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BlazBlue Upgrades

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It's strange but this infinite speed is similar to that of King of Fighters characters able to move in Dark Ash stage were time does not exist, or Soul Calibur characters are able to move in Soul Blade/Inferno stage were time does not exist, lastly Zen'o was possibly able to move in the void where time does not exist.
 
See my point now? This seems very inconsistent to their other feats. Everything else seems fine except the speed. If we accept this then that'll mean we'd have to do this for KoF and Soul Calibur characters since both situations are extremely similar.
 
We will likely redefine our immeasurable and infinite speed definitions soon. Currently they are likely far too lenient. After said revisions are done, all of the Blazblue characters would likely end up at Unknown speed ratings, so I do not recommend performing this change, and personally think that moving in a void without time should generally be treated as plot convenience or a hax instead.
 
In addition, such a rating seems extremely inconsistent.
 
Given that it seems like people started adjusted the character speeds to infinite, I strongly request that all such changes are immediately reverted to the previous values. Thank you.
 
I upgraded several pages, however i don't know how to set the stats of Ragna (Has a low 2-C feat), Noel (I don't know the difference in stats of Post-Chrono Phantasma and Mu-12), Azrael (Since the series ended, we should know his limits) and Gigant (If it gets upgraded).
 
Ragna should be the only one with the infinite speed then, since he got the true azure, a power greater than the M.Unit and the boundary
 
Brunout said:
Ragna should be the only one with the infinite speed then, since he got the true azure, a power greater than the M.Unit and the boundary
Click to expand...
Like Ant said, we should not worry about the Infinite speed ratings. Since a revision is coming up.
 
Actually, a few more questions: when it says that the True Black Beast can "destroy multiple worlds", does it ever elaborate? Is there an implied methodology or timeframe for such a thing occurring? If you could link the screenshot/point where this is stated, that'd make things a bit clearer, I think.

Also, if the True Azure is "the light from which the world sprang", as it's pointed out to be, would that make it the equivalent of a Big Bang-type event, or do you think that'd be too outlierish/vague? Of note, it's also noted that one can reset the world, if one returns all the world's souls to it.
 
About the black beast destroying "multiple worlds", is like this:

http://imgur.com/a/ykzJJ

Basically, M.unit doesn't like how the timeline is going, then she "send" the black beast to destroy the world. Then the timeline is reset, and she do it all over again..


I think that this big bang thing is too vague.


"it's also noted that one can reset the world, if one returns all the world's souls to it"

Yea, If I remember, Izanami wanted to do this after take-mikazuchi was defeated.
 
Umm, why is Nine and Hakumen and Makoto on par with the Black Beast? I mean according to the changes it took 14 5-As to beat it (All Nine remaining ten sages with comparable power, 100% Hakumen, Jubei,, Trinity and Terumi) backed up by an entire army. Also if we follow through this then base Ragna is already 5-A. Ragna was able to fight Terumi at the Azure Horrizon. Terumi gained a power boost by being close to a couldron when he fought Jubei and Hakumen at their prime and was easily beating the ever day lights out of them with ease. They only won because he got taken by surprise when Jubei forced out his spirit and was then tackled by Hakumen it no the boundary. The Azure generates seither like a couldron but the difference is that it's limitless. While Terumi got the power up Ragna was most likely weakened in his base form since the Azure had corrupted his body and it's shown that Ragna barely got through the boundary in CP despite having Tsukuyomi so while Ragna is weakened Terumi is strengthened at yet he beat Terumi in his base form. The fact Ragna surpasses full power Hakumen is supported by another fact. If you read my previous statement that you would understand that Ragna can basically curb stomp 70% Hakumen at CF seeing that In the Arcade full power Tsubaki is able to keep up with Hakumen at the time. And Ragna defeated her with ease. Jin was also able to keep up with Tsubaki and again Ragna can beat Jin and Noel. So we're seeing base Ragna 5-A or everyone getting downgraded to 5-B.
 
This also shows how fast the characters powers grow. During CT Ragna fought Hakumen who was sustaining himself with the power of order to 20% and Ragna had to use Blazblue to keep up with him but at The beginning of CP Hakumen fought Ragna again while under the observation of Konoe which doubled his power yet Ragna kept up with him without Blazblue showing that his power had increased by 4 times. Along CP Rachel starts to observe Hakumen increasing his power further yet full power Tsubaki, and Noel is able to keep up with him individually. Jin kept up with Full power Tsubaki in her arcade as he stated that they would exhaust each other out if they continued. So Jin, Tsubaki and Noel are able to keep up with 70% Hakumen and Ragna was able to beat Jin and Noel in base form with ease after he fought Terumi while most of his body is corrupted by the Azure. At the end of CF those who can keep up with Tsubaki, Jin and Noel at full power are also able to keep up with 70% Hakumen. In other words, end game Ragna is OP af.
 
Hakumen is on par with the Black Beast because of the 6 heroes, he was the only one who could battle with the black beast as an equal, stated by Nine.

