BLACK CLOVER CRT: THE UNDERWORLD (1 of 3 Additions)

[speedster352]

Cause the heart can’t defend itself on its own and Noelle believed that just a tiny dagger of Saint Stage Magic would kill it if she just landed a clean hit

Devil Heart’s aren’t far more durable than Devil’s Body’s because they can’t defend themselves at all, they aren’t like lumps of steel

I thought this only scale zagred didn’t you and Mitch agree to this?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Cause the heart can’t defend itself on its own and Noelle believed that just a tiny dagger of Saint Stage Magic would kill it if she just landed a clean hit

Devil Heart’s aren’t far more durable than Devil’s Body’s because they can’t defend themselves at all, they aren’t like lumps of steel

The heart can and has defended itself against Arcane Stage and Gaja’s Magic that turns life force to power. So the Devil Heart not being able to defend against Saint Stage which purifies their literal existence is far fetched? No.

First of all, what makes you think she wasn’t referring to a weak point on the heart she wanted to stab? The “it” refers to the heart, the “weak point” refers to what’s on the heart. Counter that logic.

 

[Panache_x]

The Conceptual and Heart durability issues kinda overshadow Others
Still skeptical about the Self Sustenance Type 3

 

[WrongIdea21]

Alright so the last thing well apart from the P&A is Zagred’s devil heart.

Zagred Heart is fine but another devil doesn't show that kind of feats yet.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Still skeptical about the Self Sustenance Type 3

The logic behind this is that High Ranking and above Devils can survive as just a heart indefinitely. No lungs or organ at all is needed for oxygen or for their speech.

 

[Panache_x]

The logic behind this is that High Ranking and above Devils can survive as just a heart indefinitely. No lungs or organ at all is needed for oxygen or for their speech.

I highlighted Type 3 for a reason
That's what I need info on

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I highlighted Type 3 for a reason
That's what I need info on

Isn’t Type 3 lack of Oxygen?

Edit: Oh it’s restful.

 

[Panache_x]

Isn’t Type 3 lack of Oxygen?

Edit: Oh it’s restful.

Ok u know what it is now
So...?
Is Type 3 still applicable?
Type 2 is ok

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ok u know what it is now
So...?
Is Type 3 still applicable?
Type 2 is ok

So there is physical and magic stamina or mana pool.
When magic runs out physical stamina wears down a bit or considerably (on a case by case basis and Tabata said in a Q&A that it wears down a bit). Devils never run out of magic, they regenerate and they don’t feel pain so they can fight without rest indefinitely. That’s my logic behind it.

 

[Panache_x]

So there is physical and magic stamina or mana pool.
When magic runs out physical stamina wears down a bit or considerably (on a case by case basis and Tabata said in a Q&A that it wears down a bit). Devils never run out of magic, they regenerate and they don’t feel pain so they can fight without rest indefinitely. That’s my logic behind it.

A statement of them "never running out of Magic" exist?
Cause basing it on "they haven't been shown to" would be shallow
Fighting without rest is also a shallow context
Not experiencing pain in the slightest would help tho...

 

[Arnoldstone18]

A statement of them "never running out of Magic" exist?
Cause basing it on "they haven't been shown to" would be shallow
Fighting without rest is also a shallow context
Not experiencing pain in the slightest would help tho...

There is no statement, it's just mages being surprised that they still have magic after all their expenses. They never run out because they absorb magic from their surroundings so I'm not appealing to ignorance.

 

[Panache_x]

There is no statement, it's just mages being surprised that they still have magic after all their expenses. They never run out because they absorb magic from their surroundings so I'm not appealing to ignorance.

Being surprised wouldn't do
Anyways can u provide scans for that Constant Absorption?
I think that would validate it

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Being surprised wouldn't do

I didn't say being surprised would count, I was just letting you know there was no statement.

 

[Arkenis]

Will Julius be low 6-b or 6-b or stay 6-c?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Will Julius be low 6-b or 6-b or stay 6-c?

At the very least, comparable to Dark Triad. At 6-B

 

[Arkenis]

At the very least, comparable to Dark Triad. At 6-B

Excellent

 

[Deceived3596]

Zenon:

Resistance to Deconstruction and Corrosion (Capable of fighting by Yuno's passive deconstruction as well as resisting the effects of Yuno's corrosion due to the bone's hardness and regenerative speed), Power nullification (Absolute Space: Spatial Domination negates spells and prevents the caster from casting any more spells within range)

Fine with deconstruction but disagree with Corrosion.

He isn't actually resisting the corrosion but rather his bones regenerate fast enough for the corrosion to be a non-factor against him.

Dante:
More Power Nullification (Presence of demon king can collapse portals ), Immense Pain Tolerance (Does not feel pain despite his body constantly getting slashed and blown away in battle), Weapon Creation (Capable of morphing rocks into a sword), Large Size (Type 0), Size Manipulation (capable of growing several meters)

Will be added to the power nullification already on his profile. Dante is using Lucifero's spells as the devil host.

