• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Black Clover: Ancient Demon Size

To begin with the "20km, 60km" sizes of the Mountains are scaled from the Castle which in the shot used to scale Mountain appears far smaller in comparison to the shot with Demon in it.

Even if we were to pretend the Demon size isn't inconsistent, we should use the castle size to scale the size of the Demon. It would give a far lower result.
 
I mean just take a look at the Castle and Mountain, then compare their sizes in this shot lol. (This shot is what suggests 20km/60km height of the Mountain btw)


Now compare that to the one in Giant Demon shot. It's easy af to tell the difference.

In fact the clover kingdom being several hundred kilometers wide like the currently applied calculation suggests itself is wacky (it doesn't have a solid basis either). But not gonna get into that.
 
Isn't that more of a pixel scaling issue than anything? Pixel scaling is inherently going to be flawed in some way so I'm not sure if that's a reliable counterpoint.
 
No. That is the severely inconsistent visual representation of size of the Mountain in case you consider the Mountain we see in Giant Demon's shot to be it's entirety.

The Demon should be scaled from size of the castle, not the size of the Mountain that's been calculated from some other panel which is inconsistent with every other panel with the clover Mountain in it, including the very panel in which we're doing the scaling.

Castle:Mountain ratio in Demon panel is 1:10 while in the panel used to find size of mountain it's 1:100. I mean it's too obvious, idk how no one noticed the fault with doing it that way.
 
And ofc there is no "several hundred kilometers" Clover Kingdom based on the evidence we have, neither from pixel scaling not from in-series statements. Afaik.

Both the calcs for size of kingdom considered what should be outskirts of kingdom as the outskirts of Noble realm for some unknown reason. I pointed this out before and it's soon changed to something else.

And that something else is a statement where the map guy says they're several hundred kilometers away from royal capital. Nothing suggested they were still inside clover kingdom.
In fact, the contrary is implied considering their barren, mountainous surroundings which is the same as the description of Diamond Kingdom. The consistently inconsistent visual representation to add on to this not to mention.
 
Nerd1435 said:
And ofc there is no "several hundred kilometers" Clover Kingdom based on the evidence we have, neither from pixel scaling not from in-series statements. Afaik.

Both the calcs for size of kingdom considered what should be outskirts of kingdom as the outskirts of Noble realm for some unknown reason. I pointed this out before and it's soon changed to something else.

And that something else is a statement where the map guy says they're several hundred kilometers away from royal capital. Nothing suggested they were still i. nside clover kingdom.
In fact, the contrary is implied considering their barren, mountainous surroundings which is the same as the description of Diamond Kingdom.
Click to expand...
They're located in an area with abundant grass and hills. That's pretty much how the Clover Kingdom looks. It might be hard to tell in the manga, but from how the anime depicts the scene they're clearly still within Clover kingdom. And if they were outside of it, I'm sure the Map guy would also say as much since entering enemy territory is often made clear within the series.
 
Hm I didn't know that about the anime and I should recheck the manga too. If that is the case, I think several hundred kilometers works and it is more likely that they're in royal capital. I can't think of a counter I would consider proper for now (besides the obvious visual representation stuff)

Anyway regarding this specific calculation I stand on what I said. Castle should be used to scale the Demon in case we're doing it.
 
Oh yeah, this thread exists. Well, I've given my stance so I don't think I should say much else besides if I feel a counterargument is necessary.
 
I can understand that. However, the issue is that the number of steps to scale the demon using the castle is the same as the number of steps taken to scale the mountain using the castle, as the demon is at least the height of the mountain as shown in numerous shots. In other words, the same level of consistency (or inconsistency if you will) would occur in both methods.

Using the castle, it goes: Patry -> Tower -> Castle -> Demon

Using the mountain, it goes: Patry -> Tower -> Castle -> Mountain (demon is of similar size so assign the value of the mountain height to it)
 
I don't think you're getting the point.

The Mountain size that Mitch is using has been scaled from Castle size in a panel different from the panel with Giant Demon and the Mountain in it (aka the main panel we're using to scale the size of the Demon)

In that panel, the Mountain is like 50x larger than castle.

But in the panel with Giant Demon (the main one), the Mountain is only like 5-10x larger than the Castle. Even if Giant Demon is larger than the Mountain, the same panel should be used to scale the size of Mountain.
 
For example look at the first 2 panels and then the last one. The size of castle wrt mountain seems significantly larger in both those panels compared to the 3rd one. (Also note that in 1st panel we're actually looking from below and the Castle appears shorter than it should be, and still it appears larger compared to 3rd panel)

This isn't limited to those 2 panels, almost every panel goes against the size difference between castle and mountain being as large as 3rd panel depicts.

If your argument is that it isn't full mountain, then demon shouldn't be scaled to the full mountain since it wouldn't be standing at the very base either.

