Black Clover: Top & God Tiers CRT

[CloverDragon03]

Please if possible can you provide scans for this, can't really remember but I think what he did was absorbed mana not their respective attacks.

First why will licht scale when he didnt do this alone? Let me rephrase why will he scale when he needed help from everyone to do this,
He would get a (Higher with conquering eon) not another key.

First, I'll elaborate that I'm suggesting what you're saying. His present key would look like this: "High 6-B, higher with Ultimate Sword Magic." As for scans, Licht refers to the attack as a full-force attack done by him and his companions, and he asks for them to lend him their power.

This was a hax tho, it is called ignoring durability. It won't warrant a new key. And besides I'm sure this yami doesnt scale to the likes of lumiere here.

Yami is below Lumiere to some unknown extent, but he is capable of damaging Zagred who scales to High 6-B, so he should roughly be around that area. As for Black Divider, nothing suggests it ignores durability. After regenerating from just his heart, all Zagred says is that they can't kill him, claiming that magic from their world can't do so. However, Licht was also affected by the underworld due to becoming a demon, which Zagred notes earlier. Since both Licht and Asta have the power of the underworld that can actually affect him, Asta being able to slice Zagred's heart when Licht couldn't damage it is based on power only. It makes sense too, since Black Divider is an amp done by pouring more Anti-Magic in to make his sword stronger.

It wouldn't be a new key. It would be a part of his Elves' Invasion key (Low 6-B, 6-B in Black Asta, High 6-B with Black Divider)

 

[PrinceofPein]

First, I'll elaborate that I'm suggesting what you're saying. His present key would look like this: "High 6-B, higher with Ultimate Sword Magic." As for scans, Licht refers to the attack as a full-force attack done by him and his companions, and he asks for them to lend him their power.

Okay this is what I am saying litch won't be high 6-B.
He said "my companions and I" not me, it took combined power of multiple people not just litch to perform the high 6-B feat so why will he be high 6-B?.
The power of the conquering eon varies on those are providing him with mana, so yes the only thing he will gain is a higher added to his previous key

Yami is below Lumiere to some unknown extent, but he is capable of damaging Zagred who scales to High 6-B,

It was a hax again, or wasn't it dimensional slash?

so he should roughly be around that area. As for Black Divider, nothing suggests it ignores durability. After regenerating from just his heart, all Zagred says is that they can't kill him, claiming that magic from their world can't do so. However, Licht was also affected by the underworld due to becoming a demon, which Zagred notes earlier. Since both Licht and Asta have the power of the underworld that can actually affect him, Asta being able to slice Zagred's heart when Licht couldn't damage it is based on power only. It makes sense too, since Black Divider is an amp done by pouring more Anti-Magic in to make his sword stronger.

Uhhmmm anti magic works by negating magical energy, which is what what happened here, he negated zagred regeneration. So it makes no sense to say it was not a hax feat.

 

[Epsilon_R]

It was a hax again, or wasn't it dimensional slash?

Only Yami has Dimension Slash, why would Asta have it? This doesn't look like a Dimension Slash anyway. Asta did not use hax to slice his heart unless you can prove otherwise

Uhhmmm anti magic works by negating magical energy, which is what what happened here, he negated zagred regeneration. So it makes no sense to say it was not a hax feat.

His heart isn't magical as far as we know, so he would still scale to the heart's durability

 

[CloverDragon03]

Licht himself is High 6-B for damaging Zagred’s body. Conquering Eon would be higher into High 6-B.

Licht is 102.85 teratons, Conquering Eon is 320.73 teratons.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also, Yami has damaged Zagred before without Dimension Slash. His attack cut off Zagred’s tail.

