Black Clover: Ancient Demon Size

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok, so I wanted to make a discussion thread for this as I know it is a contentious topic and should probably be discussed

In this calc, I got 6-B to 6-A results based on the Ancient Demon's height being comparable to the Clover Kingdom Mountain, which was found to be around 20 to 60 Kilometers, the issue is that I know some people will have with this is that this height is inconsistent as we can see the Ancient Demon's height compared to human beings is not nearly as big as the Clover Kingdom Mountain

The question is whether to write this off as an art inconsistency or to treat this as a sign not use the calc at all since the calc is solely reliant on the size of the Demon being that big, honestly I am pretty neutral on this topic, but I am sure both sides are very passionate about their arguments for sure, so I will deliberate from what they say

Of course any regular users can give their arguments either in support or against the ratings

 

[M3X_2.0]

There's also this shot, where you can see humans characters near him. What I think is what we currently do to every single verse where size inconsistency is something: Don't calc feats using the big boy. Just like Naruto with the Bijus and summonings.

 

[KingTempest]

Agreed with above. First it's comparable to mountains, then humans? Nah.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Watching for now, but agreeing w/ the above

 

[Duedate8898]

Personally, I think it's for the best to not try and use the demon's size for anything but it's own size. No fear of over inflating ratings or worrying about the inconsistent size.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Oh boy I hope y'all are ready for a long one because I've admittedly been waiting for this thread. Okay, so while I understand the reasoning for being against using the demon's size, I think it should be used. The main reason is that I've noticed a pattern with when the demon is comparable to the Clover Kingdom mountain and when it's not, and it's a pattern that's very easy to attribute to design limitations.

Take these two shots for example:

In both of these, there aren't any humans in the panel that the demon is in to restrict the size it can be drawn at, not to mention they're all spreads or large panels, which allows the demon's size to be drawn more accurately. Hence, every instance of the demon being at the size of the Clover Kingdom mountain is a spread or a large panel.

On the other hand, here are examples where the demon is depicted as being much smaller:

Like before, there's a pattern. With this, it's that there are humans present in both shots (which is true for the entirety of the demon's 2 chapters of existence). On top of that, the panels are generally smaller. These are simply design limitations that force the demon's size to be less than it really is so as to ensure that everything that needs to be visible is visible. I believe that this shouldn't be accounted for in regard to the demon's size because the times where the design isn't limited by such factors depict a consistent size; that size would be at least the size of the Clover Kingdom mountain.

Now, I saw someone mention this image and that it further shows an inconsistency:

On the contrary, I believe this shot actually proves my claim more. Yeah, humans are visible in that shot, but it's also a large panel, and it shows that even with humans present, when there's a large panel, the demon gets drawn to be the size of the mountain, not a size to accommodate for the humans. Basically, the mountain size took priority over the size of the humans.

TL;DR / Conclusion: The demon's size is only "inconsistent" when faced with design limitations such as smaller panels and humans being present. When it doesn't have those limitations, it's consistently the size of the Clover Kingdom mountain. In fact, the one time there's a large panel with humans present, making the demon the size of the mountain takes priority over making the demon a size that accommodates for the humans, further showing that the size of the mountain is the intended size of the demon and should be used.

 

[Yoyco]

Now, I saw someone mention this image and that it further shows an inconsistency:

On the contrary, I believe this shot actually proves my claim more. Yeah, humans are visible in that shot, but it's also a large panel, and it shows that even with humans present, when there's a large panel, the demon gets drawn to be the size of the mountain, not a size to accommodate for the humans. Basically, the mountain size took priority over the size of the humans.

TL;DR / Conclusion: The demon's size is only "inconsistent" when faced with design limitations such as smaller panels and humans being present. When it doesn't have those limitations, it's consistently the size of the Clover Kingdom mountain. In fact, the one time there's a large panel with humans present, making the demon the size of the mountain takes priority over making the demon a size that accommodates for the humans, further showing that the size of the mountain is the intended size of the demon and should be used.

Won't really agree or disagree with the size stuff, but in that last panel. The Demon is nowhere as big as the mountain, it's just the perspective.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It’s the size of the mountain. It’s basically the same as the “I’ll join forces with a devil” panel but zoomed out

 

[Yoyco]

It’s the size of the mountain. It’s basically the same as the “I’ll join forces with a devil” panel but zoomed out

Actually in both those panels. The Demon is depicted as smaller than the mountain and mages are able to seen from those shots, now that I notice it.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's not. It's just perspective. The mountain is in front of him, and it's bigger than him. If something is far away from you, and even with the distance the thing is bigger, it'd be a lot bigger if it's closer. Hard to explain, but easy to understand.

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

Even if the demon isn’t bigger then the mountain in that one panel the point about it only being smaller when humans need to be visible still stands. There isn’t really a way to show the demon and humans without shrinking it down but without that limit it is always shown as tall or taller then the mountain as far as I can see.

 

[Epsilon_R]

What dragoon said

I also agree with Gamer

As for the panel with the demons facing each other, the mountain is actually smaller than the demon and not the opposite. It could have been perspective if the demon wasn't literally at the bottom of the mountain

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

I agree with dragoon

 

[CloverDragon03]

Same here. Dragoon summed up my point.

 

[M3X_2.0]

There isn’t really a way to show the demon and humans without shrinking it down

Thanks for confirming the inconsistency.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It’s not really an inconsistency if it’s merely the result of design limitations.

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

Thanks for confirming the inconsistency.

No one was really denying that the size is different if that’s what you mean.

 

[M3X_2.0]

No, it's called inconsistency. There is no such thing as "design limitations". If the demon is that big, then he'd be like that in literally every panel.

 

[CloverDragon03]

No, it's called inconsistency. There is no such thing as "design limitations". If the demon is that big, then he'd be like that in literally every panel.

Yes there is, especially since you’re not always going to have big panels or spreads, so fitting everything you want to fit will come with some limitations. The panels I sent basically prove this.

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

No, it's called inconsistency. There is no such thing as "design limitations". If the demon is that big, then he'd be like that in literally every panel.

Well he explained the reason for that inconsistency

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

The only way to show what the humans are doing and show the demon is to either scale up the humans or scale down the demon otherwise the humans would be too small to make out. Yet whenever that isn’t an issue it is always shown comparable and taller then the mountain.

 

[M3X_2.0]

are you guys really gonna ******* spam like that?

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

His reason does make sense and seems consistent that when it’s drawn small there are humans in the same panel with the demon and when he’s drawn big it’s by itself

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

are you guys really gonna ******* spam like that?

Why so rude?

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

Ah yes three different people responding to a post in a small timeframe is spamming. How were we supposed to know the others were gonna post?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yes there is, especially since you’re not always going to have big panels or spreads, so fitting everything you want to fit will come with some limitations. The panels I sent basically prove this.

Completely irrelevant. Doesn't matter if the author doesn't always have double pages to represent the size of the demon. He could just make the humans or any other character small enough to the point of not being compared with the demon. You have only one scan where the demon has the same size of the mountain, and in literally every other panel he is smaller.

Well he explained the reason for that inconsistency

He did not. Doesn't metter if the inconsistency has x, y or z justifications, it still an inconsistency.

The only way to show what the humans are doing and show the demon is to either scale up the humans or scale down the demon otherwise the humans would be too small to make out. Yet whenever that isn’t an issue it is always shown comparable and taller then the mountain.

Exactly, it just proved that the demon isn't that big, he isn't portrayed like that, he is relative to humans, trees and buildings in size. You are just giving excuses for an inconsistency, and it really doesn't matter, inconsistency is inconsistency.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Ah yes three different people responding to a post in a small timeframe is spamming.

 

[M3X_2.0]

We now reached a point where doesn't matter how inconsistency the size of something is, but if you have EXCUSES for it, it's fine to use.

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

So are you accusing us of being sock puppet accounts now or what?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yeah I literally said that. Can you focus on the main point here?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Completely irrelevant. Doesn't matter if the author doesn't always have double pages to represent the size of the demon. He could just make the humans or any other character small enough to the point of not being compared with the demon. You have only one scan where the demon has the same size of the mountain, and in literally every other panel he is smaller.

Not that easy, hell one of the scans I sent was of a small panel to demonstrate such limitations and the humans were REALLY tiny, yet that still doesn’t work. Yes, there are limitations.

Also, please stay civil. I don’t want this to become a full-blown argument

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

We now reached a point where doesn't matter how inconsistency the size of something is, but if you have EXCUSES for it, it's fine to use.

Not excuses it’s a justified with some solid logic

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

And it is true that if he has to draw the demon in a smaller panel it would most likely come out smaller then when he has a full panel to draw it in not just limited to double spreads

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah I literally said that. Can you focus on the main point here?

You’re unnecessarily rude just because people disagree. Have you ever considered there are 3 separate active people in a discord that are planning their responses?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Not that easy, hell one of the scans I sent was of a small panel to demonstrate such limitations and the humans were REALLY tiny, yet that still doesn’t work. Yes, there are limitations.

Limitation doesn't matter

Author needing to draw both humans and demons, doesn't matter

What matters is if the size is consistent. You literally posted a lot of scans and only one of them proves your point. Do you really think the demon has 23km while you can see humans near him? Only they have hundred of meters in size. That's obviously not the case.

Not excuses it’s a justified with some solid logic

Same as excuses, You doesn't not justiy a mistake. Inconsistent is a mistake

 

[M3X_2.0]

You’re unnecessarily rude just because people disagree. Have you ever considered there are 3 separate active people in a discord that are planning their responses?

yeah yeah whatever. Focus here.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

yeah yeah whatever. Focus here.

You brought this up, don’t try to sweep away your mistake under the rug.

Regardless, I agree.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Let’s try to keep this civil everyone

 

[M3X_2.0]

don’t try to sweep away your mistake under the rug.

So you want to discuss this here Milly? Ffs, I don't care about my mistake, just focus

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

So you want to discuss this here Milly? Ffs, I don't care about my mistake, just focus

We could, like I just said, I agree with OP.