- 555
- 47
Wait what? Can i get some context on that?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bleach revision summary
- Thread starter LordAizenSama
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bleach
- Status
- 4,141
- 419
AppleLord said:
u shouldnt have done that(pulling NV into bleach revision)
i can say same thing about TSB(bold)
TSB contain all powers so did we put this on (kaguya,naruto,so6p etc) page no we didnt add them even thou we have canon statements about them having them in canon manga
- 7,065
- 1,450
I got to clear some misconceptions up
>Ichigo wasn't a threat because of his will, he was a threat because of his latent power, that's even his reasoning for being a special war potential
>Having your abilities stolen =/= having your reiatsu plummet to fodder levels, saying that having the almighty stolen made Yhwach's reiatsu drop is like saying Ichigo's will drop if he gets Getsuga stolen
>Reiatsu=Ap and Dura Being off guard in Bleach is generally irrelevant if your reiatsu is high enough the 1st time we see this is when Ichigo attemps to cut an purposely off guard Kenpachi and can't even make a dent. We see this again with Ichigo vs Grimmjow 3, Aizen's betrayal, and Ichigo vs Aizen. Now we see Ichigo later able to cut down Yhwach like he's butter. This has been a consistent thing, and has only been superseded when hax was involved.
>Ichigo's will does NOT affect how strong he is but his fighting prowess, evidenced by his fight with Yammy and his encounter with Zangetsu, has had captain level or higher reiatsu for the majority of the series and still doesn't casually reiatsu crush hollows when he fights, one shots them yes, but never has he made them die from hanging around him to long subconsciously. It's not unbelievable that he trains every once in a while and even if he doesn't his skills would just be dulled slightly(He was without his powers for 17 months and his skills and instincts were still sharp) not his strength as a whole
>Ichigo is stated to be a soul king candidate if Yhwachs corpse's reiatsu doesn't hold in one of the light novels, this means that his body still had enough reiatsu to do so without Almighty when he was killed by Ichigo(You can't say for sure it returned to him upon death because we have 2 instances of abilities being stolen and kept past the person's death, Yama's and The Vice Captian of Squad 1 respectively)
>Ichigo wasn't a threat because of his will, he was a threat because of his latent power, that's even his reasoning for being a special war potential
>Having your abilities stolen =/= having your reiatsu plummet to fodder levels, saying that having the almighty stolen made Yhwach's reiatsu drop is like saying Ichigo's will drop if he gets Getsuga stolen
>Reiatsu=Ap and Dura Being off guard in Bleach is generally irrelevant if your reiatsu is high enough the 1st time we see this is when Ichigo attemps to cut an purposely off guard Kenpachi and can't even make a dent. We see this again with Ichigo vs Grimmjow 3, Aizen's betrayal, and Ichigo vs Aizen. Now we see Ichigo later able to cut down Yhwach like he's butter. This has been a consistent thing, and has only been superseded when hax was involved.
>Ichigo's will does NOT affect how strong he is but his fighting prowess, evidenced by his fight with Yammy and his encounter with Zangetsu, has had captain level or higher reiatsu for the majority of the series and still doesn't casually reiatsu crush hollows when he fights, one shots them yes, but never has he made them die from hanging around him to long subconsciously. It's not unbelievable that he trains every once in a while and even if he doesn't his skills would just be dulled slightly(He was without his powers for 17 months and his skills and instincts were still sharp) not his strength as a whole
>Ichigo is stated to be a soul king candidate if Yhwachs corpse's reiatsu doesn't hold in one of the light novels, this means that his body still had enough reiatsu to do so without Almighty when he was killed by Ichigo(You can't say for sure it returned to him upon death because we have 2 instances of abilities being stolen and kept past the person's death, Yama's and The Vice Captian of Squad 1 respectively)
- 11,203
- 2,966
Omimi said:u shouldnt have done that(pulling NV into bleach revision)AppleLord said:
i can say same thing about TSB(bold)
TSB contain all powers so did we put this on (kaguya,naruto,so6p etc) page no we didnt add them even thou we have canon statements about them having them in canon manga
Thank you for proving my point.
EDIT: It doesn't matter if the character I choose is the Simpsons or One Piece. Sasuke was the last I remember to have seen with a note. Did you miss when I said, "from all characters..." Kaguya most have all elemental manipulation as they are in Naruto's wiki.
- 555
- 47
. . . How old is that note. We really need to erase that
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #166
Ichigo and Aizen scale to Yhwach obviously.
this thread is ridiculous.
this thread is ridiculous.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Only via stuff from the novel. In the manga proper nothing gives that indication.
