Bill Cipher Revisions

[Icyhawk43]

Hello. Please understand that I love Gravity Falls and would love to see it have a character in such a high tier, but I have to mention these things that bug me whenever I vist this page. If these points are addressed, it would make my day.

1: Universal+ AP rating for having his weirdness be able to spread across the universe, one shotting Time Baby, and being a 4D being.

Nothing supports it would have taken over the entire universe. The main thing was the Wave he made, but that was covering Multi-City at best. Please provide evidence it would go universal.

Time Baby has no Durability feats and he was taking a 3D form during that.

One life-span, three dimensional, five cent skin puppets could be him being salty becuase he's not 3D. (at the time.) After all, he sure looks flat. And he's from the 2nd Dimension. Adds up in my book.

2: Multiversal+ AP rating for Time Baby stating the rip would grow and destroy the very fabric of existence.

This one is very annoying. It is clear as day that the rip was made by the Interdimensional Rift being broken. Not Bill. He just summoned things from it. If Bill could attack and make rips like that, why didn't he do that to start taking over the world? He had to use the Rift to make it.

3: Speed Immeasurable for his Multi-Dimensional Makeover.

Could be referring to him becoming 3D. He does turn into a Pyramid when he never did before. Adds up in my book.

Plus the Mystery Shack Mech hit him twice, Dipper and Mabel outran him, and Mabel spray-canned him.

4: Durability Multiverse Level+ for not being concerned about the collapse of existence and survived destroying everything in the second dimension.

Yet he got his eye ripped out and a hole shot in his hat.

Him liberating the second dimension? You could say Lord Boros' liberated the universe, yet he's Planet Level. After all, it is clear he didn't DESTROY the second dimension.

Everything else is A-Okay though!

 

[The_Everlasting]

1. He's Low 2-C due to completely destroying the concept of time with his mere presence. Additionally, he did not feel remotely threatened by the Time Baby. If Time Baby was powerful enough to pose a threat to Bill, Bill would have been genuinely scared as opposed to just faking it.

2. Except the rift was growing because of Bill's antics, it may have been there, but it wouldn't have grown if Bill had just remained in the universe and changed nothing.

3. Bill was already 3-D during the beginning of Weirdmageddon 1, and killing the Time Baby made him 4-D due to gaining total control over time itself.

4. Those two things were done by things specifically designed to harm him, and thus don't count towards his durability towards natural attacks.

 

[Icyhawk43]

1. He's Low 2-C due to completely destroying the concept of time with his mere presence. Additionally, he did not feel remotely threatened by the Time Baby. If Time Baby was powerful enough to pose a threat to Bill, Bill would have been genuinely scared as opposed to just faking it.
2. Except the rift was growing because of Bill's antics, it may have been there, but it wouldn't have grown if Bill had just remained in the universe and changed nothing.

3. Bill was already 3-D during the beginning of Weirdmageddon 1, and killing the Time Baby made him 4-D due to gaining total control over time itself.

4. Those two things were done by things specifically designed to harm him, and thus don't count towards his durability towards natural attacks.

1: Time was never destroyed. Just stopped. Time resumes when he leaves.

2: But he didn't make it and can't. So how would he do it again in a fight?

3: He doesn't have total control over time at all. He can stop it and that is all. He could have done so much more if he did have total control over time. And he certainly didn't look 3D.

4: Mech punches are normal. Gun seems normal.. What am I missing?

 

[The_Everlasting]

1. "Time is dead and meaning has no meaning".

3. He specifically stated he had full control of time after he killed Time Baby "I control space, matter, and now that dumb baby's out of the way, time itself!". Remember when he was creating his physical form and he was encased in metal? Looks 3-D to me.

4. The mech was covered in an anti-weirdness barrier and the gun is specifically designed to send Bill back to his dimension, but Ford missed the shot, and thus it didn't perform its intended effect.

 

[Icyhawk43]

1. "Time is dead and meaning has no meaning".
3. He specifically stated he had full control of time after he killed Time Baby "I control space, matter, and now that dumb baby's out of the way, time itself!". Remember when he was creating his physical form and he was encased in metal? Looks 3-D to me.

4. The mech was covered in an anti-weirdness barrier and the gun is specifically designed to send Bill back to his dimension, but Ford missed the shot, and thus it didn't perform its intended effect.

1: Alright yes, my bad I forgot he said that. That does make sense.

3: But he never shows any of these powers. He says that while showing off his power but he doesn't show Ford any time stuff. And yeah. It looks 3D. As in he gains 3D right there.

4: The Mech was covered in just a barrier. Defensive. When the T-Rex head attacks him, it even pops out of the barrier to attack. Gun makes sense.

 

[Icyhawk43]

1: Actually no. If time was truly destroyed, it should not have come back. Nothing else Bill destroyed came back, so why did time? It was just frozen. (Possible he ment he would freeze time forever?)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1: Actually no. If time was truly destroyed, it should not have come back. Nothing else Bill destroyed came back, so why did time? It was just frozen. (Possible he ment he would freeze time forever?)

Everything Bill did was reversed when he was erased, actually.

Also, on the subject of getting his eye ripped out, yes, but it was done by something which was specifically made the counter him.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. I have also been uncertain about Bill Cipher. I have watched the entire show, and did not get the impression that he was nearly as powerful as we list him, much less his minions. At the very least, the "Likely 2-A. Potentially higher" seems like considerable amounts of speculation, and we should at least try to strive for impartial accuracy.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

The Mecha arm that was used to damage Bill didn't have the shield around it meaning that it was just a robotic arm.

About Bill's speed ,he couldn't catch Dipper and Mabel and he couldn't react to the robotic arm that took off his eye.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Hm. Well, his speed depends entirely on whether he transcended time rather than his actual feats (as well if he has at least two temporal dimensions. Still not sure how that works).

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that he should probably be listed at "Unknown" speed.

As far as I understand, two temporal dimensions basically means encompassing all possibilities/timelines at once, but I am not sure how higher dimensions of time than that practically work. DarkLK might be able to explain though.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Unknown speed sounds reasonable to me.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well, okay then.

 

[Icyhawk43]

1: Actually no. If time was truly destroyed, it should not have come back. Nothing else Bill destroyed came back, so why did time? It was just frozen. (Possible he ment he would freeze time forever?)

Everything Bill did was reversed when he was erased, actually.
Also, on the subject of getting his eye ripped out, yes, but it was done by something which was specifically made the counter him.

Nope. All his weirdness left but all the buildings and such stayed broken.

And again, The Mech only had defensive countering on Bill.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

When was it mentioned that bill exists on 2 temporal dimensions?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Nope. All his weirdness left but all the buildings and such stayed broken.

And again, The Mech only had defensive countering on Bill.

Buildings and basic stuff like that, yes. Everything related to his weirdness just vanished.

The mech was coated in an anti-weirdness barrier. This seems like something that would pretty obviously hinder Bill's attempts to do anything to it and weaken him.

There's also the fact that he got hit (really, really hard) by the PIS stick in the episode. Like getting his eye hurt by spray paint. Or being unable to catch Dipper and Mabel despite there being absolutely no reason he couldn't have just teleported or directly used magic on them. This was the finale, so the final goal was essentially always going to be "Bill loses", no matter how easily he should have won. It's the same as wanting to downgrade Arceus based on him getting hit by a meteor. PIS exists for a reason.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

At the very least, the "Likely 2-A. Potentially higher" seems like considerable amounts of speculation, and we should at least try to strive for impartial accuracy.

The "Likely 2-A" is based around character quotes and material that, while not in the show directly (i.e. Bill's AMAs, deciphered cryptograms, etc.), are still considered to be canon. The "Potentially higher" is simply there because of his (albeit combat useless) ability to increase the number of dimensions he embodies. I don't see why we should ignore these things simply because he "doesn't seem that powerful", especially since almost all of his defeat can be attributed to pretty heavy PIS (I guarantee you can go back and count how many times he should have logically won, ending up well within the double digits).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

When was it mentioned that bill exists on 2 temporal dimensions?

Never. Just that he embodied the timeline after killing off Time Baby, meaning he would likely have another if he already embodied one. However, this is not confirmed, and is less certain.

 

[Icyhawk43]

The Mech was normal attack-wise. Why do I have to say this again?

Here is the attack leaving the barrier

Here is Bill attacking the arm since it leaves the barrier if it goes too far out.

And it is clear he did not "kill" time. As I said, it would not have come back if it was destroyed and he has stopped time before. Him saying that could be him saying he will stop time forever. We know Bill exaggerates things quite a bit so it isn't too far-fetched.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The Mech was normal attack-wise. Why do I have to say this again?
Here is the attack leaving the barrier

Here is Bill attacking the arm since it leaves the barrier if it goes too far out.

And it is clear he did not "kill" time. As I said, it would not have come back if it was destroyed and he has stopped time before. Him saying that could be him saying he will stop time forever. We know Bill exaggerates things quite a bit so it isn't too far-fetched.

The mech being normal attack wise has literally nothing to do with

A) It being coated in magic which is specifically immune to anything Bill can do.

B) The PIS I mentioned.

I didn't mention him killing time? I said he killed Time Baby, who controls time. Yes, Time Baby's physical form eventually comes back, but I don't think that would happen if Bill continued to have control of the general flow of time.

 

[Icyhawk43]

1: Actually no. If time was truly destroyed, it should not have come back. Nothing else Bill destroyed came back, so why did time? It was just frozen. (Possible he ment he would freeze time forever?)

Everything Bill did was reversed when he was erased, actually.

And it does matter. Because it means that the barrier did not affect the punches and it hurt Bill.

How is it PIS if he has never shown anything higher and we just assume his powers?

Time Baby could have taken a 3D form. He also is featless and we assume he is 4D. And Time Baby only controls time with Time Wishes. He doesn't have a natural control of time. (Can't do it at will.)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

And it does matter. Because it means that the barrier did not affect the punches and it hurt Bill.

How is it PIS if he has never shown anything higher and we just assume his powers?

Time Baby could have taken a 3D form. He also is featless and we assume he is 4D. And Time Baby only controls time with Time Wishes. He doesn't have a natural control of time. (Can't do it at will.)

Again, it does matter. "The barrier did not affect the punches" isn't the point. The point is that it affected Bill, and even that is for incredibly plot convenient reasons.

I'm fairly certain if a character can control time at will, warp reality on a massive scale, teleport himself and others, enter the astral plane, etc...then that same character being sprayed in the eyes with paint or failing to catch two children can be attributed the PIS.

Time Baby taking a 3-D form shouldn't take away ALL of his power, and both he and Bill were in 3-D form, at the time. Also, aren't Time Wishes only possessed and distributed by Time Baby himself? Is there anything that suggests these aren't something he makes and possesses naturally as opposed to outside help he actually needs? Because they were only used by regular people to alter history, correct?

 

[Icyhawk43]

Matters for Durability. He was harmed by these punches that are not affected by the barrier. Therefore his Physical Form must not have very good durability. (It's better than assuming he has Multiversal.)

Hax Power =/= Durability. It is possible he is a glass cannon.

In Blendin's Game, he creates a Time Wish for Dipper and Mabel to use and fix Soos's past.

In Between the Pines, he says he is using Time Wish's to make Alex talk about Gravity Falls.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is not assuming his physical form can take multiversal punishment. This is assuming the essence of Bill himself can. His physical form should logically be less durable than his true form.

Yes, he creates them. So shouldn't that mean they're from his power and therefore not something that he is ever...without?

 

[Icyhawk43]

But his physical form is made with his powers, so shouldn't it be around as durable? Not as durable but at least in the same ballpark.

Yes, but if he had control over time, shouldn't he just be able to, and not have to use Time Wishes?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I still think that rating Bill as "2-A. Possibly higher" seems like unsubstantiated speculative hyperbole.

All that we were shown is that if freed from Gravity Falls, he would have had control of a single universe.

And he should likely be rated at Unknown or MFTL+ (given his ability to quickly travel across the universe) speed level.

 

[Icyhawk43]

When did that MFTL+ feat happen?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we were shown that if he was freed from Gravity Falls, he would be able to freely travel the entire universe. That would require MFTL+ flight speed.

 

[Icyhawk43]

Ah yes, thanks. I agree.

 

[BillCipher326]

......

Ok, let's go.

Bill Cipher in his astral form, is a danger for multiplies realitys, as seems in Dipper and Mabel Guides to Mystery and Nonstop Fun!

The rift isn't made by him, but his antics were on the increase, not to mention that the rift was only opened by the mere presence of Bill..


If you watch again the scene he runs behind Dipper and Mabel, you can clearly see that it would take on purpose, he speaks for Stans' 'Until VERY soon' or something.


YES, HE KILL THE TIME, YOU REALLY WANT TO GO AGAINST THE OWN CHARACTER WORD? ............

His eye is a sensitive part of your body, just because you are a semi-omnipotent being, does not mean you can not have sensitive points.

His hat... Argh, i really do not understand you. When he won physical form, his hat was not involved in processing.. Apart from that he was not even angry or anything..


And his dimension was clearly destroyed, was completely decomposed, and it was clearly a universe:

Waiting for a new universe to call my own

 

[Icyhawk43]

1: He did not make the Rip that could destroy the Multiverse. The Rift did, Bill cannot make rips like that by himself (Proof: He didn't.) therefore he is not Multiversal.

2: It's PIS anyway now that I think about it.

3: The word of a character that exaggerates? Yeah I'm not taking that.

4: It clearly isn't a normal hat. It has flesh.

5: Proof the second dimernsion (his) is destroyed and not just taken over like he says? Like I said, Boros' took over the universe but he is solid Planet AP. Taking Over =/= AP.

 

[BillCipher326]

1- Yes, he didn't the rip for destroy the multiverso, BUT, the rip would.


2- What is PIS ?


3- No, isn't exaggerates, all he said is true.


4- ...and??


5- in my own DECAYING dimension

Decaying= to become decomposed

What is rotten, dead, destroyed, obliterated..

 

[Icyhawk43]

1: Yeah, but his power had nothing to do with opening the rip. He broke the Rift and it made the rip for him.

2: Plot Indused Stupidity : Make a character do/not be able to do something really weak just so the plot moves.

3: What about Infinite Power? Knows Everything? nah this guy exaggerates.

4: Do you think his Hat was always a physical being? He just had a physical hat while being a ghost? No, the hat got an upgrade.

5: When does he say decaying? Can you link it or tell me when?

 

[Nibbler3100]

1. Multi-City is an extreme lowball it's been stated multiple times he's going to destroy, play with, etc the universe once he escaped gravity fall's bubble he even offered stanford all oft that power.

2. If Bill was at full power w/ his physical form he could easily do all of that he just needed 1 rip to take over the city of Gravity Falls

3. He now controls time so he can be anywhere at once basically without the concept of time since V = X / T = he can freeze time infinitely therefore can just move anywhere at MFTL speed and have immeasurable through the 3rd person's perspective.

4. You shouldn't gauge a powerful characters abilties off of P.I.S. feats because obviously Dipper & Mabel have to win in the end.

 

[BillCipher326]

1- Yeah.. But the rip steel opneing with his mere presence..

2- Thank you, i gonna remember that.

3- Infinite power he really have, but magnetism is preventing him, if he had free, it really would do.And see all he really see, he has said he can see endless parallel realities.

4- The hat got a upgrade for have flesh... Wow.

5- For 1 trillion years i've trapped in my own decaying dimension, waiting for a new universe to call my own, name's Bill, but you can call me you new lord and master for all eternity -Weirdmageddon Part 1- Before he melt the statue and present their heralds.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah just gonna bring it out here, but if the rip was going to destroy the multiverse, then it would count as a cause and effect, ie all star level characters would count as solar system level and etc, doesn't matter if he did it with his mere prescence

@Nibbler, so was Cell and Majin Buu and etc... more importantly we don't know how he was gonna do it, maybe with the rip?

 

[BillCipher326]

wat

 

[Icyhawk43]

@Nibbler 1: He is 100% way higher than Multi-City. I just have not seen anything that puts him at Multiversal. I accept the Universal one now.

2: Huh? He can't make rips like that by himself.

3: Time Stop =/= Infinite Speeds. He has proven MFTL Travel though.

4: He has no other feats in those catagories. Perhaps it isn't PIS?

 

[Nibbler3100]

The rip was going to destroy the Multiverse because of Bill himself releasing the Weirdmageddon if he so chose to he'd destroy it himself but as you can see he doesnt wanna actually destroy everything just play with it like a giant party

 

[BillCipher326]

At least, Bill Cipher is 2-C.