About Nine, while she could definitely hurt it, was still below the beast
 
Shadowedge27 said:
Actually, Hakumen wasnt at 20% at the time. At CT Hakumen sustained himself by using the power of order to keep him at 20% but then Kokonoe starts to obsorve him which is stated to have about doubled his power so he was around 40% at the beginning of CP and then Rachel started observing him, boosting his power further. It wasnt specificly stated how much his power was but my friend speculated that he was around 70%. To be honest, most of this is based on what my friend told me and he has been following this series longer than I have.
Click to expand...
Correction, Rachel stops observing him and he has been slowly vanishing from existence since Chronophantasma. The end game Central Fiction Hakumen is no weaker than 20% but DEFINITELY no where near 70%.
 
So what? Black Beast = Hakumen<Jubei<Terumi when near a couldron<Ragna in base? Not just that Susanoo is stated to be no less than 100% Hakumen but he admitted that Black Beast and that he wanted to take all the worlds tha Ameteratsu created and turn them to his own image, into a world of despair where he can draw power form and only then will he surpass the Black Beast. The thing is Terumi close to the couldron is strong enough to take on Hakumen and Jubei while close the couldron with ease and BB is a couldron so if Hakumen 100% is equall to BB then why is Terumi not able to beat BB just as easily as he was beating Hakumen? Why did he need the Six heroes backed by an entire army?
 
And my statement about Ragna surpassing full power Terumi close to a couldron still stand who is stronger than Hakumen and Jubei at their prime. Not just that, Makoto is 5-A if you check her profile so base Ragna should also be 5-A or Makoto and those on par with her are turned to 5-B back since I don't she has shown a 5-A worth feat.
 
You guys are wrong. terumi is not stronger near a cauldron. Hakumen and Jubei are weaker near one. It was explained in Phase Shift 4, the novel.
 
No he doesn't. It was never stated that he get stronger near a cauldron. I dunno where you guys read it, but it's wrong. Not even Hazama, who is a grimoire, get's stronger near a cauldron.


Phase shift explained, Terumi DOESN'T get stronger near a cauldron. It's hakumen and Jubei who get weaker near a open one.
 
As Brunout said, Terumi doesn't get stronger near a cauldron, Jubei and Hakumen were weakened by it. Don't let that fool you though, just because he isn't as strong as Jubei and Hakumen doesn't mean anything considering he's just as strong, if not stronger than Nine. During continuum shift he beats Lambda, Hakumen, and Rachel all in succession without break. He left when he thought it would be too time consuming and bothersome, and managed to escape with Valkenhayn, Rachel, and Hakumen all attacking at the same time. Lastly, end game battle between Ragna and Terumi was a match he purposely lost.

Also where did Jubei being stronger than Hakumen come from? I'm pretty sure Hakumen was the only one capable of going toe to toe with the Black Beast in the first successful battle, and one of the only ones to do any actual noticeable damage. Jubei is strong, but definitely not at the level of Hakumen, nor does he have the same endurance.
 
This "jubei is stronger than Hakumen" come from a dialogue of Hakumen and Jubei, where Haku says "In a battle between us, I doubt that I would emerge victorious.

But Jubei himself said that Hakumen only said that to encourage him.
 
I've read it before, that's from the flashback in CS right? I think it's more of the fact that Jubei has one of the only weapons that can actually put Hakumen down or do sufficient damage, as it was the same one Terumi used to kill him.
 
Yep, It is.


Agreed. While Jubei is not strong as Hakumen, his weapon is something that could kill or harm Hakumen
 
Where was it stated that Terumi purposely lost his fight against Ragna? He clearly stated that he wanted the True Azure and recreate all the worlds Ameteratsu created into his own image. Its difficult to believe that Terumi will let Ragna kill him. He panicked when Jubei forced him out of Kazuma while he fought Jubei and Hakumen, he panicked when Trinity used her voodo magic on Hazama that paralysed both him and Terumi so that Hakumen can use time killer on him because it can kill. Terumi has shown that he is not willing to die so I dont think that Terumi will let Ragna win in fact he told Ragna to despair at his possiblity to be killed by Terumi. Also, no one answered my question about why Terumi couldnt kill the Black Beast. The Black Beast is a couldron that also releases seither so if Hakumen and Jubei were weakened by being close to a couldron then how can Hakumen be an equal to the beast if he is weaker than Terumi at the moment?
 
Terumi purposely lost his fight against Ragna in CS.

There's a difference. The black beast is a cauldron yes, but yet it hasn't connection with the boundary. If you go inside the Black Beast, you wouldn't be throwed into the boundary.

Jubei and Hakumen were not weakened by that open cauldron because of Seither. They were weakened because of the boundary.
 
Wouldnt Ragna also be weakened when he fought Terumi then? And unlike Hakumen and Jubei being weakened being close to the boundary he ws fighting terumi inside it and Terumi is shown to have the ability to travel through the boundary with ease while Ragna almost died despite having The ultimate defence Tsukuyomi. Hakumen can last in the boundary for a century while Ragna almost died in a day so Ragna is even more severly weakened than Hakumen while fighting Full power Terumi. Also in CP Azrael can kerp up with Hakumen with all his seals still on yet Kagura is able to force Azrael into a corner with three of his seals released, so how does that scale to?
 
