I take issue with the Bill's 2-A justification

[Tots_Real]

I'm sorry but the justification for 2-A Bill is just bad. This has bothered me for a while now and I finally decided to put it into words.

Bill Cipher

Bill Cipher is a triangular dream demon who exists in the Mind/Dreamscape and the true antagonist of Gravity Falls, secretly being responsible for many of the most important events of and leading up to the show. Years ago, Bill made contact with Stanford "Ford" Pines, posing as a muse who...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Due to the Dimensional Rift being the gap between worlds
First off, the link is broken, for everyone's sake can you not use low quality unofficial youtube clips for profiles. For prosperity here’s a wayback link of it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20231217215840/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd3ixRafFz8
Also, not what that clip says, not what it even implies. It says “Gate”. There were subtitles on that video, like come on.

Also I should point out that the next thing Bill directly mentions is the “world” which would mean he's more focused on said timeline rather than the multiverse


which are infinite in total and Stanford saying twice that Bill is a threat to the wider multiverse
Being a threat to something does not equate to being able to destroy it. A man with a gun is a threat to a neighborhood that doesn’t mean he can blow it up. By that logic we’d have way more 5-B anime characters.

it's possible that the Dimensional Rift would have also destroyed all of them
Source on this claim? There’s no link or reference.

with Bill's goal being also planning to use it to make existence without restrictions, laws,[7] cause and effect,[6] making it like the Nightmare Realm
OK so?
Even if you take these claims literally there isn’t anything here that implies that they would apply to the broader multiverse instead of just the general GF universe. On the contrary the line that bill says before this is directly about how bill wants to liberate specifically Fords universe like he did to his own and above the quote from the cause and effect link it literally directly says “your dimension” as in specifically fords.


due to Stanford stating that the end of the world caused from the Weirdmageddon being just a game for him
Oh look another broken link
https://web.archive.org/web/2020110...tube.com/watch?v=cxru6oxVafQ&feature=youtu.be
First off words like "world" in this context rather than something like "existence" or "reality" denotes the idea that this problem is specifically effecting their timeline rather than the entire multiverse. Also Ford specifically says "our world" in the clip, which again denotes that this problem is specific to the world of GF, not the entire multiverse.

This statement is corroborated with a line Bill says prior in the same scene where he specifing saying "your dimension" to Ford rather than the wider multiverse


before he couldn't find an energy source powerful enough to kill Bill despite the fact that he has something capable of containing the Dimensional Rift
First off, your comparing apples to oranges here. One is a living entity while the other is a hole, the solution to said problem are extremely different. Just for the virture of all of Bill's powers and the fact that the rift is a none sentient hole, a solution for one is not inherently a solution for both.
Also not what that says actually. Ford says "I had never come across an element that had both the necessary power and the required stability" which would imply that he in fact had found sources of power that could power his gun just not stable enough.

Bill also not being bothered from Time Baby claiming that the Rift would destroy the fabric of existence even after it was showcased as being a massive explosion
Ok this actually arguably. Compared to everything else this is probably the fairest argument though even then it's still quite shakey. If your being extremely charitable, sure you could use this as supporting evidence for Bill being 2-A but as it stands now there really isn't anything else to support this claim. There's no time frame given and the way it's framed makes it seem more like a side effect of his action as a sort of chain reaction over time.
Also there's no evidence that he could even survive outside of him not giving a shit.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Following

 

[ShionAH]

This is why I ******* told Strym to add more evidence.

Most of this was already discussed in the CRT. Anyways one of the things Strym didnt add is that Portal can shake Nightmare Realm (2-A place) the same Portal that powers Shacktron, there is also the fact that Bill maintains the rift with his mere presence and the sane rift was gonna “destroy the fabric of existence” in the same quote Time Baby say “your rip in this dimension” implying Universe is not the same as Existence so the rip is affecting something bigger. In the GF comics we see Weirdmageddon had already affected the other dimensions which again imply its affecting more than one universe and all of that is supported by Fords “Threat to the multiverse”

 

[Tipper17]

In the GF comics we see Weirdmageddon had already affected the other dimensions which again imply its affecting more than one universe and all of that is supported by Fords “Threat to the multiverse”

Why isn't there a link or used as supporting evidence to back it up

 

[ShionAH]

Why isn't there a link or used as supporting evidence to back it up

Because @StrymULTRA is a dum dum or smth

 

[StrymULTRA]

This is why I ******* told Strym to add more evidence.