Agree with Power Nullification but i would re-word it, since Dante isn't actually just collapsing portals within that scan but rather he completely negated Finral's Spatial Magic in general.

Immense Pain Tolerance isn't an ability, so that should be move down to his stamina.

Weapon Creation should be limited at most since it requires material around him to actually "create" weapons and that he can only create melee weapons, it isn't something like Quincy's Weapon Creation for an example.

Remove Large Size but keep Size Manipulation, Large Size is only reserved for characters which are naturally large, not characters who attain large size via something like Size Manipulation, which is what Dante did.

ZAGRED:

Creation and Summoning (Can summon physical matter such as weapons from nothing via "Storm of Blades"), Earth Manipulation (via Word Soul Magic; "Earth Shield"), Fire Manipulation (via Word Soul Magic; "Wave of Flames"), Limited Death Manipulation (via Word Soul Magic; "Wither"), Limited Matter Mnaipulation (Capable of bending matter to his will),

Vanica:

Pain Tolerance (Does not feel pain despite being continuously impaled in combat),

Nacht:

Flight (Levitation and True-Flight with Mana Zone), Clairvoyance in Felis Mode (With Heaven's Door: Second Sight, Nacht is capable of sensing mana and peering through shadows to watch events. Even across the continent to watch the black bulls from Spade Kingdom).

He can use Manazone in base

Naamah & Lilith:

Natural weaponry (via claws)

Megicula:

Pain Manipulation (any curse megicula inflicts causes intense pain)

As the Father of all curses, she gains the ability to cast any curse shown in Black Clover.

Status Effect Inducement (Curse power can cause the skin to keep bleeding out despite merely suffering a scratch), Time Manipulation (Charlotte's parents were trapped in a cage of time with a curse) Resistance Negation and Resistance to Sealing (Can negate the effects of Charlotte's roses, which have anti curse properties), Sense Manipulation (Curse magic is capable of hindering the five senses), Absorption (Henry's curse absorbs magic power from anyone in range), Disease Manipulation (Curse magic can cause sicknesses), Limited transmutation (Charlotte's roses turned from red to blue as an effect of her curse), Fire Manipulation, Acid Manipulation and Plant Manipulation (Gordon's family is affiliated with Curse Magic and his family made a contract with Megicula), Oil Manipulation (Gordon's Father uses oil based curse magic), Information Analysis (Nathan is capable of reading Asta's temperature and serach for physical abnormalities in his body), Clairvoyance (Nathan is capable of using Cursed Candle Ritual Disk to know the locations of every cursed individual in Clover Kingdom. The accuracy is reduced when range is increased to cover other countries), Resistance to Healing (Curses prevent wounds from healing).



Lucifero:

Power Nullification (Presence of demon king nullify spells), Power Bestowal (via Devil contract, Devil hosts can use all the abilities of a devil and draw devil power from the devil),

Then all of Dante's Gravoity Magic spells.

Zagred -

Change Limited Death Manipulation into something like Limited Age Manipulation since the act of withering is more so align with Age Manip rather then Death Manip, also denote that it isn't applicable against anything that isn't plants since this didn't affect Yami or Charlotte as shown in the scan.

Everything else is fine and i agree with it.

Vanica -

Immense Pain Tolerance isn't a thing, so that feat should be noted in her stamina section of the profile.

Nacht and Naamah/Lilith -

Agree with everything for those characters.

Megicula and Lucifero -

Agree with everything for both of those characters, Power Bestowal for Lucifero should be noted within the Devil Physiology tbh, rather then just on Lucifero's profile.

Asta:

Resistance to Social Influencing,

No scan nor explanation so i have to just inherently disagree with this based off that alone.

Until scans for this comes up that's my position.

Idc about the rest.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He isn't actually resisting the corrosion but rather his bones regenerate fast enough for the corrosion to be a non-factor against him.

His bones regen faster than his corrosion could work. I feel like that should be noted on his profile as something if not a resistance feat since the corrosion is nonexistent at that point.

It’s an important feat.

Agree with Power Nullification but i would re-word it, since Dante isn't actually just collapsing portals within that scan but rather he completely negated Finral's Spatial Magic in general.

Okay

Immense Pain Tolerance isn't an ability, so that should be move down to his stamina

Resistance to Pain Manipulation is

Weapon Creation should be limited at most since it requires material around him to actually "create" weapons and that he can only create melee weapons, it isn't something like Quincy's Weapon Creation for an example.

On the Weapon Creation page it’s okay to use material around. So limited is unecessary and would lead to people to believe he is having even more difficulty to create weapons than what’s on the Weapon Creation page.

