Bleach revision summary

[Dangai_Ichigo]

So what do we do with that ? Say that at that moment Yhwach had like I don't know 75% to 80% of his body covered in the goo when at full power he's 100% covered in that stuff. And again 5-B is for Adult Ichigo. Maybe Yhwach would be something like Moon Level at that point if he had his guard up

 

[Rocker1189]

So what do we do with that ? Say that at that moment Yhwach had like I don't know 75% to 80% of his body covered in the goo when at full power he's 100% covered in that stuff. And again 5-B is for Adult Ichigo. Maybe Yhwach would be something like Moon Level at that point if he had his guard up

How can we give Adult Ichigo 5-B without knowing if he is actually 5-B?

 

[BMWFanboy]

So what do we do with that ? Say that at that moment Yhwach had like I don't know 75% to 80% of his body covered in the goo when at full power he's 100% covered in that stuff. And again 5-B is for Adult Ichigo. Maybe Yhwach would be something like Moon Level at that point if he had his guard up

Again, how is Adult Ichigo 5-B when he appeared in one chapter where he was chilling with his friends? That still means in 10 years he got millions of times stronger, whereas in the final battle he had clearly lost major portions of his power, namely his Hollow Quincy and Fullbring powers, signified by how his True Bankai broke away to reveal his Pseudo Shikai, which isn't anywhere near 5-B.

 

[Golden_Void]

Pretty sure the purpose of the arrow was to temporarily stop his powers.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@Rocker1189 Each form of Ichigo is absurdly more powerful than the last and the thought of him being planetary as a adult is possible, also we just need to wait a few more days and see what is that short manga that Kubo is making will be and it's in January 29, which is in a freaking monday oh joy

 

[BMWFanboy]

@Rocker1189 Each form of Ichigo is absurdly more powerful than the last and the thought of him being planetary as a adult is possible, also we just need to wait a few more days and see what is that short manga that Kubo is making will be and it's in January 29, which is in a freaking monday oh joy

Wouldn't that mean Ichigo got back every power he had and got millions of times stronger, when he probably wouldn't have trained at all? You don't just get stronger by sitting in a chair unless you're Aizen

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@BMWFanboy Didn't he got them back in the Light Novels ? Also it's basically a mudane thing now, Ichigo gets a new, power Ichigo loses said power, then gets it back, then loses it again then gets a even stronger version of them, then loses said version only to get one that's even stronger than that

@Unite My Rice, it's pretty much shown that the arrow lost its effect and it's only for a few moments

 

[Golden_Void]

And they attacked him during that brief window.

 

[BMWFanboy]

@BMWFanboy Didn't he got them back in the Light Novels ? Also it's basically a mudane thing now, Ichigo gets a new, power Ichigo loses said power, then gets it back, then loses it again then gets a even stronger version of them, then loses said version only to get one that's even stronger than that
@Unite My Rice, it's pretty much shown that the arrow lost its effect and it's only for a few moments

My bad, I haven't read those. Even so, he really has no need to train, or has no further source of power left in his verse. He already has powers from every source of power possible, plus it's obvious he hasn't been training in the past decade, considering he runs a clinic and is married and has a kid.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@Rocker1189 Each form of Ichigo is absurdly more powerful than the last and the thought of him being planetary as a adult is possible, also we just need to wait a few more days and see what is that short manga that Kubo is making will be and it's in January 29, which is in a freaking monday oh joy

Wouldn't that mean Ichigo got back every power he had and got millions of times stronger, when he probably wouldn't have trained at all? You don't just get stronger by sitting in a chair unless you're Aizen

Who said that Ichigo wouldn't have trained ? He needs to protect his loved ones and how he should that ? Training that's how (No I'm not assuming that Ichigo actually trained even though he looks a little bigger when he appeared as a adult, I'm just talking from a logical standpoint)

 

[BMWFanboy]

@Rocker1189 Each form of Ichigo is absurdly more powerful than the last and the thought of him being planetary as a adult is possible, also we just need to wait a few more days and see what is that short manga that Kubo is making will be and it's in January 29, which is in a freaking monday oh joy

Wouldn't that mean Ichigo got back every power he had and got millions of times stronger, when he probably wouldn't have trained at all? You don't just get stronger by sitting in a chair unless you're Aizen

Who said that Ichigo wouldn't have trained ? He needs to protect his loved ones and how he should that ? Training that's how (No I'm not assuming that Ichigo actually trained even though he looks a little bigger when he appeared as a adult, I'm just talking from a logical standpoint)

And he has to protect them from what?

