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Bleach: Light Novel Statements and Feats

Damage3245 said:
The passage from the novels says "There are many zanpakuto powers that increase in ability according to the spiritual pressure of its user."

Not "all zanpakuto abilities."

It is noted in the light novel some of the abilities that Tokinada uses which are increased, and some of them which are decreased. The safest amount of assumptions involved is that we don't assume there is a change for an ability if it has not been confirmed for us.

Especially since Tokinada also uses multiple abilities at the same time which decreases his effectiveness with each of them; meaning just as it is possible that Shinso could get a buff, it could also get a debuff when he's using it.
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In conclusion, we do not favor either side and move on to the next discussion.
 
The Aizen thread is concluded just needs application iirc, the GRC thread is concluded I just need to finish updated our scaling (aka the entire TYBW **** me), LS Mask is concluding (give the remaining tagged staff a chance to comment if they don't we can just end it at it's current vote).
 
I don't see how this affects scaling? Characters already scale higher than these via the manga. It's just a bunch of random lightning dodging shit.

Grimmjow statement doesn't say he's lightning speed here? That sentence is literally just a flowery way of saying he's moving quickly like some mad beast towards candice he's not literally “bulldozing” through lightning.

Gin’s thing isn't even said to be mach 500 here? Which a weaker Ichigo several arcs ago dodged. Is Karakura Ichigo > EOS Blood War characters?

Tokinada has enough reiatsu to maintain KS, use Ryujin Jakka, Hanatoro and more simultaneously. It's even explained why Hisagi couldn't dodge it.

Hisagi already also fought Aura whilst his speed was limited by the limiter and he kept up fine with 30% of his speed and power. Aura herself scales to Urahara.
 
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@Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye; that's okay, you don't have to think anything differently about the verse.

But I personally believe that there are inconsistencies between our ratings on the profiles, some of the justifications that are there currently, and the new information from the novel.

I'll get into specific proposals I have for characters tomorrow.
 
Honestly, if the Mask calc gets accepted doesn’t that defeat the entire purpose of this thread? Kinda feels completely unnecessary to make a speed thread when we currently have another being discussed Damage
 
Might as well do it here, this is a general Bleach speed CRT, I know damage needs time to put together proposals. I wouldn’t mind waiting for the LS thread to conclude first.
 
Damage3245 said:
But I personally believe that there are inconsistencies between our ratings on the profiles, some of the justifications that are there currently, and the new information from the novel.
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Yeah, the inaccurate ratings should be replaced with these informations from novels
 
SilentBob34 said:
Honestly, if the Mask calc gets accepted doesn’t that defeat the entire purpose of this thread? Kinda feels completely unnecessary to make a speed thread when we currently have another being discussed Damage
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No, quite the opposite.

SilentBob34 said:
Doesn’t the manga take precedence over the novels? There’s a lot more in the manga pointing at faster speed than the novels
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Yes, but context is important.

Two pieces of evidence contradicting each other aren't judged for their accuracy solely on which piece of medium they come from. The reliability and consistency of the evidence are both relevant as well.
 
Damage3245 said:
No, quite the opposite.



Yes, but context is important.

Two pieces of evidence contradicting each other aren't judged for their accuracy solely on which piece of medium they come from. The reliability and consistency of the evidence are both relevant as well.
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I’ll get more to it later, but the Gin point is automatically invalid since Tokinada can only copy Shikai abilities. Unless you can prove he can copy bankai abilities that point is moot

idk if you forgot but only Gin’s bankai moves at Mach 500 and faster
 
Also the Candice point doesn’t really seem to hold either since she never once tried to turn into lightning against Ichigo or anyone in the novels. Seems more like a one time off thing since if her normal speed couldn’t keep up with a weakened Kenpachi then there’s no reason she shouldn’t have used it against anyone else, especially Ichigo
 
AppleLord said:
If we have 4 feats/outliers, 2 anti-feats, which takes priority for scaling?
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A generic question like that is difficult to give an accurate answer to; you have to know the details around why the feats are the way they are, why certain feats are outliers and some aren't, any why the anti-feats are anti-feats.


But I'll get into my proposals in detail when I have time tomorrow. The initial purpose of this thread was to make people aware of the existence of these statements, whether or not you agree with them.
 
Damage3245 said:
A generic question like that is difficult to give an accurate answer to; you have to know the details around why the feats are the way they are, why certain feats are outliers and some aren't, any why the anti-feats are anti-feats.