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #168
Ichigo killed Yhwach twice.
The novel just confirms what was already common knowledge. That Ichigo was >=Yhwach
The novel just confirms what was already common knowledge. That Ichigo was >=Yhwach
- 32,327
- 20,219
Ichigo killed a depowered Yhwach. Plenty of stuff have already been addressed and commented here. You can't just re-state what is already addressed and debunked. The overwhelming majority is agreeing they don't. Step up your game.
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #171
The arrow seals his Almighty ability. He was never nerfed in terms of actual power.
Again this is common knowledge.
Again this is common knowledge.
- 32,327
- 20,219
See the thread above, Aizen.
"The silver that appears due to the Auswählen is called "Silver of Stillness". // By mixing with the blood of the one who activated the Auswählen... // ...it interferes with all of the user's abilities. // For a single instant... // ...it eliminates them all."
Said "common knowledge" is wrong. It renders the victim powerless.
"The silver that appears due to the Auswählen is called "Silver of Stillness". // By mixing with the blood of the one who activated the Auswählen... // ...it interferes with all of the user's abilities. // For a single instant... // ...it eliminates them all."
Said "common knowledge" is wrong. It renders the victim powerless.
- 7,065
- 1,450
He was not drained of his reiatsu, his almighty was sealed for that momentMatthew Schroeder said:
2 different things
And the fact that Ichigo legit killed him earlier with the Almighty still stands
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #174
Well done matthew you debunked your own claim.
- 32,327
- 20,219
I didn't. The quote literally says that it eliminates all of the victim's abilities. Yhwach was severely depowered. Just admit it.
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #177
If he lost his actual Power power, as in reiatsu, the worlds would of started shaking again.
And abilities does not mean power. Lmao.
And abilities does not mean power. Lmao.
- 32,327
- 20,219
They can be used as synonym, and given that Yhwach was clearly depowered one way or another, it was a nerf.
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #179
Nerfed in terms of losing his almighty, yes. Otherwise? No.
Now is there anything else of actual note that needs addressing here? Any missed profiles needing changing because of the calcs?
Now is there anything else of actual note that needs addressing here? Any missed profiles needing changing because of the calcs?
- 16,953
- 12,049
I agree with Aizen here. If Ichigo killed Yhwach then he clearly scales, saying he doesn't sound pretty ridiculous if we're being honest.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Not merely his Almighty, every single ability, every single aplication of his Reiatsu.
@Knight
Read the whole thread above as to why he doesn't.
@Knight
Read the whole thread above as to why he doesn't.
- 61,177
- 14,650
I agree with Matt here
- 32,327
- 20,219
Quoting above.Galiel Elisaie said:
- 32,327
- 20,219
Seeing the scene he hit Yhwach from behind and while he was distracted and with a lower guard. That's at most a guards for a "Possibly" or "At most" in the tier, not a definite placing.
And still nothing showing Aizen scales outside of novel. Pure speculation in the part of manga alone.
And still nothing showing Aizen scales outside of novel. Pure speculation in the part of manga alone.
- 7,065
- 1,450
I already covered those points
And again it's consistently ap and dura = Reiatsu If Ichigo didn't have the reiatsu to one shot Yhwach like that, the attack would've bounced off or been generally no diffed
And again it's consistently ap and dura = Reiatsu If Ichigo didn't have the reiatsu to one shot Yhwach like that, the attack would've bounced off or been generally no diffed
- 32,327
- 20,219
Being harmed / killed by being caught of guard is like, one of the biggest tropes in all of fiction.
Characters who were stomping their opponents and tanking their blows suddenly being one-shot because they lowered their guards, characters who are godlike being easily killed in their sleep, or by their allies when they least expect.
It is clear that Ichigo would never have killed Yhwach had him been paying attention and combat-ready.
Characters who were stomping their opponents and tanking their blows suddenly being one-shot because they lowered their guards, characters who are godlike being easily killed in their sleep, or by their allies when they least expect.
It is clear that Ichigo would never have killed Yhwach had him been paying attention and combat-ready.
- 1,279
- 151
Killing somebody when they're off guard doesn't scale. He clearly stabbed him when he was shocked by Aizen, and then used Getsuga Tensho, when he was still surprised. That doesn't make him planet level, and Yhwach was still probably destroying the surface of the worlds, because he didn't have any abilities to create planets, even with Gremmy's ability.Knightofannihilation666 said:
- 32,327
- 20,219
Cough Cough
Lynchpin in a larger machine, worlds collapsing is a natural phenomena, Quincy Genocide, gg
Lynchpin in a larger machine, worlds collapsing is a natural phenomena, Quincy Genocide, gg
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #191
Mm Ichigo killed Yhwach twice once with the Almighty and one while he didnt have it. The novel also confirms that he is Yhwach level.
