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This is a thread I've wanted to make for a while since the official translation of all of the Can't Fear Your Own World novels were released. It took me a while to go through the novels and gather all of the relevant excerpts.
Some of these we already use on the profiles, some of them I haven't seen discussed before. I don't think most people will have read the novels so that's not unexpected. I've included the page number for the excerpts provided below.
Note: For the statements from the light novel I will be ignoring generic statements such as “lightning-fast strikes” since this is the most common type of hyperbole in fiction and comes up frequently even when the speed of the character has nothing to do with actual lightning. These passages should almost never be used to upgrade or downgrade characters without further evidence.
Second Note: Keep drama to a minimum. Nobody enjoys coming into a thread and seeing reaction images and people talking about "looking forward to the drama". The sole purpose of this thread is to introduce new evidence that could help improve the accuracy of our profiles.
Her attack is one of her Quincy arrows, a Heilig Pfeil, which is imbued with electricity/lightning and is described as being slower than an actual lightning bolt but still quick enough to be described as “lightning speed.” So low-end lightning-fast attack speed for Candice which is currently accepted on her profile.
It is also pointed out in this section that lightning itself is far below the speed of light, and these arrows are even slower than normal lightning.
It is described that even if he could “just barely sidestep it”, he wouldn’t be unharmed by it passing him so closely so instead of dodging it he summons his sword in order to disperse the lightning-enhanced arrow.
The takeaway from this is that while Ginjo could have dodged the arrow, it still would have been a close thing so he chose to deflect it rather than get out of the way.
We get another instance of Ginjo’s reactions to lightning in Volume 2, Page 45 - 46. After Candice’s Electrocution attack is diverted into a tree grown by Tsukishima, Ginjo deflects offshoots of lightning that come his way with his sword like he did before.
Candice’s Electrocution seemingly works by extending a bolt of lightning into the sky and a real bolt of cloud-to-ground lightning strikes the target. This is backed up in the original manga where Candice uses cloud-to-ground lightning to attack Kenpachi.
Also, when Candices uses her Electrocution attack on Ichigo in the manga, there is a burst of cloud-to-ground lightning.
More supportive evidence for it being cloud-to-ground lightning is that Tsukishima blocks it by growing a tree to enormous height with his ability in order to redirect the bolt of lightning. He doesn't make some kind of wall in front of himself to block a head-on attack; the size of the tree is specified.
Grimmjow is said to be moving his body “exactly like one of Candice’s bolts of lightning” and the passage from the second page gives indication towards Grimmjow moving there at high speed so that the fighters there barely have time to prepare themselves and identify Grimmjow.
So this is movement speed from Grimmjow that is seemingly comparable in speed to a lightning bolt, and his appearance on the battlefield is still described as “sudden” and he arrived “before Ginjo and the others could prepare themselves and identify him.”
The ability that Tokinada uses against him is Gin Ichimaru’s Shinso; which is a blade that in its Bankai form can extend at a speed of Mach 500, or Mach 1000 with a special technique. The Shikai version of this, which is what Tokinada uses, would be even slower than this. This speed is faster than Hisagi can detect/react to, and the attack pierces him. The speed of this attack is definitely supposed to be significant in-verse since according to Gin his Zanpakuto is the "fastest Zanpakuto" which is supported by characters struggling with its speed.
This is as blatant an anti-feat as you can get; Shinso is faster than Hisagi’s reactions.
Hirako was in the battle as well, and he “narrowly dodged” the lightning, and was clearly in danger from it since he broke out in a cold sweat.
This prompts him to get even further out of the way.
Hirako’s battle instincts tell him that he cannot dodge this less than Mach 500 attack with his eyes closed.
This seems consistent to me with him only narrowly being able to avoid lightning-speed attacks earlier.
Tokinada’s attacks with Ryujin Jakka are noted to be slower than Shinso since opponents estimating the speed of the spreading flames would end up being “cleaved by the lightning-fast strike”.
It is also noted that even the likes of Shunsui would be “avoiding the blow by a thin margin” when facing what they thought was an attack from Shinso.
Multiple characters reactions when facing a less than Mach 500 attack appear to be consistent; Shunsui and Hirako all struggle to barely dodge the attacks, and Hisagi is incapable of even keeping up with it.
As noted on Candice’s profile right now, Candice can seemingly transform herself into a bolt of lightning to give herself a speed boost and evade Kenpachi’s attack.