But I'll get into my proposals in detail when I have time tomorrow. The initial purpose of this thread was to make people aware of the existence of these statements, whether or not you agree with them.
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The problem is some of your points are inaccurate. Like the Gin and one of the Candice points I’m gonna check for more though
 
I entirely forgot that Tokinada copies Shikai lmao. Shinso is the Shikai, Kamishini no Yari is the Bankai. So the Shinso point is null.

Candice still merits detailed discussion tho
 
Also, as always have to point out, the speed of guns swords is unreliable as he himself states that the speed he gave was fake
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
What's wrong with Candice?
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I think it’s the fact that several people I guess barely reacted to her lightning and the fact that she turns into lightning in the manga to dodge Kenpachi’s swing. The problem is though she only did that against Kenpachi so Damage is proposing her normal speed wasn’t enough to dodge him yet she never once did it again in the manga or novels even against faster opponents.

the people barely dodging her lightning point also doesn’t seem to hold too well given Shunsui wasn’t able to dodge a bullet but he’s far faster than them
 
Actually since this is a speed thread, I know there’s gonna be more brought up but whatever happened to the calc of lilttoto, Meninas, and Giselle dodging Candice’s lighting from pretty much point blank?
 
Cyberblader90 said:
speaking of, dont we need to recalc mimihagi's flight, liotto dodging the Auswählen, etc
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Yes and also the soul king things going down and attacking soul society.it’d give like MHS+ results even lowballing everything to the extreme. I’ve brought it up before and it would scale to a lot of people given Ikkaku was able to react to and fight them
 
So Ginjo can barely dodge lightning arrows slower than lightning yet he was completely fine against Ichigo who scales way above that 2 arcs prior.

There is a reason a lot of these lightning things weren't ever taken seriously at all.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
So Ginjo can barely dodge lightning arrows slower than lightning yet he was completely fine against Ichigo who scales way above that 2 arcs prior.

There is a reason a lot of these lightning things weren't ever taken seriously at all.
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That’s true too. Also Fullbring Zanpakuto Ichigo’s speed need to be changed to MHS+, Sub Realistic with bankai based on him at least scaling to his FKT self

the more I read it the more the OP’s points are contradicted by literally everything lol
 
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I'd like to point something out if I may, and forgive me if it just seems like I'm talking about the obvious but it needs to be said.

Fan-made calculations are not objective facts; quite often to make them work we need to make assumptions (reasonable assumption most of the time, I would hope) and depending on how certain scaling, certain perspectives are used, different results can be achieved by many people quite easily. There's a reason why even a single feat can have multiple calcs and re-calcs made by many different people over the years and not all of them are necessarily wrong just because a new one gets made. A calc can be perfectly, mathematically correct, and still not be the "right" result.

If a fan-made calculation used some figures, some assumptions and some angsizing and detirmined that the size of the Toriko Earth was 800,000 km in circumference then even though that calculation could be mathematically correct it would still likely not be accepted because the Toriko Earth has been stated consistently to be 220,000 km in circumference.

Like the recent threads on the Seireitei showed as well; there are multiple different ways of getting different sizes for the Seireitei but a method was picked that relied on a single, uncontradicted statement from a character which was then supported by other information from the novels that showed it to be reasonable.

So if your gut reaction to this thread is, "There's no way any of this can be taken seriously, because we have a character who scales to another character, who scales to another character, who scales to fan-made calculation that puts him at Relativistic speeds..." then all I'll say is that while in a sense that can be corrrect, that doesn't make it objectively correct. That calculation could be wrong. Our scaling could be inaccurate.

I'm not going to pretend I know the "objectively correct" figures for Bleach's statistics, because I'm just trying to take in all of the different pieces of information across a very lengthy manga and some lengthy sequel novels, and process them in a way that makes the most sense to me personally. I'm in the process of having to re-organize the OP because some of the information in there has been pointed out to be misinterpreted by me.

I'm not calling anyone a liar for believing Bleach to have "faster than light" statistics or that they're objectively incorrect for looking at things from a different perspective. I'm just trying to show how I think the information comes together to produce a different result than what you might think it is.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'd like to point something out if I may, and forgive me if it just seems like I'm talking about the obvious but it needs to be said.

Fan-made calculations are not objective facts; quite often to make them work we need to make assumptions (reasonable assumption most of the time, I would hope) and depending on how certain scaling, certain perspectives are used, different results can be achieved by many people quite easily. There's a reason why even a single feat can have multiple calcs and re-calcs made by many different people over the years and not all of them are necessarily wrong just because a new one gets made. A calc can be perfectly, mathematically correct, and still not be the "right" result.