That post from Galiel is pretty nonsensical so I wont waste much time on it
>Being a threat to Yhwach does not necessarily put you on the level of Yhwach
Killing him twice and admitting he had no room for error fighting ichigo does.
Bleachs reiatsu functions as ap and dura. Taking hits from Yhwach and being comparable to Ichigo, aswell as from what ive heard he would of been able to replace the soulking if he had quincy dna
The rest of that wall of text was some really poor comparisons. Sakura hurting kaguya was PIS to give team 7 their sense of accomplishment as a team. The other comparisons are also silly. Beerus obviously wasnt trying to kill bulma and neither does she possess any sort of aura to defend herself.
In summation.
Ichigo kills Yhwach Twice = He>=Yhwach
Aizen is comparable to the SK in the novel and takes hits from Yhwach. As reiatsu ='s ap he also scales. Should be comparable to Ichigo aswell.
This is straightforward stuff. Take off your downplay goggles and don't waste mine, or others time.
That post from Galiel is pretty nonsensical so I wont waste much time on it
>Being a threat to Yhwach does not necessarily put you on the level of Yhwach
Killing him twice and admitting he had no room for error fighting ichigo does.
Bleachs reiatsu functions as ap and dura. Taking hits from Yhwach and being comparable to Ichigo, aswell as from what ive heard he would of been able to replace the soulking if he had quincy dna
The rest of that wall of text was some really poor comparisons. Sakura hurting kaguya was PIS to give team 7 their sense of accomplishment as a team. The other comparisons are also silly. Beerus obviously wasnt trying to kill bulma and neither does she possess any sort of aura to defend herself.
In summation.
Ichigo kills Yhwach Twice = He>=Yhwach
Aizen is comparable to the SK in the novel and takes hits from Yhwach. As reiatsu ='s ap he also scales. Should be comparable to Ichigo aswell.
This is straightforward stuff. Take off your downplay goggles and don't waste mine, or others time.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Both killings were addressed and pointed out why they don't scale. Ichigo in the novel is years after the manga ends.
The comparisons raise a valid point. You cannot grab any instance of an obviously weaker character harming or surviving blows from a much stronger being and go "They scale!!!" and ignore all context, consistency, and interpretations.
Sakura surviving hits from Kaguya and Ichigo surviving hits from Yhwach are the exact same thing. Except you act like Yhwach somehow can't hold back when it is in his personality, the tone of the series, and the entire genre of shounen do so.
It would be far, far preferable if you didn't insult others and actually addressed every argument.
The comparisons raise a valid point. You cannot grab any instance of an obviously weaker character harming or surviving blows from a much stronger being and go "They scale!!!" and ignore all context, consistency, and interpretations.
Sakura surviving hits from Kaguya and Ichigo surviving hits from Yhwach are the exact same thing. Except you act like Yhwach somehow can't hold back when it is in his personality, the tone of the series, and the entire genre of shounen do so.
It would be far, far preferable if you didn't insult others and actually addressed every argument.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Obviously not, because this is real life and not fiction. And this cat wouldn't be wielding a sword to stab you.
Point flew over your head.
Point flew over your head.
- 2,604
- 469
Well, my point is if Yhwach way stronger than Ichigo and thus doesn't scale how in the world he can slice Yhwach in half? Sorry it just doesn't make sense, you need to be at least comparable in power in order to oneshot someone even if they let heir guard down, so they still scale even they not as powerfull like a solid 7-C to an At least 7-C.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Hence my point above. Ichigo deserves a "Possibly" or "At Most", not a definitive rating. He pierced Yhwach, yes, but only when Yhwach had his guard down and wasn't even looking. This is a standard across fiction and something which this website applies in plenty of profiles. Bleach doesn't get special treatment.
- 5,232
- 708
- Thread starter
- #197
You are the one ignoring context. Seeing as you have no idea about Bleach you wouldn't know what context is.
Ive already addressed the Ichigo killing Yhwach downplay, you just keep repeating yourself.
Ichigos kills Yhwach twice, legit. No his dura doesnt drop when hes offguard hes not Goku. Reiatsu flows aslong as their is a heartbeat.
Kuuichigo also agreed with what I have already said.
Ill spell it out for you again.
Ichigo scales because he killed Yhwach twice. Was the next soulking, Yhwqch stated his power left him with no room for error, yatayata.