Tf u talking about. I thought I added everything already.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Regardless replying to this ASAP, a lot of this is easily debunkable on its own.

 

[ShionAH]

Tf u talking about. I thought I added everything already.

You didnt add the comic book panel which would have helped.

 

[Swordsaint456]

W. agree

 

[StrymULTRA]

You didnt add the comic book panel which would have helped.

I don't remember.

Anyway, I'm getting on PC in some hours, busy rn.

 

[StrymULTRA]

First off, the link is broken, for everyone's sake can you not use low quality unofficial youtube clips for profiles. For prosperity here’s a wayback link of it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20231217215840/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd3ixRafFz8
Also, not what that clip says, not what it even implies. It says “Gate”. There were subtitles on that video, like come on.

K.

Also I should point out that the next thing Bill directly mentions is the “world” which would mean he's more focused on said timeline rather than the multiverse

What exactly says that he limited himself to JUST the main universe? Ofc if you conquer the multiverse, you also involve the main universe.

which are infinite in total and Stanford saying twice that Bill is a threat to the wider multiverse
Being a threat to something does not equate to being able to destroy it. A man with a gun is a threat to a neighborhood that doesn’t mean he can blow it up. By that logic we’d have way more 5-B anime characters.

That's an old argument that ignores the rest of the reasonings. It's a supportive thing than the main argument.

it's possible that the Dimensional Rift would have also destroyed all of them
Source on this claim? There’s no link or reference.

It's because of making the dots connected. If the Nightmare Realm is the lawless realm that is between all the infinite universes, and Bill planned to remove all the laws, and Time Baby even says that Bill is destroying the whole fabric of existence, make 2+2.

make existence without restrictions, laws,[7] cause and effect,[6] making it like the Nightmare Realm
OK so?
Even if you take these claims literally there isn’t anything here that implies that they would apply to the broader multiverse instead of just the general GF universe. On the contrary the line that bill says before this is directly about how bill wants to liberate specifically Fords universe like he did to his own and above the quote from the cause and effect link it literally directly says “your dimension” as in specifically fords.

Read above. You're overthinking this and applying literal Reddit/Facebook level argument. There's enough evidence that says it applies to the multiverse, unless you wanna argue the Nightmare Realm is only around the main universe, which doesn't work.

There's no time frame given and the way it's framed makes it seem more like a side effect of his action as a sort of chain reaction over time.

This makes no ******* sense. You can't destroy an infinite multiverse overtime, as otherwise you ain't affecting it at all due to only destroying a finite amount of universes.

Also there's no evidence that he could even survive outside of him not giving a shit.

Ford even says that for Bill that's a game. You're saying that Bill is suicidal? Especially when the Rift itself is powering Bill by the minute.

Aka this CRT is extremely poor. You've got for the justification:

• Bill planning to make the existence lawless through pouring the Nightmare Realm in the universe(s), with the possibility of it involving the universes being there due to the NR being between all the universes.
• Ford supporting this being on a Multiversal scale twice.
• Time Baby saying that the entire existence is getting destroyed.

You've got to prove that the other universes being affected from the Weirdmageddon is impossible, which you didn't, and the profile backs the possibly rating enough.

 

[ShionAH]

Disagree FRA

 

[Unqver]

I look good, I agree.

 

[TheShape03]

Disagree FRA

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

Disagree FRA

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Disagree fra

This makes no ******* sense. You can't destroy an infinite multiverse overtime, as otherwise you ain't affecting it at all due to only destroying a finite amount of universes.

I think he was trying to say it's likely just a chain reaction, which is strange since it's visualised as an explosion, even then the rift would have to grow to a multi+ size.

Ford even says that for Bill that's a game. You're saying that Bill is suicidal? Especially when the Rift itself is powering Bill by the minute.

Nah, Bill's just had enough of everybody, he just gonna take everyone with him.