In addition, regeneration negation has nothing to do with it. Conquering Eon couldn’t damage Zagred’s heart, while Black Divider sliced through it. Basically:

Black Divider > Zagred’s heart durability > Conquering Eon

 

[PrinceofPein]

Only Yami has Dimension Slash, why would Asta have it? This doesn't look like a Dimension Slash anyway. Asta did not use hax to slice his heart unless you can prove otherwise

Please read well before you reply. He said yami hurt Zagred so he scales to high 6B. But yami used dimensional slash so yes its a hax move

His heart isn't magical as far as we know, so he would still scale to the heart's durability

Wiat what?
His heart is not magic??
Must be ment

Licht himself is High 6-B for damaging Zagred’s body. Conquering Eon would be higher into High 6-B.

Licht is 102.85 teratons, Conquering Eon is 320.73 teratons.

Oh I get now, I thought you scaled licht to conquering eon

In addition, regeneration negation has nothing to do with it. Conquering Eon couldn’t damage Zagred’s heart, while Black Divider sliced through it. Basically:

Black Divider > Zagred’s heart durability > Conquering Eon

Except black divider negates magic and durability from magic

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

Yami damaged Zagred without dimension slash.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Please read well before you reply. He said yami hurt Zagred so he scales to high 6B. But yami used dimensional slash so yes its a hax move

I was talking about Black Divider, my bad

Wiat what?
His heart is not magic??
Must be ment

His heart isn't magical, unless everyone in the verse is made of magic or something

Oh I get now, I thought you scaled licht to conquering eon

Yeah, Licht himself doesn't scale

Except black divider negates magic and durability from magic

Zagred's isn't a magical being, why would his heart be magical?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Why would a devil's heart be made out of magic?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bump (I think it's been 12 hours)

 

[StrawHatArslan]

If pain doesn’t have anything left to say, I think these can be applied

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well we need to see what Pain has to say about the rebuttals. To summarize them:

• Licht is not scaling to Conquering Eon, they both may be High 6-B but Conquering Eon is some ways into it (320.73 teratons) while Licht is nearly baseline (102.85 teratons)
• Yami has damaged Zagred without Dimension Slash. An example would be his Dark-Cloaked Lightless Slash cutting off Zagred's tail.
• Black Divider doesn't involve durability negation. There is a lack of evidence toward the idea of Zagred's heart being made of magic, so we can't assume that to be true. As such, Black Divider scales to Zagred's heart's durability and, by extension, Conquering Eon.

 

[joshpiece]

Ahh I hate BC upgrades but I agree. This is all super vaild .

Seems like staff and regular members agree with the exception of pain but it looks like his issues have been explained and combated.

 

[Zezu1995]

asta is pure hax tho, its not like he can output that power he just negates or repels them.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We can place an AP on him because he’s able to damage people with certain levels of durability. He’s not purely hax.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

asta is pure hax tho, its not like he can output that power he just negates or repels them.

What... No... Where did you get the idea that Asta is pure Hax from?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What... No... Where did you get the idea that Asta is pure Hax from?

Also me right now ^

 

[joshpiece]

Yes Asta even has the strength to break iron.

 

[PrinceofPein]

If pain doesn’t have anything left to say, I think these can be applied

I'm still iffy on scaling of a asta that is weaker than those who can't kill zagred to zagred heart, I mean the reason he could do that was cause of anti magic energy effect.

asta is pure hax tho, its not like he can output that power he just negates or repels them.

Huh?
No he is not, btw anti magic is also a form of magic (BC databook)

Well we need to see what Pain has to say about the rebuttals. To summarize them:

• Licht is not scaling to Conquering Eon, they both may be High 6-B but Conquering Eon is some ways into it (320.73 teratons) while Licht is nearly baseline (102.85 teratons)

Yes this has been resolved

• Yami has damaged Zagred without Dimension Slash. An example would be his Dark-Cloaked Lightless Slash cutting off Zagred's tail.

Yes although I dont think yami scales to litch 102.85 teratons, but well we can give him this.

