Bleach God Tiers for real this time

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well I can start over and just make a CRT that says: "Ichigo, Aizen, and Yhwach are all Low 2-C to 2-C" but of course my doc has multiple points, so people can see the full thought process. That doesn't change the fact that you can choose to respond to the points one at a time or shotgun me.

I don't get your point?

I responded to as many points as I could and have done some in my posts. Responding to all at once I feel is too much to make a consistent thread going, specially since the alternative "I agree with everything" can be typed and sent in a few seconds. So responding to it piece-meal is smart.

I will not address this point further as I feel it adds nothing to the discussion.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here, could you please go into more detail?

My point is that a different time-axis in a different dimension doesn't prove it is universal in size. All pocket dimensions have their own time. Space-Time isn't inherently Low 2-C in fact it has no set tier as it quite literally depends on size.

Which isn't what I'm doing. What I am saying with the Buddhism point is this. "Being that Kubo draws heavy inspiration with his manga's cosmos from Buddhism, it is likely that Kubo believes his realms to be much larger than planets." <- This is merely support that the realms aren't planet sized.

The universe in several forms of Buddhism is only 4 billion miles wide. I don't think you'd use Buddhism either to argue there, would you? As well as stuff like super-outdated mythic cosmology where the Earth is flat and the Milky Way is a river in the sky. Neither of those are true in Bleach so why the select usage of the realms not being planets when in fact they may be smaller than planets in Buddhism anyway?

Is the Universe in Bleach not the Garganta and everything inside it? AFAIK your point is "universal can vary in meaning" which sure it can, but if we know the Souls can reach across the entirety of the Garganta as seen with Valley of Screams, then the Garganta is included in the "Universal flow".

No. The universe existed prior to the Garganta.

"During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity" - Can't Fear Your Own World, referring to the time before the Soul King, before Life and Death, and before the Garganta. The Creation Myth of Bleach makes it clear that the universe existed before the creation of the Realms and the Garganta. They are not one and the same.

Yeah you're misunderstanding what you are reading. Because all I argue is that "at bare minimum the realms are universal in size, and potentially infinite" but I'm going to remove the stuff about Muken so it stops confusing you.

But they're neither universal nor infinite. Because there's no evidence for either as I have addressed in multiple posts.

You do understand what "if they could be likened" means right? The narrator is saying IF not that they can be likened.

I do understand. It means that something is like another something. And I used Memories of Nobody which depicts both the Living Realm and Soul Society as two planets as supplementary evidence to argue my case.

Stars exist within the realms, the realms are closed off from the garganta, but they exist within the garganta.

And yet, the space around the realms is supposed to be the Garganta. Makes it far more obvious that the stars are part of the Garganta.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

By the way...

"If the world of the living and Soul Society could be likened to planets and the pipeline that connected them were Dangai, the void of space that surrounded those was called Garganta"

"the void of space that surrounded those" bolded for your clarity.

This is literally stating that the outer space which surrounded Soul Society and the Living World is the same meaning that stuff like stars in the sky aren't part of either realm but of the Garganta. We know that the Living World is literally Earth, this is stated several times, and in Memories of Nobody both it and Soul Society are presented as planets that would crash against each other.

The Garganta is the space around these planets which encompasses them. But the Garganta isn't the whole universe either. The Garganta was created after the universe already existed.

This literally debunks everything it's amazing.

This one is wrong. The Garganta is devoid of stars since it literally possess nothing. It's a void, its described as only having random torrents of Reiatsu floating around.

Garganta is a separate dimension from the other dimensions that you can't physically travel too. For example, you can't fly off Soul Society into space and enter Garganta. You need to open a dimensional portal to it.

The dimensions are of different time and space as the Soul King had made them.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

As for the world of living being earth. That’s just no. The world of the living is our world entirely. It’s literally the real world.

Which is Earth.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

also this is from the anime

But isnt the anime non-canon? Why is it being mentioned?

 

[Ped2018]

But isnt the anime non-canon? Why is it being mentioned?

supporting evidence?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

also this is from the anime showing the milky way galaxy supporting this even tho its obvious that its based on our world lol even in burn the witch they talk about dragon ball and noel is confirmed to be a weeb who watches anime

This is the problem. Using random images of stars and galaxies from unrelated scenes does not support any argument.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

i mean no one really scales to the god tiers besides themselves as the only people they have fought and resisted are the other god tiers

Almighty doesn't scale to physicals.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Which is Earth.