Hollows? No need, they probably die from his Reiastu

Arrancar? No need. No Arrancar that's alive will come after him now

Quincies? Nearly all Quincies are dead.

Fullbringers? Why, he hasn't done them any harm


Sure he feels the need to protect them but he doesn't have anything to protect them from, and he sure doesn't look like he's been training, he doesn't even look a little buff, but it was shown that when he became a Shinigami he started putting on lots of muscle.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@BMWFanboy, you raise a really good point, nice point

 

[BMWFanboy]

Uh, I'm bad at detecting sarcasm, so if you're being sarcastic, say so please

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@BMWFanboy and I'm bad at being actually sarcastic but I can be ironic, wait isn't Bankai Yamamoto planetary in range since it's stated that the water in all of the Soul Society was drying ? Or was it just the Sereitei part of it ?

 

[BMWFanboy]

@BMWFanboy and I'm bad at being actually sarcastic but I can be ironic, wait isn't Bankai Yamamoto planetary in range since it's stated that the water in all of the Soul Society was drying ? Or was it just the Sereitei part of it ?

Who knows how big Soul Society is? They never said it was as big as the human world/Earth, nor were Senkaimon ever referred to inter-planetary gates, plus they have the moon and sun so we can say they're dimensions that exist somewhat like this. Imo Soul Society is just one huge continent given how overly crowded Rukongai is. Only the Seretei is worth living in, they've shown multiple times Rukongai is just too stuffed.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Ichigo after the timeskip should be even weaker, as Kubo stated and we saw multiple times will to fight gives Ichigo power, but when he loses will he also loses power, and he lost will before when he lost purpose, after Yhwach was defeated the purpose to fight was no more.Ichigo did not train, even if we highball him he is on the level of Ichigo when he cut down Yhwach..

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I think there was a guide that said that the Living World and the Soul Society were about the same size, also we are shown the Soul Society outside of the Sereitei and there's a salamander crawling around or something maybe one part of the Soul Society is for the humans but another part is just for the animals

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

@BMWFanboy and I'm bad at being actually sarcastic but I can be ironic, wait isn't Bankai Yamamoto planetary in range since it's stated that the water in all of the Soul Society was drying ? Or was it just the Sereitei part of it ?

Yhwach did lose his powers for an instant and during that instant Ichigo killed him, plus we can argue that Anti Thesis was the reason why Yhwach was unable to use Almighty at that exact moment, and it also makes sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Please stop quoting each other back and forth. It turns the thread much harder to read through.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Sorry

 

[BMWFanboy]

@Galiel can you explain your Antithesis statement?

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Without a doubt Yamamoto was at least multi continent level, seeing how he was going to destroy whole SS with just his presence.So there are two interpretations.

1st Soul Society as in terms of that world's population, meaning it would wipe all life on the planet and make it barren wasteland with just his presence while holding back.

2nd interpretation They meant SS in terms of a whole planet, which would make Yamamoto planet level.

So Yamamoto was according to first interpretation multi-continent lowballed (seeing how only his presence was going to do it), moon level highballed.According to the second interpretation, Yamamoto is planet level lowballed, large planet level highballed.

Since this is VBW I'd say he is at least high 6-A | possibly 5-C.

But I still don't see why would Ichigo scale to him.As I said being a bigger threat than Yamamoto to Yhwach does not necessarily make you stronger than Yamamoto.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

About the Anti Thesis.I noticed what Hashwalth explained to Ishida.And that proved that Anti Thesis is literally self-explanatory. It seems confusing but Anti Thesis can reverse any hax or physical damage.Haschwalth said that Anti Thesis was the reason why Yhwach was unable to use Auswahlen on Ishida, his ability seems to be capable of countering damage and negating hax.

 

[AppleLord]

The Silver of Stillness Arrow ability from raw translation:

• The silver that appears due to the Auswählen is called "Silver of Stillness". // By mixing with the blood of the one who activated the Auswählen... // ...it interferes with all of the user's abilities. // For a single instant... // ...it eliminates them all.

So, yeah, Ichigo killed a fodder human level Yhwach.