If a fan-made calculation used some figures, some assumptions and some angsizing and detirmined that the size of the Toriko Earth was 800,000 km in circumference then even though that calculation could be mathematically correct it would still likely not be accepted because the Toriko Earth has been stated consistently to be 220,000 km in circumference.

Like the recent threads on the Seireitei showed as well; there are multiple different ways of getting different sizes for the Seireitei but a method was picked that relied on a single, uncontradicted statement from a character which was then supported by other information from the novels that showed it to be reasonable.

So if your gut reaction to this thread is, "There's no way any of this can be taken seriously, because we have a character who scales to another character, who scales to another character, who scales to fan-made calculation that puts him at Relativistic speeds..." then all I'll say is that while in a sense that can be corrrect, that doesn't make it objectively correct. That calculation could be wrong. Our scaling could be inaccurate.

I'm not going to pretend I know the "objectively correct" figures for Bleach's statistics, because I'm just trying to take in all of the different pieces of information across a very lengthy manga and some lengthy sequel novels, and process them in a way that makes the most sense to me personally. I'm in the process of having to re-organize the OP because some of the information in there has been pointed out to be misinterpreted by me.

I'm not calling anyone a liar for believing Bleach to have "faster than light" statistics or that they're objectively incorrect for looking at things from a different perspective. I'm just trying to show how I think the information comes together to produce a different result than what you might think it is.
Click to expand...
In addition to speed feats, are you going to make a CRT for AP and hax feats for non-God level characters to add to their profiles?
 
AppleLord said:
In addition to speed feats, are you going to make a CRT for AP and hax feats for non-God level characters to add to their profiles?
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I believe a lot of that from the novels has already been added to the character's profiles, but I will be going through the novels at my own pace to see if I can find anything that has been missed off the profiles until now.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'd like to point something out if I may, and forgive me if it just seems like I'm talking about the obvious but it needs to be said.

Fan-made calculations are not objective facts; quite often to make them work we need to make assumptions (reasonable assumption most of the time, I would hope) and depending on how certain scaling, certain perspectives are used, different results can be achieved by many people quite easily. There's a reason why even a single feat can have multiple calcs and re-calcs made by many different people over the years and not all of them are necessarily wrong just because a new one gets made. A calc can be perfectly, mathematically correct, and still not be the "right" result.

If a fan-made calculation used some figures, some assumptions and some angsizing and detirmined that the size of the Toriko Earth was 800,000 km in circumference then even though that calculation could be mathematically correct it would still likely not be accepted because the Toriko Earth has been stated consistently to be 220,000 km in circumference.

Like the recent threads on the Seireitei showed as well; there are multiple different ways of getting different sizes for the Seireitei but a method was picked that relied on a single, uncontradicted statement from a character which was then supported by other information from the novels that showed it to be reasonable.

So if your gut reaction to this thread is, "There's no way any of this can be taken seriously, because we have a character who scales to another character, who scales to another character, who scales to fan-made calculation that puts him at Relativistic speeds..." then all I'll say is that while in a sense that can be corrrect, that doesn't make it objectively correct. That calculation could be wrong. Our scaling could be inaccurate.

I'm not going to pretend I know the "objectively correct" figures for Bleach's statistics, because I'm just trying to take in all of the different pieces of information across a very lengthy manga and some lengthy sequel novels, and process them in a way that makes the most sense to me personally. I'm in the process of having to re-organize the OP because some of the information in there has been pointed out to be misinterpreted by me.

I'm not calling anyone a liar for believing Bleach to have "faster than light" statistics or that they're objectively incorrect for looking at things from a different perspective. I'm just trying to show how I think the information comes together to produce a different result than what you might think it is.
Click to expand...
Well put
 
Nothing wrong with that point of view but still these feats don't reflect the scaling. Virtually all of these off the top of my head suggest Ichigo from Karakura town is >> these EOS characters.

This would effect the entire verse. If they cap out at lightning speed at the literal end of the series. We don't scale any other series this way.
 
We don't scale any other series this way.
Click to expand...

Pardon me for being blunt but I don't care about any other series right now. They're not relevant to this topic.

This would effect the entire verse. If they cap out at lightning speed at the literal end of the series.
Click to expand...

Not the entire verse, but a good number of characters, yes. Some of them I think will be a lot less controversial to change than others and I'll explain why.
 
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