No it isn’t... your logic would somehow mean soul society the realm itself is planet sized. Even though all evidence points to elsewhere.

we’ve literally been through this already in the Soul King thread??

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

supporting evidence?

You missed the point of why I asked. If its not canon, then it shouldnt be brought up.

 

[Zoro21043]

kubo helped with the anime and it was confirmed in the anime shuhei is a journalist before the novels

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This one is wrong. The Garganta is devoid of stars since it literally possess nothing. It's a void, its described as only having random torrents of Reiatsu floating around.

Garganta is a separate dimension from the other dimensions that you can't physically travel too. For example, you can't fly off Soul Society into space and enter Garganta. You need to open a dimensional portal to it.

The dimensions are of different time and space as the Soul King had made them.

Return of the King!

So I've made an itinerary of the order of what should be discussed, for the purposes of making this thread go smoothly.

Starting with the realm's size.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No it isn’t... your logic would somehow mean soul society the realm itself is planet sized. Even though all evidence points to elsewhere.

we’ve literally been through this already in the Soul King thread??

There's no evidence it isn't tho.

 

[Zoro21043]

Starting with, is the Garganta infinite or at least of universal in size.

i think we should start with size of realms as whatever size we get them to the garganta would always be larger and i dont think there is another way to get gargantas size unless we will use the auras statement

 

[AppleLord]

Stuff like scans mentioning "universal equilibrium" is irrelevant when Earth is the only place with souls in the universe and they all go to Soul Society or Hueco Mundo. Something can be "universal" in relevance without affecting the entire size of the universe.

Ignores:

Soul King came into existence after been rejected into the old universe.

Soul King split the universe into one of spiritual matter and matter. Reishi and Kishi.

Komamura isn’t human. He is not of Earth. The Beast Realm exists. So Komamura existence proof there are souls not from Earth.

Soul King himself, a soul, isn’t even from the Bleachverse like The Others that came into existence with him.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

There's no evidence it isn't tho.

It has stars which is far beyond a planet sized dimension.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

There's no evidence it isn't tho.

This is not an argument. If you want to say the real world is actually only a planet and that the bleach verse which is the same as ours hasn’t discovered space, other planets, and galaxies feel free to believe this. But it has no real basis. Nor is it what’s currently accepted.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

i think we should start with size of realms as whatever size we get them to the garganta would always be larger and i dont think there is another way to get gargantas size unless we will use the auras statement

Well it appears to be the natural flow of conversation anyhow so I agree.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It has stars which is far beyond a planet sized dimension.

The stars are part of the universe not of the Living Realm.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The stars are part of the universe not of the Living Realm.

???

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The stars are part of the universe not of the Living Realm.

Proof of such?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Oh boy...people really think a size not being specified directly proves they aren't universes.

Anyways Soul Society and the Living World were created from the old universe. The most distinguishable aspect between the two realms is that one is composed of spiritual matter and the other of physical matter. So it goes without a say, the matters wouldn't exist at that time as that is the facet which defines them. When Reio splitted the universe, the part which was of kishi formed a universe just like ours with few notable differences and a universe parallel to it….of reishi.

basically

 

[Damage3245]

If you want to say the real world is actually only a planet and that the bleach verse which is the same as ours hasn’t discovered space, other planets, and galaxies feel free to believe this.

My question is since the term "Soul Society" can mean both the dimension, and the planet of Soul Society interchangeably, it seems to me like the term for the "Living World" could also just mean the Earth.

So a statement of "The Soul Society is a parallel to the World of the Living" could be interpreted as the planet Soul Society is comparable to the planet Earth, not that they're two fully parallel Universes.

I'm not saying this is a 100% fact, just saying that it seems like multiple interpretations could exist and we need a deeper look at the original statements.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The stars are part of the universe not of the Living Realm.

This doesn't make sense.

The stars in Soul Society's night sky are part of Soul Society's dimension.

Garganta is a void and has been shown multiple times, it is a void that has nothing inside it. It has also been stated multiple times to only have loose flowing Reishi in it and no actual matter.

The World of the Living is in the irl universe. Its has its own irl stars made of real matter.

 

[Zoro21043]

dk if this will help but here

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

My question is since the term "Soul Society" can mean both the dimension, and the planet of Soul Society interchangeably, it seems to me like the term for the "Living World" could also just mean the Earth.

So a statement of "The Soul Society is a parallel to the World of the Living" could be interpreted as the planet Soul Society is comparable to the planet Earth, not that they're two fully parallel Universes.

I'm not saying this is a 100% fact, just saying that it seems like multiple interpretations could exist and we need a deeper look at the original statements.

yea is commonsense that a dimension of "only" 1 planet has a sun, moon and uncountable stars

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

My question is since the term "Soul Society" can mean both the dimension, and the planet of Soul Society interchangeably, it seems to me like the term for the "Living World" could also just mean the Earth.

So a statement of "The Soul Society is a parallel to the World of the Living" could be interpreted as the planet Soul Society is comparable to the planet Earth, not that they're two fully parallel Universes.

I'm not saying this is a 100% fact, just saying that it seems like multiple interpretations could exist and we need a deeper look at the original statements.

Yeah there are multiple interpretations like the Yama statement. But as far as I can tell the parallel statement is referring to the actual dimension itself. They have the same laws of physics, they both have stars and etc, the only difference between the realms is one is made of another form of matter entirely.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The World of the Living is in the irl universe. Its has its own irl stars made of real matter.

That would make more sense but it's still weird as **** to me. It's like there's a section of the universe cut off from the rest of the universe by Reishi. Though I do understand that the Garganta is like, not literally physically surrounding the realms like a ball that's more metaphorical.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

One thing I will say I disagree with though is every realm being universe sized.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

That would make more sense but it's still weird as **** to me. It's like there's a section of the universe cut off from the rest of the universe by Reishi. Though I do understand that the Garganta is like, not literally physically surrounding the realms like a ball that's more metaphorical.

basically

and i mean it kinda was cut? i guess you could say in a way

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

One thing I will say I disagree with though is every realm being universe sized.

the realm i dont really know about is hueco mundo cus we only have the planet and a moon

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

but it's still weird as **** to me

It certainly doesn't help that Kubo is often vague lol.

One thing I will say I disagree with though is every realm being universe sized.

I only think SS and WotL are universe sized.

 

[Zoro21043]

One thing I will say I disagree with though is every realm being universe sized.

idk if arc changed stuff but last time i read the doc only wotl and ss were considered universes

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

It certainly doesn't help that Kubo is often vague lol.


I only think SS and WotL are universe sized.

garganta

also if only those 2 realms will be considered universes and not HM i say fine

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It certainly doesn't help that Kubo is often vague lol.

I only think SS and WotL are universe sized.

Kubo is vague as ****, but I don't think there's even any vague evidence either of them are universe sized.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah there are multiple interpretations like the Yama statement. But as far as I can tell the parallel statement is referring to the actual dimension itself. They have the same laws of physics, they both have stars and etc, the only difference between the realms is one is made of another form of matter entirely.

Can you link the original statement to see if it is clear or not?

 

[AppleLord]

**** you all Ben < this was my brothers doing. Ignore it.

That would make more sense but it's still weird as **** to me. It's like there's a section of the universe cut off from the rest of the universe by Reishi. Though I do understand that the Garganta is like, not literally physically surrounding the realms like a ball that's more metaphorical.

Not a section. Half of the Universe was turned into Kishi. (Real Matter) Reishi existed before the World of the Living. Soul King created Hueco Mundo by turning the Menos Grande into sands of Reishi and Hueco Mundo out of the Reishi sands.

 

[Cyberblader90]

so i was given this a while back

image0-6.png (1200×185) (discordapp.com)

apparently what was done is environmental destruction. the borders between the worlds were being removed

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not a section. Half of the Universe was turned into Kishi. (Real Matter) Reishi existed before the World of the Living. Soul King created Hueco Mundo by turning the Menos Grande into sands of Reishi and Hueco Mundo out of the Reishi sands.

They didn't say half in the novel.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

apparently what was done is environmental destruction. the borders between the worlds were being removed

Exactly what I argued for all those years ago but was told I was wrong

lol what

 

[AppleLord]

Kubo is vague as ****, but I don't think there's even any vague evidence either of them are universe sized.