 
If scaling the Demon to the Mountain is wrong, that's fine, just use another method that doesn't involve the Mountain. However the Demon being relative to humans in size is obviously an art Inconsistency
 
That part, I can definitely say is due to limitations in what can be drawn in a panel, especially a smaller one, while being able to show everything that needs to be shown. I believe it should be written off as such.
 
Literally every shot where the Giant Demon is shown alongside the Mountain, the Castle is clearly visible and significantly large in comparison.

It is more than likely because the Demon isn't at the very base of the Mountain/outside the Mountain in those shots. The Demon came sprinting towards the Castle and also reached close enough you could see that in the pictures, even the buildings at its feet in 3rd picture (I think)

And not to mention, those aren't exactly "small panels" or small enough for there to be such a drastic difference. (Not to mention mangaka draw on a large screen and shrinks them afaik if it's digital art) You guys are just holding on to the possibility of scaling Giant Demon to the maximum possible size of the Mountain you can get among every other panel.


 
The fact that there's supposed to be a bustling metropolis at the height of (at least) 20 KM is already mind-boggling, but as far as the demon is concerned, my understanding is that he was climbing the mountain and not on flat ground far away - which would explain the fact that the palace appeared much larger in relation to the "mountain" height in the images with the demon compared to images without the demon

TL;DR : The demon is much smaller than Clover Kingdom mountain. It can't be scaled to the mountain
 
Doesnt the demon hand also reaches the top of the mountain?
lTE9Rev.png
 
The most inconsistent thing in entire manga is the height of this mountain. The amount of results for the mountain proves this, it should not be used for scale
 
Last edited:
DragonGamerZ913 said:
Oh boy I hope y'all are ready for a long one because I've admittedly been waiting for this thread. Okay, so while I understand the reasoning for being against using the demon's size, I think it should be used. The main reason is that I've noticed a pattern with when the demon is comparable to the Clover Kingdom mountain and when it's not, and it's a pattern that's very easy to attribute to design limitations.

Take these two shots for example:
YomWwvN.jpg


UXYHnqO.jpg

In both of these, there aren't any humans in the panel that the demon is in to restrict the size it can be drawn at, not to mention they're all spreads or large panels, which allows the demon's size to be drawn more accurately. Hence, every instance of the demon being at the size of the Clover Kingdom mountain is a spread or a large panel.

On the other hand, here are examples where the demon is depicted as being much smaller:
mrX3mjW.jpg
zWoryIs.jpg

Like before, there's a pattern. With this, it's that there are humans present in both shots (which is true for the entirety of the demon's 2 chapters of existence). On top of that, the panels are generally smaller. These are simply design limitations that force the demon's size to be less than it really is so as to ensure that everything that needs to be visible is visible. I believe that this shouldn't be accounted for in regard to the demon's size because the times where the design isn't limited by such factors depict a consistent size; that size would be at least the size of the Clover Kingdom mountain.

Now, I saw someone mention this image and that it further shows an inconsistency:
pr34KTr.jpeg

On the contrary, I believe this shot actually proves my claim more. Yeah, humans are visible in that shot, but it's also a large panel, and it shows that even with humans present, when there's a large panel, the demon gets drawn to be the size of the mountain, not a size to accommodate for the humans. Basically, the mountain size took priority over the size of the humans.

TL;DR / Conclusion: The demon's size is only "inconsistent" when faced with design limitations such as smaller panels and humans being present. When it doesn't have those limitations, it's consistently the size of the Clover Kingdom mountain. In fact, the one time there's a large panel with humans present, making the demon the size of the mountain takes priority over making the demon a size that accommodates for the humans, further showing that the size of the mountain is the intended size of the demon and should be used.
Click to expand...
I think these images clearly point to the fact that the demon was climbing the mountain

First Image : Notice that the mountain stretches past the panel boundaries and the demon's posture - like he's climbing an incline
Second Image : The mountain stretches past the panel boundaries again, and also note the size of the palace compared to the section of the mountain that is visible
Final Image : Again the palace is relatively large compared to the section of the mountain that is visible
 
Don't know why this thread was brought back all of a sudden, but sure, I can agree to not scaling that mountain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Joshyyy_64
  • Locked
(: Dante AP Upgrades :)
2
Replies
51
Views
3K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Arc7Kuroi
  • Locked
Holding Arnold's Hand
2 3
Replies
86
Views
5K
Armorchompy
Armorchompy
Luci5678
black clover speed problem
Replies
32
Views
3K
Arnoldstone18
Arnoldstone18
Joshyyy_64
Lucifero Gets AP Upgrades
Replies
22
Views
1K
Testarossa002
Testarossa002
AstaDragon123
  • Locked
Black Clover : FTL+ again
2 3 4
Replies
121
Views
9K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Back
Top