Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

[Cyberblader90]

does anyone have arc's links?
need them. friend woke up

 

[AKUTO123]

old arguments that where debunked hold no weight if nothing new is brought up, this goes for all verses

I see that old and refuted and even refuted issues are used many times, so I said. because if it is not refuted according to someone else, it can be used as desired. Anyway, there is no need to go beyond the subject.

 

[Cyberblader90]

What are you debunking here, it is stated as light

Not debunking, agreeing

 

[Arcker123]

Glad we agree to that

 

[Cyberblader90]

my standing points rn:

Second opinion on the sfx
Reflection issue
Heat issue

 

[Cyberblader90]

is torsin on?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Heat generation is literally a point used frequently support a beam is a laser lmao...

 

[Arcker123]

Alright I asked Arc to translate what the background sound means since he knows japanese and this is what he had to say.

Basically to summarize its translates to "Bachin" which is usually used as an effect for a sword moving through the air at high speed. So it is an effect of Renji's sword moving to block or reflect Mask's attack than the sound generated from Mask's attack hitting his sword.

 

[AKUTO123]

Why heat is a problem can not be an attack anyway without an effect?

 

[Cyberblader90]

no, burning is more just not a direct anti feat.

my issue regarding heat was explained here:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-pts-speed-downgrade.112335/post-3573996

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The heat presented in the scene would dictate everything around needing to burn, not just the hit target. this is circumvented via the beam being concentrated.

You’re point isn’t a valid point at all. We don’t do this for any laser feats.

 

[AKUTO123]

no, burning is more just not a direct anti feat.

my issue regarding heat was explained here:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-pts-speed-downgrade.112335/post-3573996

I don't think what is written here makes any sense

 

[Cyberblader90]

thats something that would need to discussed then. Can be separate time.

Not dropping reflection. Far too many issues with that argument

 

[Cyberblader90]

I don't think what is written here makes any sense

How so

 

[AKUTO123]

How so

I mean, in most similar incidents in fiction, you didn't get what you said. So I think it doesn't make much sense to be like this or not.

 

[YukaSama4]

thats something that would need to discussed then. Can be separate time.

Not dropping reflection. Far too many issues with that argument

if I'm not mistaken you are arguing for a new requirement for light beams and I think you should make another thread to get it accepted firstly, so let's move to the reflection point?

 

[Cyberblader90]

I think its a consequence of the current light standards not actually reflecting what makes light as fast as it is irl.

 

[Cyberblader90]

if I'm not mistaken you are arguing for a new requirement for light beams and I think you should make another thread to get it accepted firstly, so let's move to the reflection point?

basically heat can be dismissed for now.

 

[Cyberblader90]

so here is the site translator on the sound thing, though they note they have no experience with sfx
Official Translations Requests Thread (New forum) | VS Battles Wiki Forum

Still waiting on my friend

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

thats something that would need to discussed then. Can be separate time.

Okay I guess?

Not dropping reflection. Far too many issues with that argument

“Far too many issues” there isn’t any issue at all. You’re looking at random things on Reddit and YouTube and saying “This doesn’t look like this picture”. Facts are Mask shot an attack at Renji he calls a beam of light and Renji proceeds to divert it away. This meets the requirement of reflection off a non magical device.

 

[Arcker123]

Also zanpakuto are 100% reflective

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Literally everything you stated isn’t on the light page so far. Because again you’re over analyzing everything and assuming the mangaka is a physicist.

There is a reason the page lists a few anti feats against light because it’s only being analyzed at a base level of what makes light this fast.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i know they are reflective.

Im providing citations on how reflection works. Diverting/repelling is not inherently reflection

The blade does not reflect it like how light works

Here is an example for parallel:

Here the blade seemingly reflects what is called light (the arrow). A sound is produced. Next panel after is key. Notice how it reflects the actual natural light from the doorway. Kubo has at least a basic understanding of reflection

 

[Cyberblader90]

Literally everything you stated isn’t on the light page so far. Because again you’re over analyzing everything and assuming the mangaka is a physicist.

There is a reason the page lists a few anti feats against light because it’s only being analyzed at a base level of what makes light this fast.

Reflection is on the page as one of the requirements. Without it, the light meets at best 1

 

[Cyberblader90]

if you want, get admin input on how the wiki defines reflection

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Which it does reflect. You are aware the character was literally stated to have diverted the beam yes?

Your argument is “it’s not suppose to look like that according to the book” Which is the entire point of my previous post.

 

[Arcker123]

The jugram argument is a false equivalency, They lights are two different colors and obviously they would not look the same

 

[Cyberblader90]

The jugram argument is a false equivalency, They lights are two different colors and obviously they would not look the same

Jugram was to show kubo knows what reflection is and how he draws it

 

[Cyberblader90]

Which it does reflect. You are aware the character was literally stated to have diverted the beam yes?

Your argument is “it’s not suppose to look like that according to the book” Which is the entire point of my previous post.

Literally semantics, something of which i already tackled in the first 3 pages
as akm summarizes here, that doesnt mean literal reflection
Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade | Page 2 | VS Battles Wiki Forum

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Jugram was to show kubo knows what reflection is and how he draws it

That was done to emphasize that it was day time meaning Yhwach had finally awaken

 

[Cyberblader90]

That was done to emphasize that it was day time meaning Yhwach had finally awaken

That could be a narrative intention for it. That is irrelevant to my point. My point is simply:
Kubo knows how to draw reflection when it happens

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Literally semantics, something of which i already tackled in the first 3 pages
as akm summarizes here, that doesnt mean literal reflection
Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade | Page 2 | VS Battles Wiki Forum

What are you even on about here? Just because you don’t know what the light page means by reflect isn’t my problem. Tackling something means nothing when it’s literally wrong.

“As far as I can see, the one supporting thing about this "beam of light" is only that it got repelled by a metallic weapon. Which could be also due to the motion of the metallic sword, and the statement would hold true even if he used his bare hands to repel it. Doesn't necessarily mean reflection. But okay, I won't argue this point.”

 

[Cyberblader90]

"Deflect doesn't mean reflect either. "Oh he repelled/deflected my attack" does not mean "he reflected my attack with the same angle of reflection as the angle of incidence" in the context that we use for light"

If you want semantics sure. Translation for the raw:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3572284

"repelled"
Def: drive or force (an attack or attacker) back or away.
This does not mean reflect like a mirror or similar surface

 

[Torsin]

It's the same reflection both in Jugram and Mask's scenario

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Not really
notice jugram goes at four angles
specular reflection

For mask, your comparison would work if it started as the center piece, then branched out, but we know it started as a star, then changed shape a bit
Thats more so diffusion, though as I have stated prior, it doesnt follow that

 

[Alive90Achilles]

• Travel straight
• Does not explode, simply burns / vaporizes what comes in contact

Reflection is on the page as one of the requirements. Without it, the light meets at best 1

Care to explain what excuse you have rn?

 

[Cyberblader90]

those are literally not the main conditions. read the actual page. they dont prove light speed

 

[YukaSama4]

That could be a narrative intention for it. That is irrelevant to my point. My point is simply:
Kubo knows how to draw reflection when it happens

I get your point, but just because Kubo made it there doesn't mean that every time a reflection will happen we will see it that way or it won't be a real reflection, I don't think this should be used as a main argument to be honest but let's talk about it
when Mask fired his light beam attack, we know that its always been in star shape, but when it hits the sword what happened? it literally reflecteit in the same way the arrow reflected on jugrams sword

 

[Cyberblader90]

has to be any of these:

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
• The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources
• It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera