Bleach Downgrades (Staff Only)

[Arc7Kuroi]

Show the evidence for this please, because this was not presented in your counters. You only brought Jugrams statement, which was what my counters were aimed at.

Gimme a phat second to gather scans.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

1. That's fair I guess, but it was 9.5 Magnitude for only the Soul Society, world of the living was a light

The statemnt was for earth not SS

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I stand corrected on the magnitude point then, but my point is that a universe wide earthquake is not 3-A and that the world reshaping don't scale to Yhwach's Base Stats

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Kukui, Akuto says this for you:

A weightlifter can lift a balanced 100 kg, but may not be able to lift a weight of 100 kg if done unbalanced

If I put a 45 kg on both ends of the bar I can lift it, but if I put 2 45s on one side it's much harder and I can't lift it.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

HST master

"Lets go under the assumption that Weakened Reio is still Low 2-C. Almighty Yhwach is treated by us as being above Weakened Reio. This gives big problems, because going by the logic of this argument, Low 2-C power in general is needed to use the Almighty, since if Almighty Yhwach is >>> Weakened Soul King, who you guys still consider to be Low 2-C, and Almighty scales to Yhwach's attack potency, that would mean Yhwach was always Low 2-C and Yhwach regularly is Low 2-C as he would need Low 2-C power to wield Almighty in the first place."

This is only under the assumption that it is pure hax, which is incredibly false. We blatantly see and stated it's a strength increase when not only jugram says this, but when Ichibe proceeds to get literally dismembered by Almighty Yhwach's TK even though he was just keeping up with and pushing back Yhwach post second invasion.

"This then scales to a lot of different characters. Yamamoto would be scaling to Low 2-C since he and Yhwach 1000 of years prior to the series could not kill each other and Yhwach considered Prime Yamamoto a beast; The 5 War Potentials would arguably scale based off the very fact that Yhwach was concerned with them and made the Sternritter be wary of them, which makes no sense unless they were Low 2-C themselves for Yhwach to see them as a threat; On top of that, Ichibei would at least be the one member of Zero Squad who’d be scaling to Low 2-C since he outright fights Yhwach before and after the Almighty appeared without getting instantaneously stomped."

Well no. For Yama, Zanka no Tachi is hax, and arguing that all the war potentials scale is basically ignoring why they're even war potentials and their own showings:

Kisuke is a war potential because of his knowledge, he goes into a fight with 1k plans at the ready. Not because of his strength and Ichibe because of his wisdom (hax). That leaves the other 3 in which Kenpachi has shown literally zero showings of being comparable to Almighty Yhwach, so that's down 2, Aka the only ones who already scale, Ichigo and Aizen who are the only 2 who have actually fought Yhwach after he's awakened the Almighty

And as for Ichibe's fight? Yhwach one shots him as soon as the Almighty is active. The war potentials have never and will never scale soley just off the basis of them being the five war potentials, it completely ignores context.

"After that comes Jugram once again; Jugram was able to use Almighty in Yhwach’s place, which would mean he would need Low 2-C power to even remotely wield the Almighty; And no, it being a weaker Almighty does not change the fact that he’d need to be in the same realm of Low 2-C power as Yhwach is, or else using the Almighty is impossible from the start for a non Low 2-C. A weaker Almighty just means Jugram is a weaker Low 2-C than Yhwach is, so Low 2-C Jugram for using Almighty on some level now comes from this.

And after that, we get Low 2-C Uryu and likely Low 2-C Sternritters; Uryu lasted against Almighty Jugram, and made Jugram struggle afterwards, so he’d scale, and Sternritters likely scale to either Jugram or Uryu if memory serves me right."

Unquantifiable given that it's blatantly a weaker and unrefined Almighty, and incorrect. Jugram fodderises Bazz-B in Base and goes into the fight wirh Uryu with Almighty already active and proceeds to make it completely one sided, Uryu is only ever able to harm Jugram with the Antithesis and Jugram simply responds with using his Balance after his and Yhwach's powers switch back.

"And after that, we get Low 2-C Captains and Assistant Captains who'd be Low 2-C for fighting the Sternritters"
This all comes from downscaling from Jugram who dogwalked anyone he's fought in the arc, so it doesn't. Even if you were to use the royal guard they all fight with hax primarily.

Very easily, this logic results in over 20+ characters magically scaling to the upgrades, which creates inconsistency after inconsistency with every passing moment and makes this much more outlierish. And this is all on the premise that Almighty scales to Yhwach’s attack potency, which as explained, shouldn't be scaling.

So a choice needs to be made. Either the Almighty doesn’t scale to attack potency and is treated as pure hax, or many characters end up scaling to the upgrades to make this incredibly inconsistent."

This only occurs if context on these characters are left out, such as why a war potential is a war potential or the details of fights outside of "they fought"

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok, I am going to tag staff members at this time, I will wait a few more seconds for the last posts to be made, but once I drop the tag for staff members, I want all comments from regular users, especially Kukui and Arc to stop

If you post after I tag the staff, I will delete your comments

 

[LordGinSama]

I stand corrected on the magnitude point then, but my point is that a universe wide earthquake is not 3-A and that the world reshaping don't scale to Yhwach's Base Stats

Almighty works via Reitasu, which scales to the physical statistics of the character in question. Imade already went over that in his current reply and I haven't seen you counter it all. So would you kindly tell why you disagree with the power system? Genuinely haven't seen this countred thus far therefore it's a constructive argument.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Kukui, Akuto says this for you:

A weightlifter can lift a balanced 100 kg, but may not be able to lift a weight of 100 kg if done unbalanced

If I put a 45 kg on both ends of the bar I can lift it, but if I put 2 45s on one side it's much harder and I can't lift it.

This is irrelevant. At the end of the day, whether its balanced or unbalanced, the total amount of weight is still 45 KG or 100 KG.

There is literally no possible way for Reio to not be able to stop a level of imbalance to 2 worlds if his potency is able to keep everything beyond those 2 worlds in whole checked.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Hold up let me defend the Almighty is a stat amp point like I was asked to.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Almighty works via Reitasu, which scales to the physical statistics of the character in question. Imade already went over that in his current reply and I haven't seen you counter it all. So would you kindly tell why you disagree with the power system?

He didnt. He simply just uploaded Jugrams comment, which I debunked with a large response that he didnt address at all.

He didnt counter anything on this.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This is irrelevant. At the end of the day, whether its balanced or unbalanced, the total amount of weight is still 45 KG or 100 KG.

No because when it's unbalanced there is a net torque and a net force rather than just a net force. Lmao any that lifts can tell you that this is false.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No because when it's unbalanced there is a net torque and a net force rather than just a net force. Lmao any that lifts can tell you that this is false.

Im sorry, I didnt realize universes had actual net forces. This is a bad comparison and is still ireelevant to the point I made.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Ok, I am going to tag staff members at this time, I will wait a few more seconds for the last posts to be made, but once I drop the tag for staff members, I want all comments from regular users, especially Kukui and Arc to stop

If you post after I tag the staff, I will delete your comments

Imade has yet to respond so I say wait

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@ProfessorKukui4Life @Arc7Kuroi

Alright, since we're going to summon staff, I want one final conclusion statement/summary from both of you, no more walls of text, just summarize all your points and link to your full arguments if possible, I want you to conclude everything you need to say to appeal to staff right in that comment

If IMade wants to post later he can and it will be allowed

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

HST master

"Lets go under the assumption that Weakened Reio is still Low 2-C. Almighty Yhwach is treated by us as being above Weakened Reio. This gives big problems, because going by the logic of this argument, Low 2-C power in general is needed to use the Almighty, since if Almighty Yhwach is >>> Weakened Soul King, who you guys still consider to be Low 2-C, and Almighty scales to Yhwach's attack potency, that would mean Yhwach was always Low 2-C and Yhwach regularly is Low 2-C as he would need Low 2-C power to wield Almighty in the first place."

This is only under the assumption that it is pure hax, which is incredibly false. We blatantly see and stated it's a strength increase when not only jugram says this, but when Ichibe proceeds to get literally dismembered by Almighty Yhwach's TK even though he was just keeping up with and pushing back Yhwach post second invasion.

Except no, it doesn't. It doesnt need to be hax or not, the point of this argument is that your logic dictates Yhwach would need to be Low 2-C in order to freely wield the Almighty in the first place.

And no, Jugram never said its a strength increase. He said Yhwach needed to regain his strength before opening his eyes, or else the Almighty would go out of control and absorb the power of the sternritters. Having to be strong to wield it is, again, not a strength buff. It is a caveat to using the power.

"This then scales to a lot of different characters. Yamamoto would be scaling to Low 2-C since he and Yhwach 1000 of years prior to the series could not kill each other and Yhwach considered Prime Yamamoto a beast; The 5 War Potentials would arguably scale based off the very fact that Yhwach was concerned with them and made the Sternritter be wary of them, which makes no sense unless they were Low 2-C themselves for Yhwach to see them as a threat; On top of that, Ichibei would at least be the one member of Zero Squad who’d be scaling to Low 2-C since he outright fights Yhwach before and after the Almighty appeared without getting instantaneously stomped."

Well no. For Yama, Zanka no Tachi is hax, and arguing that all the war potentials scale is basically ignoring why they're even war potentials and their own showings:

Zanka no Tachi is irrelevant to the point. The point is, Yhwach and Yama could not kill each other in the past. And Yhwach considered Prime Yama's power to be "a beast"

A low 2-C being incapable of killing a non-Low 2-C and considering power below that to not be in the same realm of power is ridiculous.

Kisuke is a war potential because of his knowledge, he goes into a fight with 1k plans at the ready. Not because of his strength and Ichibe because of his wisdom (hax). That leaves the other 3 in which Kenpachi has shown literally zero showings of being comparable to Almighty Yhwach, so that's down 2, Aka the only ones who already scale, Ichigo and Aizen who are the only 2 who have actually fought Yhwach after he's awakened the Almighty

Kenpachi doesnt get removed from this. Yhwach considering him a threat in the first place is quite enough to say Kenpachi would be Low 2-C. It would be ridiculous not to. A threat needs to be in the same realm of power as the one threatened, and in this case, we're talking about a tier thats as vastly as big as Low 2-C is.

You also missed the point where I said the 5 war potentials would "Arguably" scale. Nice job.

And as for Ichibe's fight? Yhwach one shots him as soon as the Almighty is active. The war potentials have never and will never scale soley just off the basis of them being the five war potentials, it completely ignores context.

See above. And no, Ichibe would still scale because Yhwach regularly would have Low 2-C power. Why? Because he would need Low 2-C power, according to your logic, to freely wield Almighty.

Unquantifiable given that it's blatantly a weaker and unrefined Almighty,

Irrelevant. It would still be Low 2-C, just unquantifiably lower.

and incorrect. Jugram fodderises Bazz-B in Base and goes into the fight wirh Uryu with Almighty already active and proceeds to make it completely one sided,

Uryu was still standing against him, showing he was not one shotted. So the scaling would stay.

Uryu is only ever able to harm Jugram with the Antithesis and Jugram simply responds with using his Balance after his and Yhwach's powers switch back.

Okay? Still the same thing as above.

"And after that, we get Low 2-C Captains and Assistant Captains who'd be Low 2-C for fighting the Sternritters"
This all comes from downscaling from Jugram who dogwalked anyone he's fought in the arc, so it doesn't. Even if you were to use the royal guard they all fight with hax primarily.

Then they would be scaling from Uryu most likely, which still keeps the scaling alive. Unless Uryu is beyond all of the captains by leaps and bounds at this point.

Even then, your still missing the actual overal point that characters who have no business touching these tiers would still arbitrarily scale to the upgrades, which still makes scaling inconsistent.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok I will wait to summon staff until IMade's final comment, I will also allow Kukui and Arc to give their final statements along with IMade at that time

I'm just saying that this point, Kukui and Arc have been shotgunning each other and we've kinda been circle jerking at this point, I'm just trying to mediate at this point since AKM and Damage are currently unavailable at the moment, I don't mean to be forceful or in control, just trying to bring this to a neat conclusion so that staff can cleanly take a look at each side of the argument

 

[ShieldsPlus]

i think the best thing to do is to let both arc and kukui say which points they agree on and then cover the other points one at a time to prevent the shotgunning

That's probably not going to work at this point. Covering one point at a time would take a drastic amount of time for each and every point, and it'd probably result in whatever previous posts that are written up there.

In short, both sides would post frequently, but not much would be done.

Not that this is actually what I think of this thread, but it's what I think it would happen sooo....

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Im sorry, I didnt realize universes had actual net forces.

They would actually have a net gravitational force as they possess mass and gravity exists lmao.

Ok Almighty correlates to stats and here is why.

Here we see the second Yhwach activates the Almighty he blitzes and pierces Ichibe despite being ragdolled around earlier, evident of a stat increase. Ichibe was even convinced that he could kill the previous Yhwach and that he did, surprised that Yhwach is still standing. Ichibe went from not viewing Yhwach as a threat at all to being completely baffled that he's been stabbed. There narrative is quite clearly pushing that Yhwach just got a major amp.

Here Jugram comments on the Almighty being Yhwach's true power and how now that he opened his eyes he has his full strength. This is clearly showing that Almighty Yhwach is stronger than any previous version we've seen. Further supported by him later one shotting Ichibe.

Later in the final battle Yhwach uses the Almighty to break Ichigo's sword (we later found out this was actually Aizen Kubo even draws the same marks on KS as a neat piece of foreshadowing that Aizen was Ichigo), but he fails to break the blade. So this means KS is relative somewhat to the Almighty and we know Aizen and Yhwach are somewhat relative to each other, which means Yhwach is relative to his own Almighty. Before you say "but but but he was under hypnosis", Aizen can't control what Yhwach sees and KS doesn't nerf someone's power it just messes with someone's senses.

Here we see another instance of the Almighty failing to break something, that something being Tensa Zangetsu, without KS active. So if you concede that Yhwach is universal with the Almighty, Tensa Zangetsu is relative to the Almighty.

However, this shouldn't need to be a point of conversation, as here we are told that all Reio needs to prevent the collapse is reiryoku which is what determines how well one can fight (the kanji for reiryoku is used I checked, right side of long middle panel).

Even then if you want to steel man it's a hax, we know that to some degree hax scales to one's physical stats as Aizen negs hax through raw power. Although, this point is a non-issue as none of the universal stuff in Bleach is done through hax.

Sigurd: "Grimmjow was glaring at Ikomikidomoe, grinding its teeth.
“However, the piece I have just eaten is enough for now.”
During its separation from Hikone, it robbed a part of the ‘Rei-o fragment’ lodged within Hikone. It’s
absorption of reishi from the atmosphere became more intense than ever as it condensed its violent
reiryoku.
“This piece of the Rei-o... hahahaha! That’s right! I remember my hunger! Oh yes!”
It appeared as though the devoured shard of the Rei-o had given it a great deal of power that weakened
the name-curse of the monk’s zanpakuto that had repainted its original name. At the same time, its
Hollow reiatsu exploded outwards, scattering the unusually dense reishi of the Kyogoku. Slaughtering
those in the Zero Division; that would be its first step towards vengeance. It opened its mouth to cry out
its true name.
“I was so desperate. I have waited for so long. My true name is-“

Here we see Ikomikomoe absorb a piece of the soul king. Absorbing this increases his power to the point he was able to overpower the name curse placed on him by Ichibei to regain his original power.

The same thing happened when Yhwach activated The Almighty because it increases his power overall.

The fact he was able to kill Ichibei with his TK now also proves this increases his power."

i think the best thing to do is to let both arc and kukui say which points they agree on and then cover the other points one at a time to prevent the shotgunning

This is a good idea, Kukui care to tell me what specifically you still have a problem with so (like list them out) I don't run the issue of covering pointless topics for clarity's sake.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Response to Kukui

Kukui ignored a few points and several scans which make his arguments invalid nor acceptable.

I will respond to his points and addressing the mistakes while providing scans when needed.

Green quoted comments are from Kukui.

Blue quotes comments are from Bleach.

Purple quotes comments are from my previous comment.

Kukui's Section - The Soul King’s Passive Feat “Actually Still Exists”​

Kukui goes off on a tangent spouting misinformation in his sub points that I had already addressed in my original scan, he just glossed over it like those that are agreeing with him have been doing. You're not actually reading the comments nor scans when scans straight up say how your points are wrong:

It is not mentioned “numerous times” that he sustains the worlds. - Kukui

Kukui is once again wrong.

It is mentioned in the novel and the manga that the Soul King is stabilizing the worlds, plus we are directly shown that the Soul King is stabilizing the worlds.

In the manga, Yhwach directly states how the Soul King was stabilizing the worlds and we are explicitly shown the that worlds are collapsing due to the Soul King no longer stabilizing them, this occurs multiple times:

1) The Soul King's initial death, the worlds destabilize.

2) Mimihagi's death, the worlds destabilize.

3) Yhwach destabilizing the worlds as the Soul King.


Where this is also stated is by Ichibei when he describes the past:

But their widely varying motives strangely led to the same goal in the end; to split the world. A world of order, a world of implementation, also a paradise of sand where Hollows from two sides would end up in.

Perhaps another form of the world would be born, but the essential thing was the clear separation the world of the 'living' from the world of the 'dead'.

In order to turn this division into a reality, what was required was the power of a man who transcended everything.

"Although the Shiba ancestor tried to talk the Tsunayashiro ancestor out of it, it is said that the Rei-o was tied up and sealed within the crystal. The rest of Soul Society's history was witnessed directly by myself."

A man who was later named the Rei-o.

Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era.

...

"But the Tsunayashiro ancestor doubted even this non-resistance. Afraid of the Rei-o escaping from his seal by himself; he neither wanted the Rei-o to live nor did he want to kill him. Continuing this helix of contradictions, the Right Arm of 'stagnation' and the Left Arm of 'Progress' were torn off."

...

"Well; I suppose that still wasn't enough. The ancestors; including Tsunayashiro; gouged out his heart and internal organs; and dismembered both his legs. Doing so, they destroyed his power; creating a king convenient for themselves."

...

"Convenient indeed. He continues to remain the lynchpin without ever having a say in the workings of this world, while the real business is carried out by others."

Can't Fear Your Own World Volume 3

The Soul King maintains the worlds.

Now this problem from Kukui as well:

It's mentioned ONCE, through a statement that’s open to more than one interpretation of what it means.
- Kukui

I literally explained above how this is wrong, but Kukui ignored it:

"Reio was created to stabilize the Soul Society, where massive numbers of Konpaku pass through!"

-Reio is the subject.

-Reio being created is the verb.

-The complete thought of the sentence is it's purpose, that the Reio was created to stabilize the Soul Society.

However, the sentence is split down the middle by the comma, the purpose of the comma is it's adding additional information to the sentence (this is called a parenthetical expression/comma). It's not really "parenthetical" here as it's moved to the end of the sentence. Thus there is no second comma as it's replaced with the period. The point of this comma and expression is it's placed after what it is providing extra information for... and it's placed after Soul Society.

The complete thought was Reio's creation being for stabilization, the parenthetical comma was additional information about Soul Society's Konpaku. The Konpaku amount has nothing to do with Reio, it has to do with Soul Society.

Kukui is wrong again, there is only one interpretation when you use English correctly.

Kukui's Sections - Counter-Point: “Reiatsu is the pressure of their level of energy, and thus, scales to their strength.”

and

First Evidence: Reio's Eyeball Creatures

and

Second Evidence: Yhwach's Reiatsu Remnants

and

Almighty Scaling to AP​

The reasoning for these points are dumb:

This supposed Low 2-C Reiatsu is shown, one way or another, to be countered by people who have absolutely no business touching this tier of power, and aren't acknowledged to despite the upgrades. This leaves a great deal of skepticism on this argument, much less how scaling is supposed to be done in comparison. Is this Reiatsu simply not Low 2-C when used offensively? Are Low 2-C non-god tiers a thing now for fighting against Low 2-C power without so much as getting a scratch? Low 2-C Captains? Low 2-C Lieutenants? Or biggest of all, Low 2-C Kazui? How can they so much as even stand in the general presence of Low 2-C energy...without being Low 2-C themselves?
- Kukui

This isn't how the wiki.

May I present the biggest franchise on VS Wiki:

Dragon Ball Super.

Beerus is Low 2-C.

Beerus literally slapped Bulma and knocked her out... does that mean Bulma is Low 2-C? Obviously not.

Beerus fought all the Z-Fighters and defeated them... does that mean Gohan, Majin Buu, Piccolo, Vegeta (at the time), Goku (at the time), Gotenks, Andorid 18, Krillin, and Tien are all Low 2-C? Obviously not.

Also, I literally addressed the eyeballs and stats equivalence for this argument already in my previous comment, but Kukui ignored it:

Why are the Reio Eyeballs even being discussed? They're just the passive Reiryoku that leaked during the process of Yhwach absorbing the Soul King, they have no rating as it's unquantifiable in their amount. Yhwach wasn't even controlling them, it was literally leaked energy of the Soul King that had malice towards the Soul Reapers. It's not a quantifiable thing.

and

Oh I forgot to add this, it's a scan of Haschwalth stating how Almighty relates to strength.
If you aren't strong enough, you can't use the Almighty.
Plus, you need Reiatsu and Reiryoku still in Bleach.

This is why Haschwalth using the Almighty had an inferior version to Yhwach.

Yhwach was not strong enough to use the Almighty while fighting Ichibei, Yhwach's strength returned to him in the middle of the fight which allowed him to use the Almighty once more. This is why Ichibei, Yamamoto, nor Ichigo scale to Yhwach before this point. Haschwalth explicitly states that his strength returned at that moment. After this moment, Ichibei is unable to do anything to Yhwach who is now too powerful.