Remove Large Size but keep Size Manipulation, Large Size is only reserved for characters which are naturally large, not characters who attain large size via something like Size Manipulation, which is what Dante did.

Okay

Zagred -

Change Limited Death Manipulation into something like Limited Age Manipulation since the act of withering is more so align with Age Manip rather then Death Manip, also denote that it isn't applicable against anything that isn't plants since this didn't affect Yami or Charlotte as shown in the scan.

Yeag forgot to change it when @Arkenis suggested.

Immense Pain Tolerance isn't a thing, so that feat should be noted in her stamina section of the profile.

Resistance to Pain Manipulation ?

Agree with everything for those characters

Okay

Agree with everything for both of those characters, Power Bestowal for Lucifero should be noted within the Devil Physiology tbh, rather then just on Lucifero's profile.

Okay, for high to highest ranking

No scan nor explanation so i have to just inherently disagree with this based off that alone.

Until scans for this comes up that's my position.

Okay, but the logic behind that was his unwavering determination. No one can talk him out of his long or short term goals or fights.

Idc about the rest.

Meh

 

[Deceived3596]

His bones regen faster than his corrosion could work. I feel like that should be noted on his profile as something if not a resistance feat since the corrosion is nonexistent at that point.

It’s an important feat

Note it in his regen.

Easy fix.

On the Weapon Creation page it’s okay to use material around. So limited is unecessary and would lead to people to believe he is having even more difficulty to create weapons than what’s on the Weapon Creation page.

Personally disagree with what's stated on the Weapon Creation page but since it's stated i'll give my agreement towards the full rating.

Resistance to Pain Manipulation is

Resistance to Pain Manipulation ?

Nothing proves either are resisting Pain Manipulation.

Both feats prove they have high pain tolerances, that's it.

We don't give people resistances towards Pain Manipulation just because they have feats of high pain tolerances.

You either need a statement or the characters inherent physiology to prove such a thing.

Okay, but the logic behind that was his unwavering determination. No one can talk him out of his long or short term goals or fights.

That doesn't really prove he's resistant towards Social Influencing.

It really only proves he has a strong will and is extremely determined in his beliefs and actions, that's it.

I personally would be fine with the compromise of Possible Resistance towards Social Influence tho.

 

[Panache_x]

Nothing proves either are resisting Pain Manipulation.

Both feats prove they have high pain tolerances, that's it.

We don't give people resistances towards Pain Manipulation just because they have feats of high pain tolerances.

Hmmm
Wouldn't a character be Resistant to pain irrespective of it being manipulated or not if he has high Pain tolerance?
Like the key factor in pain manipulation is the Opponent not being able to Tolerate the Pain
If he can ... it'll be useless
Except Pain Manipulation is usually on an another level above Normal Conventional Pain?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Note it in his regen.

Easy fix.

I thought regen was for the body alone not the attack, Also let’s not forget the bone’s hardness is vastly superior to Yuno’s capabilities pretime skip. Pretime skip Yuno’s Zephyr worked on rocks that were superior to iron and steel. Failed when he met 55% Zenon, beat 70% post time skip and failed 100% Zenon so Yuno ignored the bones with an attack that would blitz Zenon before he reacts with them.

Against Devil Zenon, Yuno’s Star magic vaporized the bones instead. And this just gave me an idea thanks @Deceived

So shouldn’t the bones hardness give it resistance? Though not sure why regeneration is a problem, I’ll take you suggestion about it into consideration I guess.

Personally disagree with what's stated on the Weapon Creation page but since it's stated i'll give my agreement towards the full rating.

Thank you, I understand, but the page implies that someone creates weapons out of stuff that isn’t a weapon.

Creation page is from nothing to something.

Weapon encompasses weapon existence from nonexistence as something else or nothing. while Creation covers “existence” so it’s all things non existence to existence.

You used the logic for creation for weapon creation right?

Nothing proves either are resisting Pain Manipulation.

Both feats prove they have high pain tolerances, that's it.

We don't give people resistances towards Pain Manipulation just because they have feats of high pain tolerances.

You either need a statement or the characters inherent physiology to prove such a thing.

@Panache_x post already mentioned most of the things I wanted to talk about.


And there are many profiles with “pain tolerance” (pan is linked to pain manipulation and tolerance linked to resistance) feats.

And it makes sense to me since attacking the nervous system is a form of pain manipulation. Most of the body literally getting blown away wouldn't count? Jack constantly slicing the body with hundreds of slashes wouldn’t count? The nervous system is literally nonexistent at this point. Even if the head is slashed.

That doesn't really prove he's resistant towards Social Influencing.

It really only proves he has a strong will and is extremely determined in his beliefs and actions, that's it.