I’m not suggesting that Kenpachi is too slow to keep up with lightning because this version of Kenpachi was weakened and badly damaged after his fight with Gremmy, but it is telling for Candice’s speed that her normal movement is too slow to evade Kenpachi so she moves as lightning in order to enhance her speed.
He is noted as either being fast enough to react to lightning, or not being fast enough to react to lightning and simply predicting his opponent’s attacks. Either one of these means that his abilities in battle are noteworthy.
This part isn’t as hard evidence as the rest of the thread, but I needed to include it since it could be either the possibility that he is moving fast enough to react to lightning or he’s not, but if Tokinada is supposed to be far faster than the speed of lightning, then it would be nonsensical to bring up the possibility that his reactions are slower than lightning.
I haven't attached proposals for specific changes in ratings right away because what I want to make sure of first is that my interpretation of these passages from the light novels is accurate and others on here agree with it. If we can establish that, then we can move on to deciding what ratings need to be changed to make our profiles more accurate.
Some of these we already use on the profiles, some of them I haven't seen discussed before. I don't think most people will have read the novels so that's not unexpected. I've included the page number for the excerpts provided below.
Note: For the statements from the light novel I will be ignoring generic statements such as “lightning-fast strikes” since this is the most common type of hyperbole in fiction and comes up frequently even when the speed of the character has nothing to do with actual lightning. These passages should almost never be used to upgrade or downgrade characters without further evidence.
Second Note: Keep drama to a minimum. Nobody enjoys coming into a thread and seeing reaction images and people talking about "looking forward to the drama". The sole purpose of this thread is to introduce new evidence that could help improve the accuracy of our profiles.
#1 Candice’s Arrows
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 2, Page 31, Candice Catnipp - a former Sternritter - launches an ambush on Ginjo Kugo.Her attack is one of her Quincy arrows, a Heilig Pfeil, which is imbued with electricity/lightning and is described as being slower than an actual lightning bolt but still quick enough to be described as “lightning speed.” So low-end lightning-fast attack speed for Candice which is currently accepted on her profile.
It is also pointed out in this section that lightning itself is far below the speed of light, and these arrows are even slower than normal lightning.
#2 Ginjo’s Reactions
In the same section where Candice launches her attack up above, we also get a description on Ginjo’s reaction to it.It is described that even if he could “just barely sidestep it”, he wouldn’t be unharmed by it passing him so closely so instead of dodging it he summons his sword in order to disperse the lightning-enhanced arrow.
The takeaway from this is that while Ginjo could have dodged the arrow, it still would have been a close thing so he chose to deflect it rather than get out of the way.
We get another instance of Ginjo’s reactions to lightning in Volume 2, Page 45 - 46. After Candice’s Electrocution attack is diverted into a tree grown by Tsukishima, Ginjo deflects offshoots of lightning that come his way with his sword like he did before.
#3 Candice’s Electrocution
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 2, Page 32, Candice Catnipp - a former Sternritter - appears in the midst of Ginjo Kugo, Shūkurō Tsukishima, and Giriko Kutsuzawa and uses her Electrocution attack to try and hit them with genuine lightning.Candice’s Electrocution seemingly works by extending a bolt of lightning into the sky and a real bolt of cloud-to-ground lightning strikes the target. This is backed up in the original manga where Candice uses cloud-to-ground lightning to attack Kenpachi.
Also, when Candices uses her Electrocution attack on Ichigo in the manga, there is a burst of cloud-to-ground lightning.
More supportive evidence for it being cloud-to-ground lightning is that Tsukishima blocks it by growing a tree to enormous height with his ability in order to redirect the bolt of lightning. He doesn't make some kind of wall in front of himself to block a head-on attack; the size of the tree is specified.
#4 Grimmjow’s Movement Speed
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 2, Page 57 - 58, Grimmjow arrives on the battlefield via a Garganta portal far to the west of the rest of the fighters.Grimmjow is said to be moving his body “exactly like one of Candice’s bolts of lightning” and the passage from the second page gives indication towards Grimmjow moving there at high speed so that the fighters there barely have time to prepare themselves and identify Grimmjow.
So this is movement speed from Grimmjow that is seemingly comparable in speed to a lightning bolt, and his appearance on the battlefield is still described as “sudden” and he arrived “before Ginjo and the others could prepare themselves and identify him.”