 

[Cropfist]

Bump

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Nah, Bill's just had enough of everybody, he just gonna take everyone with him.

Bill be like:

Disagree FRA

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Bill be like:

Disagree FRA

The bill book reveals he let himself die because he wanted to go to the afterlife for a better life

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Stanford saying twice that Bill is a threat to the wider multiverse
Being a threat to something does not equate to being able to destroy it. A man with a gun is a threat to a neighborhood that doesn’t mean he can blow it up. By that logic we’d have way more 5-B anime characters.

it's possible that the Dimensional Rift would have also destroyed all of them
Source on this claim?

It is possible, considering the fact that Weirdmageddon has its effect across the Multiverse and Time Baby stated that this Weirdmageddon thing can destroy their existence

 

[StrymULTRA]

It is possible, considering the fact that Weirdmageddon has its effect across the Multiverse and Time Baby stated that this Weirdmageddon thing can destroy their existence

Wouldn't this make straight up 2-A then?

 

[ShionAH]

Wouldn't this make straight up 2-A then?

I told you that. I even brought it up in the CRT.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I told you that. I even brought it up in the CRT.

You know very well who stonewalled against it lol.

I should call staff about this.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I disagree FRA

 

[ShionAH]

You know very well who stonewalled against it lol.

I should call staff about this.

Wanna do another CRT about it?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wanna do another CRT about it?

Idc enough. Just make sure it doesn't turn into a downgrade.

 

[RedReaper]

Okay, but can I then suggest that the CRT also include Bill's new feat of messing with the Disney Books Website?

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Okay, but can I then suggest that the CRT also include Bill's new feat of messing with the Disney Books Website?

which feat?

 

[Tots_Real]

Okay, but can I then suggest that the CRT also include Bill's new feat of messing with the Disney Books Website?

Is there any evidence that said action is canon to the actual canon version of Bill?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Okay, but can I then suggest that the CRT also include Bill's new feat of messing with the Disney Books Website?

That's unquantifiable.

Is there any evidence that said action is canon to the actual canon version of Bill?

Bro skipped my rebuttal fr.

Regardless we should wait before doing anything about that book.

 

[RedReaper]

which feat?

Bill defamed the Disney Books website and made it to where it promotes solely his title.

Is there any evidence that said action is canon to the actual canon version of Bill?

I imagined it’d fall under the rules of the AMA, and thus not really up for debate, but the Book of Bill (which is distinctly what was being promoted), is described as such:

“The demon that terrorized Gravity Falls is back from the great beyond to finally tell his side of the story in The Book of Bill, written by none other than Bill Cipher himself.” (Meaning any strangeness surrounding the title is attributed to Bill.)

The website is defaced in Bill’s signature typing, as well, (all caps, like his AMAs): Such as here.

And finally, in the actual website spinning BoB animation variant, on the Barnes and Noble portal (the right side), it has Bill’s Cryptogram, “We’ll meet again,” albeit written in Ford’s Cipher. (The ones from J3, canon material.)

It’s also implied Bill wrote the book through Hirsch’s body, not once, but twice. Which is the canon method of him of him interacting with the real world for other things we count, like the AMAs. So if we’re to attempt to quantify it based on prior data, (and not on its own merits), you could simply say it’s only a feat of Hacking (in Hirsch’s body.)

That's unquantifiable.

How so?

Regardless we should wait before doing anything about that book.

This isn’t about the book-Just the website he tampered with. Obviously the book isn’t out and thus nothing can be done with it, but the Website feat is something that did happen and has long since past, and is virtually unrelated to the any data the book will provide outside of the fact it’s promoting it.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Bill defamed the Disney Books website and made it to where it promotes solely his title.

It's not really a feat tbf, its more 4th wall breaking if anything

can't wait for book of bill, hoping for actual good dimensional tiering this time lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

How so?

Because it's just a meta thing that can't be really be interpreted AP-wise? Don't pull a Tier 0 Monika here, please.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Because it's just a meta thing that can't be really be interpreted AP-wise? Don't pull a Tier 0 Monika here, please.

.....I'm now scared, please give context

 

[RedReaper]

Because it's just a meta thing that can't be really be interpreted AP-wise? Don't pull a Tier 0 Monika here, please.

I wasn't talking AP, I was talking about an additional hax justification on his non-combat applicable 4th Wall Awareness or Plot manipulation. Or perhaps another ability that relates to this pheonemon. Not anything to do with his tier.

 

[RedReaper]

.....I'm now scared, please give context

I'd ALSO like context.

It's not really a feat tbf, its more 4th wall breaking if anything

That's what I intend to use it for? What else would I be trying to use a 4th Wall feat for?

can't wait for book of bill, hoping for actual good dimensional tiering this time lol

Same, though I don't care much on his actual dimensional tiering. I just am excited to see what Hirsch has in store for us, especially given how twisted Bill is. It's an open secret that Bill's basically eldritch and horrifying nature was massively restrained by the network, so seeing an adult themed Gravity Falls book that can at least kind of let loose is something I'm totally invested in.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I'd ALSO like context.

i want you

That's what I intend to use it for? What else would I be trying to use a 4th Wall feat for?

do you know how many people use 4th wall feats as universal feats....

Same, though I don't care much on his actual dimensional tiering. I just am excited to see what Hirsch has in store for us, especially given how twisted Bill is. It's an open secret that Bill's basically eldritch and horrifying nature was massively restrained by the network, so seeing an adult themed Gravity Falls book that can at least kind of let loose is something I'm totally invested in.

same here, story >> scaling, i just want bill to be more reliable in scaling lol

 

[Tots_Real]

I imagined it’d fall under the rules of the AMA, and thus not really up for debate, but the Book of Bill (which is distinctly what was being promoted), is described as such:

“The demon that terrorized Gravity Falls is back from the great beyond to finally tell his side of the story in The Book of Bill, written by none other than Bill Cipher himself.” (Meaning any strangeness surrounding the title is attributed to Bill.)

The website is defaced in Bill’s signature typing, as well, (all caps, like his AMAs): Such as here.

And finally, in the actual website spinning BoB animation variant, on the Barnes and Noble portal (the right side), it has Bill’s Cryptogram, “We’ll meet again,” albeit written in Ford’s Cipher. (The ones from J3, canon material.)

It’s also implied Bill wrote the book through Hirsch’s body, not once, but twice. Which is the canon method of him of him interacting with the real world for other things we count, like the AMAs. So if we’re to attempt to quantify it based on prior data, (and not on its own merits), you could simply say it’s only a feat of Hacking (in Hirsch’s body.)

I'm not denying the book being canon, it absolutely is (unless said otherwise), but a promotion for said book in it of itself should not probably be use (unless the book itself references it).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can we close this? OP didn't refute anything of what I said and discussion is being derailed.

 

[Tots_Real]

Anyways one of the things Strym didnt add is that Portal can shake Nightmare Realm (2-A place)

Wouldn't it make more sense that the linkage of worlds is what caused the shaking rather than the portal device itself.
Also citation for Portal shaking the Nightmare, not that I don't believe you just I want to see the exact scene.

the same Portal that powers Shacktron

Powersource =/= AP, that's why the androids from DBZ aren't universal despite having infinite power cells.

there is also the fact that Bill maintains the rift with his mere presence and the sane rift was gonna “destroy the fabric of existence” in the same quote Time Baby say “your rip in this dimension” implying Universe is not the same as Existence so the rip is affecting something bigger.

Maintaining something does not inherently equate to scaling to it. Keeping a faucet running to fill up a bathtub doesn't mean you have the capacity to do it by yourself. Like if Bill scaled directly to the rift why would he need it maintain it aside from inviting his friends over, like by said logic he'd already be a multiversal reality warper so he could just do whatever he wants already.

In the GF comics we see Weirdmageddon had already affected the other dimensions

Is there any actual evidence that the other Mabels got stranded in the Mabel dimension due to Weirdmageddon rifts aside from the main timeline Mabel, like I checked and the other Mabels don't actually say how they got there or how long they've been stuck there.
Also even if they did get their due to Weirdmageddon shinanigands depending on how canon that Reddit AMA is there is a hypothetically infinite number of Bill out there so there's nothing saying that other versions of Bill couldn't have had their own Weirdmageddon.