• Black Divider doesn't involve durability negation. There is a lack of evidence toward the idea of Zagred's heart being made of magic, so we can't assume that to be true. As such, Black Divider scales to Zagred's heart's durability and, by extension, Conquering Eon.

Zagred is a demon, their entire existence is made of magic

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

Either way he won't scale and nobody should, there is the scan it was only because of anti-magic and nothing more, it was a hax move.

He should just get idk how to word it but let me drop what he can do in black divider form.
1. He pushes anti magic to the tip.of his blade hence any slash is anti magic.
2. He is drawn into high magic, which makes it hard to dodge for people with high level of magic (he was drawn in by yuno zephyr and the demon magic, I can provide the scans later).
3. The flat side of the sword can be used to reflect magical attacks back


So yes asta stays in his current rating and he definitely won't be scaling to lumiere, litch or the likes.
Yes he can scale to yuno zephyr who can also harm zagred (I don't know if this is valid since he did it together with asta) but anyway but asta and yuno here are weaker than those that scales to litch

 

[CloverDragon03]

The quote says “Anti-Magic works on him,” when even beforehand when Asta managed to block Zagred’s spear, characters like Licht and Secré were already having that same idea. This seems to have more to do with the fact that Asta could actually nullify Zagred’s magic. Yuno was betting on Asta because he wasn’t strong enough to do it himself (Zagred even thinks to himself later in the fight that Yuno can’t pierce his heart, despite Spirit of Zephyr having the same devil-affecting properties of Anti-Magic and Licht/Lumiere’s magic).

Devils aren’t made of magic. That doesn’t even make sense with Liebe’s entire existence, for example, since Liebe had none. I mention Liebe since it directly contradicts the idea of devils being made of magic.

 

[joshpiece]

i agree with Dragon, i don't even know where the claim devils are just pure magic came from

 

[CloverDragon03]

I’m not sure either, but I’ll summarize what I’m saying like this:

Licht’s magic, Spirit of Zephyr, and Anti-Magic can all kill devils due to having underworld properties in some way (Licht being affected by the underworld, SoZ being made up of mana from those who can affect devils, and Anti-Magic coming from a devil). Despite this, SoZ was stated to be unable to pierce Zagred’s heart and Conquering Eon couldn’t damage it either, while Black Divider could slice it.

Thus, on top of devils not being made of magic, all of these having that same property means that Black Divider doing what SoZ and Conquering Eon couldn’t was strictly due to power. In addition, Black Divider is an amp done by pouring more Anti-Magic into the sword to make it stronger. As such, this makes sense.

 

[Epsilon_R]

I'm still iffy on scaling of a asta that is weaker than those who can't kill zagred to zagred heart, I mean the reason he could do that was cause of anti magic energy effect.

Asta himself doesn't scale, only Black Divider does (Basically his durability will stay at 6-B). Asta only scales in his later transformations after the timeskip and his fight against Zagred

 

[CloverDragon03]

Black Divider is only for AP and Striking Strength, yeah.

 

[PrinceofPein]

i agree with Dragon, i don't even know where the claim devils are just pure magic came from

Anti magic is a form of magic itself tho.

Black Divider is only for AP and Striking Strength, yeah.

Yes, but the reason why black divider could do that is cause of its anti magic properties not cause of asta AP or strength

 

[CloverDragon03]

Its Anti-Magic properties are unrelated to slicing Zagred’s heart, as I’ve explained before.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Its Anti-Magic properties are unrelated to slicing Zagred’s heart, as I’ve explained before.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

No it is

Literally stated there that he avoided asta attack to his heart cause of the anti magic property

 

[CloverDragon03]

I’ve explained why this is more likely in reference to Asta’s ability to negate Zagred’s attacks more than anything else.

The line itself also seems so out of place given that... why would Yuno say only Anti-Magic works when Licht and Lumiere have magic that can affect him like Anti-Magic does? Its magic negation doesn’t contribute to anything besides nullifying Zagred’s attacks, so it comes off as odd.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I’ve explained why this is more likely in reference to Asta’s ability to negate Zagred’s attacks more than anything else.

