Bleach revision summary

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Bleach : Can't Fear Your Own World I think

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

1/3(1/2) of Ichigo>base Yhwach+Soul King+sternritters+1/3(1/2) of Ichigo would make no sense.Plus there is a statement of Yhwach after Ichigo struck him down first time "Did you think that something of this caliber could kill me?!".

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

This is what happens when you have only five chapters to finish your manga because a certain company decided to cut your story a hundred chapters short

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Bleach : Can't Fear Your Own World I think

Is it possible that Tite Kubo just draw things for it not participated in it's plot and story?Tite Kubo also animated whole BLeach series and movies, which does not make fillers and all movies canon.Just like Toriyama checked plot for most DBZ movies and animated them, still they are not canon.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Unless it's stated to be canon by the author

 

[AppleLord]

@Galiel Yes, the Novel is canon (to my knowledge)

Which novel are we talking about?I never caught it's name.I read only Spirits Are Forever With You.

There are 3 novels post-manga directed by Kubo, other authors write it for him under his supervision. The author's also commented on Kubo given them the info and material for the novels. Kubo also draw some sketches from the novels battles.

• Bleach: We Do Knot Always Love You (Post-Manga Renji & Rukia's wedding, before the final chapter and how Gotei are doing, no fighting in this one)

• Bleach: Can't Fear Your Own World I (Post-Manga a new villain that wants to kill the Soul King, and place a hybrid kid like Ichigo as the new one)

• Bleach: Can't Fear Your Own World II (Ongoing)

There are also mentions of events that happened in Spirits Are Forever With You and 13 Blades novels which make them canon too. Characters from those novels also appear in the new ones. EX: The daughter of one of the central 46 guards saw Shaz Dominos kill her father at central 46 in 13 blades novel and she appears and says this to Hisagi IIRC (I don't remember who she said too) in Bleach: Can't Fear Your Own World I.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Galied

I don't know how much Kubo was involved but I believe he did most of it but I can't remember at all. Anyway I don't want to derail this thread as Bleach Revisions need to get finished.

 

[AppleLord]

@Galied
I don't know how much Kubo was involved but I believe he did most of it but I can't remember at all. Anyway I don't want to derail this thread as Bleach Revisions need to get finished.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/6g7jzb/cant_fear_your_own_world_masterpost/

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Well, thank you, however as I said, holding three worlds is still opened up for interpretation.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I agree with Matt here.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with Matt. We can see that Yhwach is unfazed by one of Ichigo's stronger attacks when he drives his Cero into him, and the only time Ichigo got a successful hit in was when he took him be surprise. Does anybody know if the attack-negating Reiatsu thing works if the opponent isn't expecting the attack? If that's the case, then we can't scale Ichigo's surprise attack to Yhwach.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

I agree with Matt. We can see that Yhwach is unfazed by one of Ichigo's stronger attacks when he drives his Cero into him, and the only time Ichigo got a successful hit in was when he took him be surprise. Does anybody know if the attack-negating Reiatsu thing works if the opponent isn't expecting the attack? If that's the case, then we can't scale Ichigo's surprise attack to Yhwach.

It should be and I will explain why.Reiryoku is spiritual energy, reiatsu is the spiritual pressure.So you can control how much reiatsu you want to release and at which point.When Zaraki was talking to Ichigo he said that of two reiatsu's the stronger one prevails.You can choose on how much reiatsu you want to release.Sp reiryoku is always the same, but reiatsu isn't, we saw several times in Bleach when certain characters released higher portions of their reiatsu, like Gin on Skyoku Hill.

 

[KazuiK]

If you observe more will realize that the great king cero conceives cuts a body of Yhwach before him throws the great king cero back to ichigo and soon after Yhwach activates its almighty.





He uses his right arm to play back the GRC and apparently he does not use the left he had used to defend himself from the ichigo sword, it is likely that his left arm was cut or disabled by the GRC.





He uses only his right hand to defend the ichigo attack, Yhwach only uses his left arm after activating the all-powerful is likely used the almighty to recover the arm.

That's all I wanted to address is probably wrong about Yhwach's left arm but about ichigo getting Yhwach hurt with GRC I'm sure that's right.

 

[AppleLord]

• Nothing subjects he cut his arm off.

• Nothing subjects that is blood coming from Yhwach, and not his dark reiatsu to block the attack until he pushes back with his hand.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

@KazuiK We are talking about Ichigo after losing his powers.However even if we look at those scans at that moment Yhwach was not concerned at all.He was playing with Ichigo.

 

[KazuiK]

* Nothing subjects he cut his arm off.

• Nothing subjects that is blood coming from Yhwach, and not his dark reiatsu to block the attack until he pushes back with his hand.

Ichigo cut yhwach and he did not bleed, if ichigo was weaker than Yhwach it would not make sense to activate the all-powerful to defeat ichigo.