Ragna wasn't weakened 'cause he is "protected" by his grimoire. So he wasn't weakened.


'Cause Kagura from centralFiction is stronger than Hakumen from CP who fought azrael.

Also, Azrael was with 4/5 seals released, not 3.
 
I was talking about the fight in Continuum Shift, it was all a part of his plan to infiltrate the Takamagahara system. There's nothing aiming at the fact that Terumi is stronger than Hakumen at all. He caught him by a surprise attack after he had already been fighting with multiple opponents using the only weapon that could actually really do him in. Susano'o on the other hand is undeniably more powerful than Hakumen just by what he does. Hakumen got beat by base Ragna at the end of CF, and Susano'o put Ragna to shame, along with everyone else that tried anything against him.
 
Hmmm.... After some thought on this, I've come to see a flaw. For starters, the 5-A category is misleading, as destroying multiple planets doesn't equal multi-planet level. It would be a higher degree of Planet level, as that gap is 47x. And given that this is a statement, we're assuming it destroyed multiple worlds at once or at a time? Like Anime Buu destroying a galaxy. It isn't galaxy level, but MSS. I don't see evidence to point out otherwise, unfortunately.

Low 2-C via hax doesn't seem off to me though.
 
I agree with Howard about the multi-planet issue. We will probably have to rename that tier to just Large Planet level at some point.
 
I think the power of the Black Beast is undetermined now. Rachel stated Izanami is as strong, if not stronger, than the Black Beast so ok sge can keep up if not beat BB but then she said that 'even Hakumen at full power will have difficulty beating her' so she is stating full power Hakumen is stronger than Izanami who is as strong if not stronger than BB? But full power Hakumen couldnt beat BB. Not just that in CF Many diffrent characters are able to keep up with her like base Ragna, Jin who Izanami stated was saving most of his power to fight Ragna and 20% Hakumen. In the wiki its stated the Black Beast is able to survive the abuse of many ars magus users who constantly syphoned its power and still able to fight, stating an entire army fighting alongside Hakumen Also if Hakumen and Jubei are weakened by being to close to the boundary then the same can be said for the beast. If you read Relius Clover's page he wss swallowed by the beast and thrown into the boundary which sent him to the future so BB still works like an ordinary couldron since its still connected to the boundary so Hakumen and Jubei should be still weakened. My hypothesis about this is linked to the hypothesis that the Beast grows the longer it lives. Maybe full power Hakumen kept up with BB when it first appeared but then after 4-6 years of growing its power grew to the point it far surpassed Hakumen. Also I dont know if this scales to anything but in CF Rachel stated that not even Ameteratsus phenomenon intervention can penetrate Tsukuyomi but in CP she stated Take mikazuchi can break through it if it continued its assault and Take is based on BB.
 
Rachel said that Izanami is stronger than black beast IN A WAY.

Like Rachel said , "The black beast can be killed. Unlike Izanami". That's why Izanami was "stronger"


Full power Hakumen couldn't beat BB because to kill the black beast, you must kill Nu inside of it. the moment that Ragna did it, Hakumen was able to kill it. Something that he did.

Relius was NOT swallowed by the beast. He fell into the cauldron moments before the black beast was "born".
 
Wasn't the Tsukuyomi Unit incomplete or something like that? I could of sworn it was mentioned in CF somewhere, but I don't remember exactly.

As for the Hakumen thing also take into consideration that the Black Beast still would have more advantages even if they were equal. For example it's size, regenerative ability, and it's multiple heads. It's a bit difficult for a single person to deal with multiple heads at once, and even when cutting them off they still move around and attack on their own.
 
Okay never mind, in the sub-scenario of Episode 5 Chapter 039, Nine claims that the Take Mikazuchi would be able to knock the Tsukuyomi Unit away, but not destroy it. Relius claims that the Tsukuyomi Unit is in an "incomplete" form.
 
Really? Hmm, I've got ya watch that cause I haven't seen any of the sub-scenario so sorry. This might sound a bit off topic but does anyone have any idea how Hakumen's time killer will effect BB with heart or is it possible that since BB is immune to Ameteratsu phenomenon intervention time related powers have no effect on him and also who's Ragna's dad? It's revealed by Relius his mom is Epsilon but I don't know who's his dad... And where was it stated Ragna's Grimmore was protecting when he was fighting Terumi? As far as I know the Azure Grimmore doesn't have such ability cause Hazama believed that he would die falling into the boundary and his entire body is a Grimmore also The first two trips Ragna had through the boundary scrambled his memories and almost killed him. Did his Azure Grimmore somehow evolved or something because like I said, haven't seen the si scenario. Thank you.
 
Is this discussion going anywhere, or should we close this thread?
 
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