The line itself also seems so out of place given that... why would Yuno say only Anti-Magic works when Licht and Lumiere have magic that can affect him like Anti-Magic does? Its magic negation doesn’t contribute to anything besides nullifying Zagred’s attacks, so it comes off as odd.

I think you should read well, only anti magic works on his heart(yes the heart that you granted the 300+ teraton) yes its only anti magic that can kill him.permanently.
"Anti magic power works on him thats why he avoided that attack to his heart and why the damage got him mad, if we can score a solid thrust to his heart with asta sword........"

Yep anti magic

Just like the Dante, yami can attack and damage him, but only anti magic deals the permanent damage

 

[Epsilon_R]

I think you should read well, only anti magic works on his heart(yes the heart that you granted the 300+ teraton) yes its only anti magic that can kill him.permanently.
"Anti magic power works on him thats why he avoided that attack to his heart and why the damage got him mad, if we can score a solid thrust to his heart with asta sword........"

Anti-Magic works on him just like Licht's magic does. The difference being Asta Negates Regeneration while Licht doesn't
Also, what Yuno said is "Anti-Magic works on him, so he avoided that attack to his heart". That doesn't mean only Anti-Magic can affect him at all

Just like the Dante, yami can attack and damage him, but only anti magic deals the permanent damage

Again, due to Regeneration Negation, that doesn't mean Asta's attacks wouldn't scale to him as he still needs to be strong enough to slice him

 

[joshpiece]

Just like the Dante, yami can attack and damage him, but only anti magic deals the permanent damage

Isn’t that just due to the nature of his regen and how Asta can nullify it.

I think you are not quite understanding how Asta still has to be physically strong enough to damage somebody.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anti-Magic works on him just like Licht's magic does. The difference being Asta Negates Regeneration while Licht doesn't
Also, what Yuno said is "Anti-Magic works on him, so he avoided that attack to his heart". That doesn't mean only Anti-Magic can affect him at all

Uhhmmm yes my point exactly what he used against the heart was anti.magic a hax not pure strength so yes he is not scaling.
All of them can harm him just fine even those weaker than licht 108 teratons can harm zagred (asta inclusive)
But asta anti magic allows him to negate the magic on his heart.
Its a hax not pure strength he won't scale

Again, due to Regeneration Negation, that doesn't mean Asta's attacks wouldn't scale to him as he still needs to be strong enough to slice him

Still same thing.
Yami there is way stronger than asta, seeing as he fondled a Dante than ragdolled the entire guild, but he could not deal a killing blow something he needed asta anti magic for.

Even during the fight yami had to save asta twice while holding his own against Dante

So yes as example if yami scales to 100 joule, asta would be let say 50 joules then have something added, can negate durability with anti magic.
Its as simple as this no need for mental gymnastics what asta was using is anti magic not pure strength.

Isn’t that just due to the nature of his regen and how Asta can nullify it.

I think you are not quite understanding how Asta still has to be physically strong enough to damage somebody.

I never said asta is not physically strong enough, but I am saying asta is not scaling above licht for something done with hax.
Or u think asta own physical stats is way more than, licht and everyine that performed conquering eon combined??
Hell no.


So yes asta hax makes it possible for him to damage people way above him due to the fact that durability comes from.magic that he can negate.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Uhhmmm yes my point exactly what he used against the heart was anti.magic a hax not pure strength so yes he is not scaling.

We already told you Asta himself doesn't scale to Licht's Ultimate Magic. You keep misreading posts...

All of them can harm him just fine even those weaker than licht 108 teratons can harm zagred (asta inclusive)

We are talking about the heart's durability, not Zagred himself, so why are you bringing up his regular dura?

But asta anti magic allows him to negate the magic on his heart.