Reiatsu=Ap and dura. Aizen can tank strikes and Yhwachs darkness, was also considered SK material but lacked the required DNA
Simple
Ive already addressed the Ichigo killing Yhwach downplay, you just keep repeating yourself.
Ichigos kills Yhwach twice, legit. No his dura doesnt drop when hes offguard hes not Goku. Reiatsu flows aslong as their is a heartbeat.
Kuuichigo also agreed with what I have already said.
Ill spell it out for you again.
Ichigo scales because he killed Yhwach twice. Was the next soulking, Yhwqch stated his power left him with no room for error, yatayata.
Reiatsu=Ap and dura. Aizen can tank strikes and Yhwachs darkness, was also considered SK material but lacked the required DNA
Simple
- 1,099
- 47
Can I have some instance where the character bluntly killed the villain twice one by Normal means and the other without his ability and does not get a normal rating. Not saying Ichigo is as strong but he should justify for that rating not to add that many people have been saying ap=dura in bleach. Your arguement isnt making any sense to me.
- 32,327
- 20,219
"You are the one ignoring context. Seeing as you have no idea about Bleach you wouldn't know what context is."
Please refrain from this. You keep using this fallacy which is not even based on truth as if that automatically invalidates all my posts.
I know quite a lot about Bleach. Years of VsDebating and reading entire chapters throughout + extra info with scans about verse and characters when participating in said debates is not "No idea about Bleach".
No need to devolve into strawmans. They indicate you are unable to address actual arguments and inspire no confidence of others to believe in you.
"Ive already addressed the Ichigo killing Yhwach downplay, you just keep repeating yourself."
You haven't. You just said the things which were debunked, and then repeat them over and over as if they are infallible. Yhwach was depowered and unable to use any application of his reiatsu.
"No his dura doesnt drop when hes offguard hes not Goku"
Here's the thing? It doesn't make sense for Goku's durability to drop either. Nor does it make sense for hundreds of other character's durabilities to drop either. Why should it be different from Yhwach? The context of the scene is clearly "Yhwach lowered his guard and got screwed. Shouldn't have lowered his guard.".
Considering hos strength and durability comes from application of reiatsu, I say it makes sense too.
"Kuuichigo also agreed with what I have already said."
And that makes your argument legit because...? Popularity Fallacy.
"Ichigo scales because he killed Yhwach twice"
Both instances are debunked.
"Was the next soulking"
He isn't. He is a candidate for the Soul King years later he fought Yhwach. Now you are straight up lying.
"Yhwqch stated his power left him with no room for error"
Which doesn't mean they have equal power. Can mean a hundred different things.
"Reiatsu=Ap and dura"
Which can obviously be applied in lesser or larger quantities depending on the wielder.
Please refrain from this. You keep using this fallacy which is not even based on truth as if that automatically invalidates all my posts.
I know quite a lot about Bleach. Years of VsDebating and reading entire chapters throughout + extra info with scans about verse and characters when participating in said debates is not "No idea about Bleach".
No need to devolve into strawmans. They indicate you are unable to address actual arguments and inspire no confidence of others to believe in you.
"Ive already addressed the Ichigo killing Yhwach downplay, you just keep repeating yourself."
You haven't. You just said the things which were debunked, and then repeat them over and over as if they are infallible. Yhwach was depowered and unable to use any application of his reiatsu.
"No his dura doesnt drop when hes offguard hes not Goku"
Here's the thing? It doesn't make sense for Goku's durability to drop either. Nor does it make sense for hundreds of other character's durabilities to drop either. Why should it be different from Yhwach? The context of the scene is clearly "Yhwach lowered his guard and got screwed. Shouldn't have lowered his guard.".
Considering hos strength and durability comes from application of reiatsu, I say it makes sense too.
"Kuuichigo also agreed with what I have already said."
And that makes your argument legit because...? Popularity Fallacy.
"Ichigo scales because he killed Yhwach twice"
Both instances are debunked.
"Was the next soulking"
He isn't. He is a candidate for the Soul King years later he fought Yhwach. Now you are straight up lying.
"Yhwqch stated his power left him with no room for error"
Which doesn't mean they have equal power. Can mean a hundred different things.
"Reiatsu=Ap and dura"
Which can obviously be applied in lesser or larger quantities depending on the wielder.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Since when is being with a lowered guard and nerfed normal means? You contradicted yourself in the same phrase.AllanSaiyan said:
AP = Durability doesn't mean much. It comes from application of Reiatsu. Evidenced by the fact that Yhwach can clearly not apply his full strength in blows or else he would one-shot everyone everytime he attacked.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