This is not a counter point, this isn't any point against the current ratings. Anyone that agrees with Kukui and this point needs to explain why they do, this is not acceptable.

Kukui is wrong.

Kukui's Section- Can’t Fear Your Own World Novel Statement On Flow of Souls​

Kukui makes egregious errors here and once again ignores my scans:

First things first, the use of volume three translations of the novel. The original post already made a point in addressing the fact that the official translations for CFYOW’s volume 3 novel will not be made available until the incoming months.
- Kukui

This isn't a point nor an agreement, this is Kukui trying to avoid addressing scans against his point.

We are allowed to use acceptable fan translations, we literally do this for most of the expanded Fate-verse as it's not translated to English, we use fan translations.

Kukui can't run away from Volume 3 of Can't Fear Your Own World's statements that disprove his argument.

Also:

This novel scan on the universal flow of souls is from the officially translated version of the novel’s 2nd volume. Why are Volume 3’s non-official translations beig used as a supporting counter point against this?
...so it being invalidated by any chance does not deem the whole point or later points invalidated, even if this lying argument checks out.
- Kukui

Kukui once again ignores my scans, I literally used evidence from that same page of Volume 2 that proved this character was lying. It's further proven this character lied entirely in the literal following page:

Before posting this scan you should've read Volume 3, the full page, and the following page.

As you can see in the initial scan posted in the OP, if you literally read the following lines you will see that the speaker who said what the Soul King's purpose was is literally told to be a lie that the main character immediately realizes.

In the next page this is proven true as the main character is shown to be Tokinada who then goes the archives of his Royal Family's library to find out that the speaker who described the Soul King was lying indeed and did not tell the truth.

This character lied, we can't trust any aspect of his statements, they are a liar and can't be believed.

This point is null.

This is too is unacceptable, Kukui is blatantly wrong and disproven by that same volume. Anyone that agrees with him needs to explain why.

Kukui's Section - The Threat of the Quincies “Isn't True”​

This section isn't valid because the threats of the Quincy was spread by the Shinigami. The Shinigami were lied to by the Royal Family as shown above. The Shinigami don't know the true nature of the worlds, only select individuals outside of the family do.

Kukui's Section - Yhwach’s Stability Statement​

The structure of the statement that IMade tries to break down here for us means very little, to nothing, because the original post’s point on this part of the argument was talking about why the massive flow on Konpaku was even mentioned in the first place. It being “additional information” is a copout to go against the other viable interpretation, that the Soul King stabilizes the soul society through the massive numbers of Konpaku passing through it. If the Konpaku were not a factor into this sustenance statement for Reio, why would Yhwach bring it up in the first place? This is what the original argument, from my PoV, was addressing or was trying to address. It wouldn't have been brought up if it wasn’t an actual relevant factor in this, yet it was.
-Kukui

I addressed this above, but I will again, you can't argue against English grammar. It's objective. There are no multiple interpretations when we have grammar rules. This is Kukui trying to avoid the fact that the statement is not up to interpretation, I will reiterate why:

"Reio was created to stabilize the Soul Society, where massive numbers of Konpaku pass through!"

-Reio is the subject.

-Reio being created is the verb.

-The complete thought of the sentence is it's purpose, that the Reio was created to stabilize the Soul Society.

However, the sentence is split down the middle by the comma, the purpose of the comma is it's adding additional information to the sentence (this is called a parenthetical expression/comma). It's not really "parenthetical" here as it's moved to the end of the sentence. Thus there is no second comma as it's replaced with the period. The point of this comma and expression is it's placed after what it is providing extra information for... and it's placed after Soul Society.

The complete thought was Reio's creation being for stabilization, the parenthetical comma was additional information about Soul Society's Konpaku. The Konpaku amount has nothing to do with Reio, it has to do with Soul Society.

There are no other interpretation. English is English, I literally hold your hand to break it down for you.

Kukui is blatantly wrong on this one, literally going against English rules.

Kukui's Section - The Soul King's Stability Done With Reiatsu/Reiryoku & The Almighty​

The stability being done with Reiatsu isn’t mentioned here anyway, and the original post and later counters already made very extensive arguments on why it being down with Reiatsu doesn’t stop the downgrade from happening.
-Kukui

One of these days, Kukui will read the full context because he once again literally ignores the scans.

It's explicitly stated that Reiatsu and Reiryoku are stabilizing the worlds, I put out the scans for it in my previous comment, but I will reiterate again:

"After Kurosaki Ichigo had triumphed over Yhwach, his remains were transported to the Soul King Palace at the hands of Squad Zero soldiers. Hundreds of binding seals were placed around the corpse which still contained a vast amount of Reiryoku even after death, by storing it as the new lynchpin in the Soul King Greater Palace area, the world was spared from collapse."
- We Do knot Always Love You

All Yhwach is at this point is a corpse with a massive amount of Reiryoku. His Reiryoku

is what is stabilizing the worlds.

Another piece of evidence is Ichigo himself.

Ichigo does not have an Almighty; however, Ichigo is a potential Soul King replacement due to the fact that he has a massive amount of Reiatsu and Reiryoku as well.

Ichibei is the most credible character in the series and he states Ichigo was going to be used to save the worlds.

Kukui is wrong about this.





A little tidbit I'd like to add as support is that Yhwach was going to destroy the worlds with his Reiatsu, further proof that the stabilization and destabilization of the worlds is done through Reiatsu.

Kukui's Section - Yhwach “Doesn't” Have a Lack of Power​

I pretty much already went over this section already above with the evidence of the Almighty being unusable without the necessary power needed. Supporting evidence with Haschwalth having an inferior Almighty. Plus, it's literally stated and I've provided novel statements saying Yhwach was able to stabilize the world's due to his power.

More or less, 15 whole different tiers. All given just by the use of statements and no other evidence. The people who are for the downgrade dont think statements are viable enough evidence for an upgrade as drastic as this.
-Kukui

This is not an issue for the wiki, we have even larger tier jumps from other series and characters on the wiki for lesser reasonings. All we need is sufficient evidence which Bleach has provided in it's novels and manga.

Kukui's Section - Ganju’s Credibility​

Just to correct you IMade, you do know that the map to the Royal Palace wasn’ aquired by Ganju in the first place, right? It was given to his sister, Kukaku Shiba? The literal clan leader of the Shiba Family, who would quite very obviously be an exception compared to her younger brother? Zero Squad gave her the map, who then gave it to Ganju, which ironically speaks to the point that not just any run of the mill person gets access to very secretive information like this on a whim all because of their royal lineage.
-Kukui

I don't understand your intent because you literally prove how Ganju is credible because of that Royal lineage. Ganju is second in line for his family after his sister. It's because of this heritage he had access to the map in the first place. This lineage is a huge factor as well, he is a Shiba. He is a member of the Royal Families, descendant to those who know the real truth of the world.

Kukui's Section- Yhwach Planning To Destroy The Garganta​

and

Character Intentions vs Burden of Proof​

This is Kukui once again ignoring comments because I provide reasoning for Yhwach destroying the Garganta.

Yhwach was trying to undo the Soul King's creation. This includes the Garganta.

He is right that we don't see it, but we don't need to see it because we are literally told about Yhwach's goals to undo the Soul King's work. His work including the Garganta. And we do see evidence of Yhwach undoing part of the Soul King's work, we obviously don't see all of it and it's necessary, being told and shown the progress is sufficient evidence

Kukui is wrong about this as well. He is ignoring context to pass his interpretation.