Once again, his heart doesn't have magic nor has magic in it aside from the mouth he grew to regenerate his body, which he grew AFTER being hit Licht's Ultimate Magic.

In other words, his heart, even before using magic, was still durable enough to be unaffected by Licht's Ultimate Magic.

So Black Divider slicing his heart would still scale to the heart's durability, regardless of Regen Negation

Its a hax not pure strength he won't scale

We already told you, Asta himself doesn't scale, only Black Divider does.

Still same thing.
Yami there is way stronger than asta, seeing as he fondled a Dante than ragdolled the entire guild, but he could not deal a killing blow something he needed asta anti magic for.

No that's not the same thing...
Yami landed lethal blows on Dante more than a handful of time, all he lacked was Regeneration Negation to defeat him. Once again, Asta only negates Regeneration so he still needs to be strong enough to land a deep slash in Dante in the first place

We are not saying Asta his superior to the Yami that fought Dante, we clearly see Yami doing more damage to him than asta does, but that still doesn't mean Asta can't scale to Dante

Even during the fight yami had to save asta twice while holding his own against Dante

That doesn't prove Asta isn't strong enough to wound Dante.
To begin with, Asta sliced Dante after he makes a deal with his devil to gain a power boost. Yami saving Asta was before Asta makes said deal, don't take things out of context

So yes as example if yami scales to 100 joule, asta would be let say 50 joules then have something added, can negate durability with anti magic.
Its as simple as this no need for mental gymnastics what asta was using is anti magic not pure strength.

Asta can't negate durability dude..

I never said asta is not physically strong enough, but I am saying asta is not scaling above licht for something done with hax.
Or u think asta own physical stats is way more than, licht and everyine that performed conquering eon combined??
Hell no.

We already told you that Black Divider, which is Asta's enhanced weapon, scale to Licht's Ultimate Magic, with Berserk Mode and Devil Arm (Abilities he gains far later in the series) scaling far above that.

So yes asta hax makes it possible for him to damage people way above him due to the fact that durability comes from.magic that he can negate.

Prove that Zagred's heart dura comes from his magic then. And before you try, Regeneration =/= Durability

 

[PrinceofPein]

We are talking about the heart's durability, not Zagred himself, so why are you bringing up his regular dura?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

please read carefully and dont argue with scans

Once again, his heart doesn't have magic nor has magic in it aside from the mouth he grew to regenerate his body, which he grew AFTER being hit Licht's Ultimate Magic.

please provide a scan for ur statement "His heart has no magic"
sounds dumb (not you the argument that zagred heart is not magical, how does that even sound to you?)

In other words, his heart, even before using magic, was still durable enough to be unaffected by Licht's Ultimate Magic.

So Black Divider slicing his heart would still scale to the heart's durability, regardless of Regen Negation

We already told you, Asta himself doesn't scale, only Black Divider does.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

But it effects is negating magic by coatng the tips of the sword with anti magic, which is still a hax
i am tired of all this head canon please drop scans for your claims
1. zagred heart is not magic
2. black divider doesnt use anti magic

No that's not the same thing...
Yami landed lethal blows on Dante more than a handful of time, all he lacked was Regeneration Negation to defeat him. Once again, Asta only negates Regeneration so he still needs to be strong enough to land a deep slash in Dante in the first place

That doesn't prove Asta isn't strong enough to wound Dante.
To begin with, Asta sliced Dante after he makes a deal with his devil to gain a power boost. Yami saving Asta was before Asta makes said deal, don't take things out of context

still doesn't change the fact that asta cant hold his own against dante compared to yami. the only thng asta has was the anti magic that helped.
he is considerably weaker than both dante and yami

Asta can't negate durability dude..

tf is this
asta negates magic and mana the source of their durability but he doesnt negate their durability made from mana and magic?
lol

We already told you that Black Divider, which is Asta's weapon, scale to Licht's Ultimate Magic, with Berserk Mode and Devil Arm scaling far above that.

a hax it doesnt scale, simply negates magic, mana, regeneration e.t.c.