#5 Hisagi’s Reactions
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 3, Page 116, Shūhei Hisagi is facing off against Tokinada who has the ability to copy Zanpakuto abilities.The ability that Tokinada uses against him is Gin Ichimaru’s Shinso; which is a blade that in its Bankai form can extend at a speed of Mach 500, or Mach 1000 with a special technique. The Shikai version of this, which is what Tokinada uses, would be even slower than this. This speed is faster than Hisagi can detect/react to, and the attack pierces him. The speed of this attack is definitely supposed to be significant in-verse since according to Gin his Zanpakuto is the "fastest Zanpakuto" which is supported by characters struggling with its speed.
This is as blatant an anti-feat as you can get; Shinso is faster than Hisagi’s reactions.
#6 Hirako’s Reactions Part 1
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 2, Page 199, Candices fires a barrage of her near-lightning speed arrows at the giant Hollow Ikomikidomoe, followed up by her Electrocution which as covered before is real lightning.Hirako was in the battle as well, and he “narrowly dodged” the lightning, and was clearly in danger from it since he broke out in a cold sweat.
This prompts him to get even further out of the way.
#7 Hirako’s Reactions Part 2
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 3, Page 116, Hirako Shinji fights against Tokinada who can copy Zanpakuto abilities. One of these abilities is Gin Ichimaru’s Shinso which we know from up above that it extends at less than Mach 500.Hirako’s battle instincts tell him that he cannot dodge this less than Mach 500 attack with his eyes closed.
This seems consistent to me with him only narrowly being able to avoid lightning-speed attacks earlier.
#8 Ryūjin Jakka & Shinso
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 3, Page 127, Hisagi hears about how Kyoka Suigetsu was used to trick the Shinigami Captains by making some attacks appear like other attacks.Tokinada’s attacks with Ryujin Jakka are noted to be slower than Shinso since opponents estimating the speed of the spreading flames would end up being “cleaved by the lightning-fast strike”.
It is also noted that even the likes of Shunsui would be “avoiding the blow by a thin margin” when facing what they thought was an attack from Shinso.
Multiple characters reactions when facing a less than Mach 500 attack appear to be consistent; Shunsui and Hirako all struggle to barely dodge the attacks, and Hisagi is incapable of even keeping up with it.
#9 Candice’s Movement vs. Kenpachi
Going back to the original manga, chapter 580; Candice displays a movement technique to dodge out of the way of Kenpachi’s attack.As noted on Candice’s profile right now, Candice can seemingly transform herself into a bolt of lightning to give herself a speed boost and evade Kenpachi’s attack.
I’m not suggesting that Kenpachi is too slow to keep up with lightning because this version of Kenpachi was weakened and badly damaged after his fight with Gremmy, but it is telling for Candice’s speed that her normal movement is too slow to evade Kenpachi so she moves as lightning in order to enhance her speed.
#10 Tokinada’s Reactions
In Can’t Fear Your Own World, Volume 2, Page 195 - 196, Tokinada deflects a lightning attack from an assassin.He is noted as either being fast enough to react to lightning, or not being fast enough to react to lightning and simply predicting his opponent’s attacks. Either one of these means that his abilities in battle are noteworthy.
This part isn’t as hard evidence as the rest of the thread, but I needed to include it since it could be either the possibility that he is moving fast enough to react to lightning or he’s not, but if Tokinada is supposed to be far faster than the speed of lightning, then it would be nonsensical to bring up the possibility that his reactions are slower than lightning.
Conclusion
- Candice Catnipp fires attacks at lightning-speed and near-lightning speed.
- Ginjo Kugo and Hirako Shinji could narrowly dodge these attacks.
- Ginjo Kugo opted to deflect the attacks instead of narrowly dodging them.
- Grimmjow’s movement speed is compared to lightning, and it is difficult for others such as Ginjo Kugo to keep up with him.
- The less than Mach 500 speed Shinso is too fast for Shūhei Hisagi to keep up with.
- The less thanMach 500 speed Shinso is difficult for Hirako Shinji to dodge.
- The less thanMach 500 speed Shinso is implied to be particularly fast among Tokinada’s attacks, since opponents anticipating the speed of Ryujin Jakka could be struck by the even faster Shinso.
- Candice required an enhancement to lightning speed in order to dodge a weakened Kenpachi’s attack.
- While Tokinada is capable of reflecting a lightning-based attack, it is suggested to be possible for Tokinada to have slower than lightning speed reactions. Either way, him having the capability to react to lightning is presented as a notable feat.
I haven't attached proposals for specific changes in ratings right away because what I want to make sure of first is that my interpretation of these passages from the light novels is accurate and others on here agree with it. If we can establish that, then we can move on to deciding what ratings need to be changed to make our profiles more accurate.
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