Kukui's Section - The Silver Arrow Penetrating Yhwach and Uryu’s Antithesis​

A viable and less argumentative assumption to make, instead of making leaps in logic on Uryu's position, is to blame Kubo for terrible paneling. The depiction of the arrow is displayed as Uryu shooting Yhwach from the back, which has to imply he’s behind Yhwach to do that. The arrow being portrayed as shooting Yhwach from behind,

Personally speaking, I'm fine with dropping with the Silver Arrow point too, but i'm clarifying why the original post brought this up. Because either the arrow is Low 2-C in strength in order to physically penetrate Yhwach, or it's not Low 2-C and it's an anti feat.
- Kukui

This is another reason why this doesn't make sense. Uryu is in front of Yhwach (Yhwach looks down at Uryu / Ichigo looks to his left to see Uryu when Ichigo was in front of Yhwach). The arrow enters from behind Yhwach.

This isn't an anti-feat, and as I explained, Uryu's ability is hax and counters the Almighty.

1) Uryu's Anti-Thesis was stated to be a counter to the Almighty according to an Almighty user.

2) Yhwach himself states that Uryu has an innate power superior to his own.

3) The Still Silver Arrow is stated to be a counter and nullifier to Yhwach's powers which included the Almighty.

4) Anti-Thesis is hax ability that switches the state of two targets, Uryu isn't going to be scaling to Yhwach for his hax and Still Silver being able to work on Yhwach.


Stop talking about this dumb thing, it serves no purpose and waste time. It's a badly written deus-ex machina to defeat Yhwach, but Kubo at least explained why it work, it's just stupid because it was introduced the chapter it was used.

---

End Thoughts

Kukui ignores too much scans and context while directly going against statements and feats shown in the manga. His interpretation and arguments are not valid, they shouldn't be agreed upon unless he provides new reasonings or another stance.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Alright. I will respond to both IMades stuff and the stuff Arc brought for Almighty (since that wasnt brought earlier) before we get to Staff judgements.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Well, after your comment, we should each be allotted one final comment to support our opinions that aren't just another response to the other.

It takes away from anyone having a final say as they aren't responses.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Alright. I will respond to both IMades stuff and the stuff Arc brought for Almighty (since that wasnt brought earlier) before we get to Staff judgements.

As you/AKM made the first post, IMade and I get the last post, it's common courtesy.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

As you/AKM made the first post, IMade and I get the last post, it's common courtesy.

No its not.

Your side has continually ignored points from me again and again that ive had to repeat things over and over to make sure it isnt missed. Meanwhile, I look over everything you guys say and either counter it or say I will ignore or concede to it.

So no offense, but im not agreeing with that unless you actually make sure to address everything so I dont need to repeat it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No its not.

Your side has continually ignored points from me again and again that ive had to repeat things over and over to make sure it isnt missed. Meanwhile, I look over everything you guys say and either counter it or say I will ignore or concede to it.

So no offense, but im not agreeing with that unless you actually make sure to address everything so I dont need to repeat it.

Uh yes it is have you been in a debate before? First person to speak does not get the last word.

And what the **** IMade and I have addressed every point, you on the other hand have openly disregarded points because you don't think they matter. You straight up say "I'm going to ignore these points" yet you have the gull to accuse us of that smh.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Let's take 5 for the day, attack the arguments and not each other.

It clutters the thread. Come back refreshed when you wake up, done with school, work, and/or chores.

I will respond to Kukui's next counter unless staff think we should make closing statements then I will do that instead.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Uh yes it is have you been in a debate before? First person to speak does not get the last word.

Normally yes. But when a bunch of stuff gets ignored and has to be repeated, that becomes a different story. And I say this with no offense.

And what the **** IMade and I have addressed every point,

IMade’s First response here was literally made toward only most of AKMs OP and missed the recent counters made throughout these 4 pages that countered a lot of stuff. While busy, that should not have happened

And ive had to continually repost arguments against you arc for you either ignored them or failed to fully address them.

you on the other hand have openly disregarded points because you don't think they matter.

Yes, because I confirm that they don’t matter to my arguments. OR that I concede to them so that they don’t need to be remade again.

I at least inform everyone of what I’m addressing and what I’m not so it’s clear.

You straight up say "I'm going to ignore these points" yet you have the gull to accuse us of that smh.

See above. If I concede to a point, I make it known at the start of my counters. If I ignore a point because I think it’s irrelevant to the topic, I make it known from the start. I don’t make counters and miss things unless I say I do.

Look, I did not mean any offense by what I said, all I ask is that you please try and address everything so that these points do not become circular.

 

[ShieldsPlus]

The active participants that are involved in this thread, would it be okay for you guys to call it a day?

You guys can wait until tomorrow to continue this while getting a much-needed break and this topic and its discussion points would remain as it is.

EDIT: Going through everything that was discussed in this thread and the points made from start to end could really end up being something, I bet.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Look, I did not mean any offense by what I said, all I ask is that you please try and address everything so that these points do not become circular.

I apologize for responding so defensive if you meant no offense then, I am and will do my best to respond to everything. As Shields and IMade suggested, I'm done for the night.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay, this is the last thing I will say for tonight while I give my final final counters tomorrow, because I feel this should be said.

I want to give a sincere apology to not just @Arc7Kuroi but also to everyone here in this thread, and those watching, for my unprofessionalism of what I recently said. That the opposition shouldnt be given the last word. As Arc7 said, this is how proper debating is supposed to be done, so I shouldn't have complained against that. My rash thinking to go and say otherwise for being agitated and emotional over the course of this thread got the better of me when it shouldn't have. And regardless of what side of this sensitive topic we are on, I do want to own my part on this bit and given an apology to where I think it is due.

While we approach the end of this thread, I do hope that this "rivarly" that's been going on between both opposing sides is able to be put past us and we can remain civil and kind to each other this moment forward, no matter what happens. My unprofessionalism against the opposition here was uncalled for, unwarranted, and I am very sorry to everyone for it.

Good night everyone.

 

[Abstractions]

Thank you both for being very mature and owning up to mistakes made, aggression is understandable in debate because people aren't always used to having their views challenged, but it takes a lot to apologize for that.

Continue the debate with clear heads, that's always the best way to go about things.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

After talking with, settling our differences, and coming to an understanding with Kukui, it has been brought to my attention that I owe many a long overdue apology.

I'll keep it short and to the point. I am sorry for inciting toxicity and being vulgar and rude with many members (Kukui, Damage, Duedate, Jvando, Matthew, AKM, Mitch, Ant, Shadow, please call me out if I missed you) both in this thread and other concurrent threads and past threads. We've all been at each other throats for so long and it's gotten quite out of hand, and as one of the causes of this problem it is on me to take ownership for such.

Going forward I will reduce my negativity to a minimum and as Kukui put it, it really is time I stop furthering this rivalry. I don't ask or expect my actions to be magically forgotten, but nonetheless I offer my apology to those I've insulted as well as others that have been negatively impacted by my toxic behavior. Honey is sweeter than wine after all.

Until tomorrow, ciao

 

[AKM sama]

If you guys both want the last word, how about you prepare your last words in advance and post it at the same time and you don't get to counter whatever has been said in the other person's final comment. Because that's the only way back and forth is gonna stop and it's fair imo.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'd be okay with that honestly, if Arc / IMade are as well.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I agree with AKM, I’ll talk with IMade and try to get the IMade + Arc combo in one post.

Edit: IMade agrees.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody for trying to be civil and tone down the ongoing previous hostility regarding this topic.

 

[AKM sama]

So are you guys still interested in making your final arguments or should the other staff be called here to evaluate, looking how long this thread already is.

 

[LordGinSama]

The Imade / Arc comment will be made on the weekend, followed by Kukui's last comment.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So are you guys still interested in making your final arguments or should the other staff be called here to evaluate, looking how long this thread already is.

Yeah I've been in contact with Kukui, we've both been slammed with school this week. I appreciate your continued patience, our final statements will be presented this weekend.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay everyone. My bad for being pretty late with this, a new semester at school started for me so my times been occupied with that and I couldn't post my responses sooner like I wanted. But now I have time to, so i'll be getting my final stuff out here. I'll address Arc's stuff first and then IMade's.

Counters for Arc’s Argument: The Almighty Scaling to AP ​

Okay, so before I post my final counters against IMade, here are my counters against Arc’s little bit that he brought before about the Almighty. Let's dive into this and i'll go on to post the rest of my final arguments.

First things first is the evidence from Yhwach’s fight with Ichibe.

Here we see the second Yhwach activates the Almighty he blitzes and pierces Ichibe despite being ragdolled around earlier, evident of a stat increase. Ichibe was even convinced that he could kill the previous Yhwach and that he did, surprised that Yhwach is still standing. Ichibe went from not viewing Yhwach as a threat at all to being completely baffled that he's been stabbed. There narrative is quite clearly pushing that Yhwach just got a major amp.

Shooting ieveryone straight, nothing from this part of Arc’s response here has anything to do with a stat boost, and this is because Yhwach didn’t receive any boost in stats by the Almighty. His strength was restored back to where it was before being lowered by Ichibe. But before I give my evidence for this, I’d just like to show everyone a little statement IMade gave in his previous counters against me. Please read the boldened words.

Yhwach was not strong enough to use the Almighty while fighting Ichibei, Yhwach's strength returned to him in the middle of the fight which allowed him to use the Almighty once more. This is why Ichibei, Yamamoto, nor Ichigo scale to Yhwach before this point. Haschwalth explicitly states that his strength returned at that moment. After this moment, Ichibei is unable to do anything to Yhwach who is now too powerful.

IMade himself doesn’t agree with Arc’s assessment that this is a stat boost, he sides with my point that Yhwach simply restored his weakened strength. 2 people, who are on the same side as each other here, are not even on the exact same page on what they are arguing. Please keep this in mind when reading through the final responses.

Now to get to my counters on why this isn’t a stat boost for Yhwach. Let's post the entire fight between Yhwach and Ichibe so context of what happened during it isn't missed. For this part, there are too many individual scans for everything to be posted within the 20 picture limit the forum allows, so I will give the chapters Yhwach and Ichibe fight each other in. It's only 6 chapters, so it'll only take a small bit of time or so for everyone to read through them. It won’t take long. Anyways, moving on.

Arc’s argument about Yhwach and Ichibe is ignoring 2 very crucial things. The first is about Ichibe. What Arc didn't post about this fight is that Ichibe’s basic abilities were used to weaken Yhwach's strength. Ichibe’s Zanpakuto, Ichimonji, does not harm opponents in the conventional sense because it doesn't cut opponents. It cuts names.

Cutting the name of whatever Ichimonji slices allows Ichibe to halve that target's power in half. He shows this when cutting the name of Yhwach’s arm in half, making it “AR” and halving its strength. He does this again by cutting Yhwach's name in half, making it “YHW” and halving all of Yhwach’s power.

The second crucial thing Arc’s argument doesnt post about is how Yhwach is able to overcome Ichimonji’s name cutting abilities. Yhwach shows Ichibei that Ichimonji halving his power is useless, because Yhwach has the ability to restore any strength he loses back to what it was at before. And this is without using the Almighty.

And then after that, comes Ichibe confirming that anything painted over with Ichimonji’s black ink loses its name, and its power as well. Ichimonji’s basic abilities, without its Bankai, are able to cut names in half and remove names, weakening and removing the target's power.

Now we get to what Ichimonji’s bankai does. Ichibe’s Bankai is able to remove and give new names to anything its black ink paints over.

When doing this to Yhwach, he gave him the name of a black ant. Doing so made Yhwach’s power on the level of a Black Ant, which again, is weakening Yhwach’s power. And then by doing this, Yhwach get’s overpowered very easily by Ichibe.

Then we have the Almighty appearing:

As stated explicitly by Jugram, Yhwach’s strength was restored back to it's original level after the 9 years of regaining it passed, so that he could open his “eyes”, and wield the Almighty without losing control of it. And as explained by Yhwach, the Almighty is able to prevent all powers that he sees in the future from being used to harm him, which is why Ichimonji’s powers were useless against him and why Ichibe from this point onward got stomped.

There’s nothing here in this fight that says, or even implies, that Yhwach was given a stat boost. Arc is mis-epresenting this as a stat boost, when that isn't what this is. What happened was that Yhwach simply restored the strength Ichibe took away from him, something that Yhwach could already do without needing the Almighty. He then restored his strength back to it's original level after being re-named "black ant", which let him activate the Almighty after waiting for the 9-year requirement to be over at that moment. And then, Yhwach used the Almighty’s Power Nullification to nullify Ichimonji at the same time, preventing it from affecting him anymore. This is directly confirmed by Jugrams statement since Yhwach couldn’t have used the Almighty without first restoring his power. And with Ichimonji’s abilities being useless, Ichibei had no chance against Yhwach when the Almighty appeared, which is why Yhwach defeated him very easily by taking away all of Ichibei’s options against him. Yhwach's original level of power is simply > Ichibe, Yhwach wasnt fighting him with his true strength, and when finally getting his true strength back, Ichibe with his abilities nullified was powerless against Yhwach.

This is not a stat boost, this is restoring lost power. A stat boost is raising your stats above it's original level to obtain stats on higher levels, becoming stronger than where you were at originally. Restoring your lost strength is not a stat boost. You're simply restoring the strength that you originally lost. The 2 are being confused here.

We then go back to, once again, Jugram’s statement:

Here Jugram comments on the Almighty being Yhwach's true power and how now that he opened his eyes he has his full strength. This is clearly showing that Almighty Yhwach is stronger than any previous version we've seen. Further supported by him later one shotting Ichibe.

Arc on this point is right about one thing. Yhwach obtained his full strength when activating the Almighty. But the problem pivots back around to what I was talking about before. This is not a stat amp, this is Yhwach restoring the power he lost. The argument is playing this off as a stat amp when that's not the actual case. The statement from Jugram already got debunked before in my old counters, and here, so i’ll be quoting the rebuttals for that again too:

Almighty Scaling To AP​

Large misconception, and inconsistency, here with this. Nothing in Jugrams statement means the Almighty scales to Yhwach’s Attack Potency here.