I saw someone say Dangai Ichigo = True shikai ichigo and it does not make sense when Dangai ichigo shows only his shinigami power that is his Saigo Getsuga Tenshou and True Shikai Ichigo gets access to his true power Hollow, Shinigami and Quincy, Yhwach can be se referring to the ability to use the SGT again but leave that aside can continue the summary of the review, Sorry for the inconvenience ..

 

[Damage3245]

Ichigo cut yhwach and he did not bleed, if ichigo was weaker than Yhwach it would not make sense to activate the all-powerful to defeat ichigo.

Yhwach using the Almighty isn't enough proof by itself. It can just mean Yhwach deciding to use more power than is needed in order to drive Ichigo to despair.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@KazuiK The more accurate scaling is saying that True Shikai Ichigo is equal to Mugetsu Ichigo

 

[AppleLord]

Dangai Ichigo uses all of his power since he lost everything including his Hollow power as a result of using the Final Getsuga Tensho.

I'm very sure that Yhwach told Ichigo that "...up to this point you have been fighting with a fraction of your power."

 

[AppleLord]

@KazuiK The more accurate scaling is saying that True Shikai Ichigo is equal to Mugetsu Ichigo

Not Mugetsu, but Dangai Bankai. Mugetsu is a technique not form.

 

[AppleLord]

Ichigo cut yhwach and he did not bleed, if ichigo was weaker than Yhwach it would not make sense to activate the all-powerful to defeat ichigo.
I don't see a cut anywhere in Yhwach's body.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

@KazuiK



Dangai Ichigo without a doubt is most powerful version of Ichigo.Even if you don't believe that dangai Ichigo and Aizen were hyperdimensional at that point due to the detailed explanation Aizen gave, it's not hard to prove that Dangai Ichigo>new Bankai Ichigo even if we do not accept Aizen's detailed explanation.Here are reasons why:

1. Dangai Ichigo was stated not to be shinigami anymore, he used all of his powers to transcend shinigami.Yhwach later stated that Ichigo regained the power he used to defeat Aizen Sosuke.That doesn't mean new Bankai Ichigo is stronger than dangai Ichigo, it simply means that Ichigo has regained powers he used to transcend the level of shinigami and hollows for some time.

2. Orihime and Rukia were able to sense New Bankai Ichigo and his reiatsu, because of Dangai Ichigo's transcendent level other beings were unable to sense his reiatsu.

3.Similar to first, dangai Ichigo was neither shinigami nor hollow nor Quincy, he used powers of those three to transcend to a new level.

4. Some would argue that EoS Aizen is also more powerful than Hogyoku Aizen during his fight with Ichigo, which would also be wrong.Urahara, and Renji who stated this were pointing at Pre Hogyoku Aizen, Renji was not there to witness the power of Aizen or Ichigo, and Urahara even though he arrived in the last moments was unable to feel Aizen's reiatsu previously, so they are incapable of judging his power back then because they couldn't sense it, therefore they can't compare them.

 

[Rocker1189]

Ichigo cut yhwach and he did not bleed, if ichigo was weaker than Yhwach it would not make sense to activate the all-powerful to defeat ichigo.

There is no cut on Yhwach's body.

 

[KazuiK]

the idea of transcending that kubo refers is the work of a German who says that to transcend would be to surpass the naive social being that the man is that in bleach would be the shinigami, this German would be the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche and the sleeve has several references the Your works.

Ichigo was never said to be transcendent, the old zangetsu himself claims that he was only using a fraction of his power.

 

[Rocker1189]

snip

You bring up a lot of good points.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

So you are just going to ignore everything I said?Every proof?Based on your own interpretation of what transcendent means?Lol it has nothing to do with social status.Transcendence is just a word used in many different contexts.And Bleach has nothing to do with naive social status.They were talking about power.And they even said that.

 

[AppleLord]

Bleach Novel got updated today: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/698587

Ginjo Bankai vs Candice coming next...

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@KazuiK


Dangai Ichigo without a doubt is most powerful version of Ichigo.Even if you don't believe that dangai Ichigo and Aizen were hyperdimensional at that point due to the detailed explanation Aizen gave, it's not hard to prove that Dangai Ichigo>new Bankai Ichigo even if we do not accept Aizen's detailed explanation.Here are reasons why:

1. Dangai Ichigo was stated not to be shinigami anymore, he used all of his powers to transcend shinigami.Yhwach later stated that Ichigo regained the power he used to defeat Aizen Sosuke.That doesn't mean new Bankai Ichigo is stronger than dangai Ichigo, it simply means that Ichigo has regained powers he used to transcend the level of shinigami and hollows for some time.

2. Orihime and Rukia were able to sense New Bankai Ichigo and his reiatsu, because of Dangai Ichigo's transcendent level other beings were unable to sense his reiatsu.

3.Similar to first, dangai Ichigo was neither shinigami nor hollow nor Quincy, he used powers of those three to transcend to a new level.

4. Some would argue that EoS Aizen is also more powerful than Hogyoku Aizen during his fight with Ichigo, which would also be wrong.Urahara, and Renji who stated this were pointing at Pre Hogyoku Aizen, Renji was not there to witness the power of Aizen or Ichigo, and Urahara even though he arrived in the last moments was unable to feel Aizen's reiatsu previously, so they are incapable of judging his power back then because they couldn't sense it, therefore they can't compare them.

Did you forgot that characters can get stronger ?


The Power that Ichigo used to defeat Aizen Sousuke was The Final Getsuga Tenshou

 

[KazuiK]

I was wrong when I said that ichigo was not transcendental. It is ridiculous to say that Dangai Ichigo = True Shikai Ichigo, when ichigo actually had his power suppressed all the time until he discovered his true power. Forget I was here, please continue the summary and set me aside.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Where did I saw this before ?



Wait, I think I know this is from



Mugetsu Ichigo = True Shikai Ichigo


When Ichigo became a "Transcendent" he only transcendent Shinigamis and Hollows. True Shikai Ichigo transcends Shinigamis, Hollows and Quincies !

 

[Damage3245]

> When Ichigo became a "Transcendent" he only transcendent Shinigamis and Hollows. True Shikai Ichigo transcends Shinigamis, Hollows and Quincies !

That's pretty much just a head-canon.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@Damage3245 Well, the whole transcendent thing was so vague that even a little bit of head cannon is needed

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Uh how big is one sea ? Or ocean in some translations

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

@Dangai Ichigo

How i any of that relative?Who became stronger?Orihime?Did she become transcendent?Stronger than all characters previously?Or Rukia?Aizen said himself that bankai is limit of shinigami, and no matter how much they train they will just become stronger on that level, they will never transcend it.Which Aizen and Ichigo did, which is why they were unable to feel their reiatsu or affect them.Yhwach stated that Ichigo regained the powers he used to defeat Aizen Sosuke, Ichigo used powers he lost to transcend those levels on a limited amount of time.New Bankai Ichigo did not transcend anything, he was simply hollow+shinigami+quincy.Nowhere was it stated that he transcended them, but what was stated is that he had them, not transcended them.Nothing later in the series contradicts what I said.



Plus if we take into consideration Aizen's explanation Ichigo FGT would be low 6D or tier low 1-C and Aizen would be the same tier seeing how he reached that dimension of existence after Ichigo struck him down.If we take this explanation into consideration it would be even more ridiclous to claim that new bankai Ichigo who is high 6-A tier would even compare or anything else in Bleach, seeing how next character in line would be high 5-B at best.Now I am not claiming this as something ppl should incorporate into pages on this wiki, because they apparently do not base tiering of characters on one detailed explanation.But this alone just points out how two of them would be above anything in BLeach if we gave benefit of the doubt to Aizen and and explanation he gave.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@Galiel

You clearly are forgetting that Aizen bullshits a lot of things, also Orihime's powers are Trancendent in nature, because they apparently step in the realm of the gods, and she almost is never shown to get blitzed in the series, the only time she herself shows that she got blitzed is when Ichigo appeared in front of her shield without her seeing it. Orihime also could pay attention to every single detail in the Vasto Lorde Ichigo vs Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra while Uryu couldn't see a damn thing

And both Rukia and Renji trained in the Soul Palace to get their Bankai, a place that it's completely different from the Soul Society, a place where they had a completely different and special type of training there.

So if you want to bullshit me that they cannot get stronger then get the hell out of here, if a character shows growth in strength then you can't dismiss it because a liar like Aizen told it was impossible

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Dude she was unable to sense reiatsu ebfore, why would she be able to sense reiatsu now?You can't cast character statements just because they do not suit you.They could not sense them because they were transcendentTranscending something means becoming more powerful than it at least.That includes all hollows and shinigami in previous arcs, are you telling me that Rukia and Orihime are more powerful than Yamamoto?Or Urahara?That's bullshit.Orihime has been beaten by two fodder arrancars and she was nt strong enough to defeat seventh seat of squad 7 who easily shattered her.They did not train enough to get on the level of Aizen and Ichigo from back them, on level Aizen said he can only get to with Hogyoku.You are speculating, your whole claim is speculation with no proof.Every proof I provided you dismissed with your assumptions, you literally made things up.That's whole new level of fodder debating debating.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Can we calm down here please?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I'm assuming because Aizen saying that once you hit a certain limit is greatest bullshit I ever heard in my life, I'm not saying they're stronger than Yamamoto, **** no. I'm saying that the whole limitation and dimensional thing is just something that Aizen was making up but the whole transcendent thing is iffy because Bankai Ichigo is nowhwere near Aizen's level yet when Aizen evolved Ichigo could still sense him.

The only thing that backs up the limitation argument is the potential of the character, Ichigo has a **** ton of potential and once he got that power back Ichigo is showing off his power like Aizen did in front of Tatsuki and the others


He brought his power down to their level of awareness

That's why they are still sensing Ichigo !

 

[Zezu1995]

can someone link me a scan of toshiros lifting feat i dont remember seeing it

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

@Dangai Ichigo I don't even want to discuss these things with people like you who deny the obvious things because they do not suit them.You need to prove that Aizen is wrong, but you can't lol, he knows about those things more than you and I.