I personally would be fine with the compromise of Possible Resistance towards Social Influence tho

No problem, the possible resistance should be fine.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Resistance to Pain Manipulation (Shows no signs of pain regardless of the damage suffered)

Self Sustenance: (Type 1)

Bumpy

These and other changes have been applied to OP

 

[Arkenis]

bump

 

[Panache_x]

So what's the decision on Megicula's proposed Time Manipulation

 

[16sa_vage]

So what's the decision on Megicula's proposed Time Manipulation

Seems I’ve missed a lot.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Seems I’ve missed a lot.

Managed to convince CloverDragon on Discord with some help that the Devil Heart durability stuff only applies to Zagred. I'm just waiting for his official response here.

We are still debating

• Resistance to Pain Manipulation for taking severe damage that would cause extreme pain
• Asta's possible resistance to Social Influencing due to his stubborn nature
• Megicula's Time Manipulation via a curse that traps Charlotte and her family in a cage of time.
• Self Sustenance (type 1)

Take a look at the OP again for more info. Almost done sorting out the kinks.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Resistance to Pain Manipulation for taking severe damage that would cause extreme pain

Doesn't pain manipulation have to do with mind related stuff like causing them to feel pain and not causing pain by inflicting damage? This is just pain tolerance and would be a stamina feat

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

Resistance to Pain Manipulation for taking severe damage that would cause extreme pain

This is just immense tolerance to pain...

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Doesn't pain manipulative have to do with mind related stuff like causing them to feel pain and not causing pain by inflicting damage? This is just pain tolerance and would be a stamina feat

It’s also used on nervous system

Which is the main reason why I added it because taking lethal damages causes immense pain. Dante took about 50 slashes and regenerated with each slash in a short amount of time and he felt 0 pain, even smiling. Vanica smiles to literal stab wounds. Zenon has same logic. The dark triad and devils dont feel pain from their nervous system.

it’s supposed to be Pain Tolerance but people are saying it’s not an ability despite both Pain Manipulation and Resistance pages linked to the word and the word being used in many profiles.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don’t even mind it being on the stamina section so no one should take my argument for unwillingness. I’m just lost as to why so many pages have it and are continuously being added.

I’ll just go ahead and add it to stamina section

 

[Tatsumi504]

It’s also used on nervous system

Which is the main reason why I added it because taking lethal damages causes immense pain. Dante took about 50 slashes and regenerated with each slash in a short amount of time and he felt 0 pain, even smiling. Vanica smiles to literal stab wounds. Zenon has same logic. The dark triad and devils dont feel pain from their nervous system.

it’s supposed to be Pain Tolerance but people are saying it’s not an ability despite both Pain Manipulation and Resistance pages linked to the word and the word being used in many profiles.

It hasn't been that long but they should have been a staff discussion about nuking pain tolerance as an ability. As for why some pages still have it, I have no idea.

Being able to shrug off physical pain doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to withstand psychic/mental induced pain

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It hasn't been that long but they should have been a staff discussion about nuking pain tolerance as an ability. As for why some pages still have it, I have no idea.

Being able to shrug off physical pain doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to withstand psychic/mental induced pain

Yeah no problem, but still keep in mind that pain manipulation is nervous system based too, so that page might need a rework.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Okay, I have changed the OP and it looks good.

Now I am comfortable enough to ask for votes.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

After seeing this develop

We reach the conclusion than only Zagred has a heart that can resist Arcane attacks?

And we don´t scale Zagred hearts properties to Megicula, Naamath/Lilith or Lucifero?

What is the conclusion about Holy/Saint stage not needing to surpass the durability?

 

[Arkenis]

I don’t even mind it being on the stamina section so no one should take my argument for unwillingness. I’m just lost as to why so many pages have it and are continuously being added.

I’ll just go ahead and add it to stamina section

I had several pages with pain tolerance as a resistance to, dk where this came from but it should be applied as a resistance especially since stamina should be about energy reserve and lasting long in fights

 

[16sa_vage]

Managed to convince CloverDragon on Discord with some help that the Devil Heart durability stuff only applies to Zagred. I'm just waiting for his official response here.

We are still debating

• Resistance to Pain Manipulation for taking severe damage that would cause extreme pain
• Asta's possible resistance to Social Influencing due to his stubborn nature
• Megicula's Time Manipulation via a curse that traps Charlotte and her family in a cage of time.
• Self Sustenance (type 1)

Take a look at the OP again for more info. Almost done sorting out the kinks.

Interesting, although I’m having an issue with the resistance to pain manipulation.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Interesting, although I’m having an issue with the resistance to pain manipulation.

Issue has been resolved

 

[Arkenis]

Inorganic physiology as a disembodied consciousness (Type 1)

why would it be inorganic if its already inorganic. like we don't give spirits inorganic phys right

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Final change to the OP. again.

Everything should be good.

 

[speedster352]

Final change to the OP. again.

Everything should be good.

So can the changes be applied?