First Issue: The Misconception​

Where in this statement does Jugram say the Almighty needs strength to be used in the first place? That's not what was said at all. The Almighty IS able to be used before Yhwach’s 9 years of restoring his power is up. What ISN’T able to happen is the Almighty being freely controlled. Jugram explicitly says that the Almighty could have gone out of control and absorbed the power of the Sternritters if Yhwach opened his eyes earlier, implying that Yhwach does not need his strength restored to activate Almighty to begin with, but that he does need his strength in order to freely wield it. This would have to be the case or else “going out of control” wouldn't be a viable possibility to begin with since the ability wouldn't be able to activate under this logic. Your arguments going under the idea that Almighty can’t be “used” in the sense that it cant be used at all without restored power, which is wrong.

Second Problem: Scaling to Attack Potency​

How is this supposed to mean Almighty scales to Yhwach’s attack potency? This isn’t as if Yhwach’s raw power is being put into Almighty when using it. What’s said is that for Ywhach to even open his eyes without losing control, he has to be strong, but that does not mean that the Almighty itself buffs his strength, nor does it mean Yhwach’s AP is regularly put into whatever the Almighty does. His raw power had to be strong enough, right before opening his eyes, to have control over the Almighty. Having the stats to control the Almighty is a prerequisite to using the power, not a result of activating the power itself. In other words, it is a caveat to using the Almighty, not a benefit from using it. It is a weakness, which is basic common sense for any character with an ability or technique and needing enough strength to, you know, use it properly.

Jugrams statement isn't talking about a stat amp or attack potency for the Almighty.

His statement is talking about Yhwach's power being restored to it's original level now that the 9 years of waiting was over. He was restoring the strength he once had, not gaining brand new never-before seen levels of strength. Only the latter is considered a stat boost. Ichibe being one shotted simply means Ichibe is weaker than Yhwach's original level of power and was only able to match up against the incomplete strength Yhwach used against him early in the fight. Once Yhwach regained full power + used the Almighty to negate Ichibe's abilities, it became a stomp.

My earlier counters also already debunked this logic on why this would scale to attack potency. It doesn't. Yhwach needing his strength restored to freely wield Almighty =/= his strength is regularly applied into the Almighty. Having full strength to control the Almighty is a prerequisite to using the power, not a result of activating the power itself. It is a caveat to using the power, not a benefit from using the power. It’s a weakness for the Almighty. Nothing here proves that strength is being put into the Almighty. Everyone reading this can again, refer to the analogy I gave and the characters who are in similar circumstances to this but don’t have their abilities scale to their strength:

This can be compared to an analogy of why this type of scaling doesnt work. This is like a child trying to carry a rocket launcher. He won’t be able to do it at his age, but when he grows up, he’ll be able to carry the rocket launcher and shoot out 8-B missles. Doesn’t mean the dude is anywhere near 8-B after growing up when doing that. It just means he became strong enough to support and fire the 8-B weapon.

And for what its worth, we also dont do this kind of scaling here for other series with similar circumstances. Is Deku now 7-B because he needed to be physically strong enough to wield and handle One for All, despite not being anywhere close to All Might's level when first using it? Is Roshi now 5-C reguarly because he needs to use up all of his energy to use Mafuba, a seal that can fail even when Low 2-C Goku tried using it without dying? Is Nagato 6-C regularly for having and Rinnegan, something that requires massively large quantities of chakra, and is something even above Nagato's individual power?

A child isn't able to carry a rocket launcher for being too physically weak to lift it at his age. When growing up, he becomes strong enough to lift the rocket launcher and shoot out 8-B missiles from it. Is the dude now 8-B for being physically able to use the rocket launcher? No, nowhere near it. It only means he became strong enough to support the 8-B weapon by holding it. In this scenario, Yhwach is the child and the Almighty is the rocket launcher.

To give more specific examples, we have characters under similar circumstances here where we don't apply this type of scaling.

My Hero Academia​

One for All is a 7-B power when in All Might's possession. When Deku is given O.F.A by All Might, Deku needed to be physically strong enough to wield O.F.A in order for his body to handle the power and not destroy himself with it. This even required him to train in order to make his body physically stronger. Yet, he isn’t anywhere near 7-B in the beginning of M.H.A. He’s only 7-B with 100% power in his Full Cowl form, his most recent form that he needed help from Eri to use. At the start of the series, wielding O.F.A. only makes Deku 8-C to High 8-C.

Dragon Ball​

Roshi is 5-C in his MAX form prior to DBZ and needs to use up his energy in order to use the Mafuba (Evil Containment Wave) seal, which can even kill you when you use it. Yet, the Mafuba isn't a seal powered by 5-C energy or energy on any tier since people far stronger than Roshi, like 3-A Trunks and Low 2-C Goku, used Mafuba without the slightest fatigue. Goku casually used Mafuba dozens of times during training to master it without tiring. Trunks used Mafuba on Zamasu without tiring out. The seal does not scale to a tier.

Naruto​

Nagato's power is 7-A individually despite having and using the Rinnegan, a 6-C power that needs massive quantities of chakra to use and is even above Nagato’s own power as it stands. Yet he doesn't scale to the tier of the Rinnegan.

We don’t accept this kind of scaling here. “Power needed to use an ability” does not mean the ability scales to your tier. It does not mean it scales to your attack potency. We don’t accept it for the formers, or in general, and the same would go for Yhwach and the Almighty.

Now we get to this bit on the Almighty breaking things in the final battle.

Later in the final battle Yhwach uses the Almighty to break Ichigo's sword (we later found out this was actually Aizen Kubo even draws the same marks on KS as a neat piece of foreshadowing that Aizen was Ichigo), but he fails to break the blade. So this means KS is relative somewhat to the Almighty and we know Aizen and Yhwach are somewhat relative to each other, which means Yhwach is relative to his own Almighty. Before you say "but but but he was under hypnosis", Aizen can't control what Yhwach sees and KS doesn't nerf someone's power it just messes with someone's senses.

This entire quote also has nothing to do with attack potency, and uses extremely flawed scaling. It’s ignoring the very basis of what the Almighty does. What the Almighty is doing against Ichigo’s Zangetsu and Aizen’s Kyoka Suigetsu is not launching attacks. It’s Fate Manipulation.

The power of the Almighty is to alter the future, which of course is Fate Manipulation:

Every “attack” Yhwach uses on Ichigo and Aizen is not literal conventional attacks that you could quantify as attack potency, as if he were physically striking them with a punch, cut or energy blast. It’s altering fate to attack them with Fate Manipulation. Ichigo getting his sword broken instantly is just Yhwach altering fate to a future where the sword is broken so it gets broken here. Ichigo getting his horn ripped off of him is just Yhwach altering fate to a future where the horn is torn off so it gets ripped off here. Ichigo getting slashed, even when Orihime blocks Yhwach's physical strikes with her shields, is just Yhwach altering fate to a future where he does slash Ichigo, so Ichigo gets slashed despite the defense. Simply put, it's Fate Manipulation that's used offensively. You can’t quantify Fate Manipulation as a normal attack in any way, it would be silly to try to as its very nature as a hax.

As for Aizen’s Kyoya Suigetsu not getting “broken” against the almighty, this falls down to a number of issues.

First, the definition of “broken”. Unless you're saying Yhwach meant for Kyoka Suigetsu to be cut in 2 like Ichigo’s bankai was, this really isn’t a point. Yhwach’s Almighty did it's job and cracked Kyoya Suigetsu. Cracking the sword IS breaking it. Yhwach doesn’t necessarily have to slice Kyoya Suigetsu into 2 pieces to make it broken. But this is a minor nitpick. The other issues are much more relevant.