From the second canon novel:

• Ichigo got his powers back within a short time

• Ichigo was going to be make into the Soul King if Yhwach's reiatsu couldn't handle it. Requirements to be a Soul King; be part Quincy (that's why Aizen couldn't be used) and have enough Reiatsu to hold the worlds together.

• Ichigo is faster than an instant with a broken bankai and without hollow power up that put's him at "Scientists have measured how long it takes to travel somewhere 'in an instant' - at least 10,000 times the speed of light," outlier. sauce

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Yhwach is almost laughing out of joy when fighting Merged Hollow + Quincy True Shikai Ichigo and even praised and called his power "Magnificient" and said that with that kind of power he would have no room for error or some weird stuff like that

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The novels are post time-skip, correct?

 

[AppleLord]

I think there was a guide that said that the Living World and the Soul Society were about the same size, also we are shown the Soul Society outside of the Sereitei and there's a salamander crawling around or something maybe one part of the Soul Society is for the humans but another part is just for the animals

And two deer...

 

[AppleLord]

The novels are post time-skip, correct?

Both. They take place right after Ichigo kills Yhwach and a few years after, before the 10 year time-skip.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So Ichigo, if he scales to Yhwach, should only scale Post-Manga.

Also, Yhwach praising his power doesn't mean he scales.

 

[AppleLord]

Shikai + Resurrection Ichigo made Soul King Yhwach activate Almighty and force him to fight seriously. Bankai Ichigo has no feats, besides Yhwach expressing fear for it.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Yhwach only used the The Almighty because Ichigo was forcing him to use, he even assured him that he didn't want to use it against Ichigo so, does Ichigo scales to a Base Soul King Yhwach ? Without the Almitghy at least

 

[AppleLord]

I think Ichigo doesn't scale to Soul King Yhwach at all. :/ Both times Ichigo hurt Yhwach were by catching him off guard or without any powers. Even without the Almighty Yhwach took a full blow from Ichigo Shikai + Resurrection with one hand. Yhwach was never hurt at all after becoming God, and the two times he did was because of PIS.

 

[AppleLord]

Mattew is right, only Post-Manga Ichigo would scale but only by statements which could be outliers too.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

A villain saying that the hero is "Impressive" while also casually battling him is a standard trope in fiction.

Darth Vader praises Luke's power in A New Hope ("The Force is strong in this one"), but that doesn't mean that A New Hope Luke is as powerful as Vader. He only reaches that point in Return of the Jedi.

All that Yhwach's statements mean is that Ichigo surpasses his expectations.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

But is that novel canon?If Ichigo has enough reiryoku to hold three worlds it doesn't mean he scales to Yhwach.First I don't know what "holding three worlds" would mean, does it mean that he needs enough reiryoku to hold three worlds together physically or to balance the souls.See there is a difference however we are incapable of comprehending how big the difference is, we can't quantify that feat scientifically.However here is what I know for sure, imbalance of souls would cause the collapse of the universe not just three planets, that's what Rukia and Urahara stated in first volumes of Bleach.But Yhwach was just going to merge three planets, Soul Society, Hueco Mundo, Material World.So he was keeping the balance of souls and preventing collapse of the universe but physically he was going to merge three planets.That's the most reasonable explanation there is.So I don't think Yhwach is 3-A, because I don't think he was holding universe physically but spiritually by controlling souls.On the other hand he was going to merge HM, SS and material world physically.Bleach is hard to keep up with but this makes sense.So by controlling the balance of Souls Ichigo is preventing a collapse of the universe, he has enough power to balance the souls, which does not necessarily mean that he scales to Yhwach who could physically merge three planets.What also bothers me is the composition of dimensions HM and SS are in.We don't know their size (it's always night in HM and never a fullmoon), we know very little about Bleach cosmology I am really struggling to understand this.So I wouldn't be surprised if editors actually wrote in tiering "possible" instead of being sure about the tier.I doubt that Ichigo scales to Yhwach physically, however it's debatable.But I am sure that Aizen does not scale to Yhwach definitely.When I saw few weeks ago the revision made on Aizen's page I was astounded and negatively surprised even though he is my favorite Bleach character.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Galiel Yes, the Novel is canon (to my knowledge)

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Why Yhwach is surprised when Ichigo attacked him here ?

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Also I remember a statement which says that SS is more dense than material world.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

@Galiel Yes, the Novel is canon (to my knowledge)

Which novel are we talking about?I never caught it's name.I read only Spirits Are Forever With You.