Prove that Zagred's heart dura comes from his magic then. And before you try, Regeneration =/= Durability

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

argue with the scans and ur opinion or what you think does not matter please provide scans, thank you

 

[joshpiece]

Just because anti magic works on him doesn’t mean it ignores his durability. That’s two completely separate things.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No its the same his durability comes from magic and mana which anti magic negates
try again

 

[Epsilon_R]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

please read carefully and dont argue with scans

please provide a scan for ur statement "His heart has no magic"
sounds dumb (not you the argument that zagred heart is not magical, how does that even sound to you?)

You are the one that needs to prove Zagred's heart is magical. Not only, there isn't any scan that backs up his heart being magical, but there are devils like Liebe who don't have a single drop of Magic, by your logic, they wouldn't have a heart to live in the first place.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

But it effects is negating magic by coatng the tips of the sword with anti magic, which is still a hax
i am tired of all this head canon please drop scans for your claims
1. zagred heart is not magic
2. black divider doesnt use anti magic

1. See the above, besides you're the one that needs to prove it's magical
2. Black Divider uses Anti-Magic, I never said it didn't. But you still need to prove that his heart is magic

still doesn't change the fact that asta cant hold his own against dante compared to yami. the only thng asta has was the anti magic that helped.
he is considerably weaker than both dante and yami

Irrelevant

tf is this
asta negates magic and mana the source of their durability but he doesnt negate their durability made from mana and magic?
lol

Mana isn't the source of their durability, where did you get that from?

a hax it doesnt scale, simply negates magic, mana, regeneration e.t.c.

We told you. Asta's. Physicals. Don't. Scale.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/846998641264558110/Screenshot_20210526-072908.png

argue with the scans and ur opinion or what you think does not matter please provide scans, thank you

Your scan doesn't even says it negated dura. If anything, Yuno was referring to the Regen Negation of Anti-Magic

Also, chill a bit please

 

[PrinceofPein]

You are the one that needs to prove Zagred's heart is magical. Not only, there isn't any scan that backs up his heart being magical, but there are devils like Liebe who don't have a single drop of Magic, by your logic, they wouldn't have a heart to live in the first place.

i never made any claim you are the ones making a claim that a heart that can talk is not made from magic, so please bring the scans
zagred =/= liebe, besides anti magic is also another form of magic/energy
please tell me reason why liebe was considered trash

1. See the above, besides you're the one that needs to prove it's magical
2. Black Divider uses Anti-Magic, I never said it didn't. But you still need to prove that his heart is magic

1. it can ******* talk, perform magic and regenerate from, move around please dont act dumb
you made a claim its not made from magic so please scans
2. yes it uses anti magic that negates magic and mana and regeneration and durability. there you go

must be a dull thinking asta stronger than everyone combined

Mana isn't the source of their durability, where did you get that from?

tf is this?
whats the source of their durability?,
chakra, nen, reaitsu?
please humor me

We told you. Asta's. Physicals. Don't. Scale.

neither will a hax scale

Your scan doesn't even says it negated dura. If anything, Yuno was referring to the Regen Negation of Anti-Magic

Also, chill a bit please

no yuno was not, he was saying that they cant damaged the heart but asta can with his anti magic and sword.

try again

 

[joshpiece]

1. it can ******* talk, perform magic and regenerate from, move around please dont act dumb
you made a claim its not made from magic so please scans

Is Dante made out of magic now? That doesn’t prove it’s magic in any way.
YOU MADE THE CLAIM THE HEART WAS MAGIC THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU
Said claim :

Zagred is a demon, their entire existence is made of magic

 

[joshpiece]

tf is this?
whats the source of their durability?

Show any scans that prove magic is the source of their dura.

Stop making these claims and then saying it’s on us to prove a negative.