Second, the bit about Aizen “not controlling” what Yhwach sees. Where did you get this idea from? Because that's exactly what Kyoka Suigetsu does, it's perfect hypnosis. Aizen literally scripted out a whole plan to get all captains and lieutenants in the Gotei 13 together to use his Shikai Release on them as the hypnosis ritual. Not to mention, your own counters disprove this claim. Yhwach saw Ichigo in the final battle, but it turned out to be Aizen who made him see Ichigo and interfered with the Almighty’s clairvoyance. How is any of this not controlling what illusions the victim sees? This makes no sense.

And third, we get to the flawed scaling being done here. As I said above, the Almighty isn't using normal conventional attacks against these guys, its Fate Manipulation used offensively. You can’t quantify Kyoka Suigetsu not breaking against Almighty as durability since its being broken by fate manipulation. At the absolute best, it's 3 things. Either Aizen has minor resistance to fate manipulation, the Almighty’s fate hax is less effective against people as strong as Yhwach is, or Yhwach never meant to slice Kyoka Suigetsu in 2 and the Almighty did what it was supposed to do, break KS by cracking it . Either way you slice it, this isn’t an attack with attack potency applied. Trying to scale this to Yhwach being relative to Almighty doesn’t work.

Now to get to the Ichigo bit:

Here we see another instance of the Almighty failing to break something, that something being Tensa Zangetsu, without KS active. So if you concede that Yhwach is universal with the Almighty, Tensa Zangetsu is relative to the Almighty.

This is the same as above. It’s Yhwach using offensive Fate Manipulation. And in this case, its not even trying to break Ichigo’s Tensa Zangetsu. Yhwach was smacking it away from Ichigo, who had to pivot and charge in the opposite direction to grab it, but was halted by Yhwach. Smacking the sword out of Ichigo’s hands isn’t exactly breaking the sword.

And even if this could somehow be scaled as conventional attacks and attack potency, this would be a huge outlier for Ichigo anyway. Ichigo in just a few chapters prior literally had Tensa Zangetsu broken in 2 the very instant he unleashed Bankai. And after getting stomped against Yhwach, his Quincy and Hollow powers were taken away from him. Yet, in two or so chapters later, Ichigo is able to survive another assault from Yhwach without Zangetsu being totally vaporized? That's an outlier.

The Reiryoku stuff doesn't need much comment either as it wont really matter without a quantifiable feat. The issues with it scaling to Attack Potency im going to be going over again in my response to IMade. But to be specific, that scan never actually specifies Reiryoku being used by Reio / Yhwach. It just says Reiryoku is present around the corpse. The said corpse was then made into the lynchpin, and the world escaped collapse. But it doesn't say Reiryoku specifically solved the collapse.

Now we get to this little bit involving stats negging hax:

Even then if you want to steel man it's a hax, we know that to some degree hax scales to one's physical stats as Aizen negs hax through raw power. Although, this point is a non-issue as none of the universal stuff in Bleach is done through hax.

A hax getting negated by raw power does not mean the hax is physically comparable to the one who negated it. That just means the hax has a weakness of not being effective against stronger opponents. Again, this is trying to correlate a hax to being physically comparable to stats when that isn't how hax works.

Next, we get to this part about the Soul King fragment:

Sigurd: "Grimmjow was glaring at Ikomikidomoe, grinding its teeth.
“However, the piece I have just eaten is enough for now.”
During its separation from Hikone, it robbed a part of the ‘Rei-o fragment’ lodged within Hikone. It’s
absorption of reishi from the atmosphere became more intense than ever as it condensed its violent
reiryoku.
“This piece of the Rei-o... hahahaha! That’s right! I remember my hunger! Oh yes!”
It appeared as though the devoured shard of the Rei-o had given it a great deal of power that weakened
the name-curse of the monk’s zanpakuto that had repainted its original name. At the same time, its
Hollow reiatsu exploded outwards, scattering the unusually dense reishi of the Kyogoku. Slaughtering
those in the Zero Division; that would be its first step towards vengeance. It opened its mouth to cry out
its true name.
“I was so desperate. I have waited for so long. My true name is-“

Here we see Ikomikomoe absorb a piece of the soul king. Absorbing this increases his power to the point he was able to overpower the name curse placed on him by Ichibei to regain his original power.

The same thing happened when Yhwach activated The Almighty because it increases his power overall.

This also isn’t a stat boost. It is the same thing that happened with Yhwach restoring his own power against Ichibe’s abilities when they fought.

Ikomikomoe absorbing a piece of the soul king restored his power back to the level it was originally at before Ichibe repainted its name with a name curse, which caused his power to decrease with a new name. It's the same thing as when Yhwach had his name repainted with black ant. This just means Ikomikomoe countered the name curse by using the soul kings power to restore his lost strength. Restoring your power back to where it was originally is not a stat boost. Thats just restoring your lost power. A stat boost, like I covered above, would be increasing your power beyond its original level, which is not the case with this.

The Almighty doesn't boost stats to new never before seen levels, Yhwach restored his own lost power. The Soul King's figment didnt boost Ikomikomoe's stats to new levels, it restored the strength he lost when ichibe gave him a new name. There is no stat boosting being done here.

And finally, to get to this small bit here:

The fact he was able to kill Ichibei with his TK now also proves this increases his power."

This also doesn't mean the Almighty increases anything, or that a stat boost in general happened. Ichibe was one shotted because Yhwach restored his lost power back to its original level after waiting out the 9 years he needed to wait through, which allowed him to freely control the Almighty and nullify Ichibe's abilities.

Prime Yhwach's power was >>> the Yhwach Ichibe fought. Non-Full powered Yhwach restored his strength back to what it was in his prime. Regaining his prime strength allowed him to use the Almighty without losing control of it. Prime Yhwach's strength is >>>> Ichibe. The Almighty nullified Ichibe's abiliities. Thus, Ichibe was stomped. Simple explanation for this.

TL;DR​

Everything Arc presented here is being taken out of context and applied incorrectly.

The evidence he uses to prove Yhwach boosts his stats with the Almighty is only referring to Yhwach just restoring his power back to its original level before using the Almighty. This is proven by Jugram's statement and Ichibe's abilities being able to weaken his power. Restoring your power to its original level is not boosting your stats. It’s bringing back what you used to have before. Arc is misrepresenting this as a stat boost. What should also be kept in mind is that not everyone on Arc’s side agrees with this being a stat boost as well.

The other evidence used to prove the Almighty scales to Attack Potency is using the assumption that the Almighty launches normal conventional attacks against Ichigo and the others, when that's not what the Almighty does. The Almighty is not launching conventional attacks. It is harming Yhwach’s opponents with Fate Manipulation used offensively by altering the future. Fate Manipulation can never be quantified as an attack with attack potency under any circumstance. Much less be scaled to other's physical stats.

And finally to end things here, the other evidence is Jugram's statement of Yhwach needing his power restored before opening his “eyes” so that the Almighty doesnt go out of control. But this also isn’t evidence of scaling Almighty to attack potency. Needing to be strong to do that is just a prerequisite to using the Almighty, not a result of using the Almighty. In other words, this is a caveat to using the power, not a benefit from using the power. It is a weakness for the Almighty. And as my analogy and examples pointed out, other characters have similar circumstances where we don't use this scaling, showing that we don't scale attack potency like this and should not be doing the same thing here.

None of the evidence here results in the Almighty boosting stats or scaling to attack potency.