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Bill Cipher: It's finally time for Tier 1

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Nasuverse also does lmao.

Digimon has it due to them being Higher-D regardless of their evolutionary state thanks to their physiology, but range between Tier 8 and Tier 1. Don't see how GF is any different.

For you. But for the verse it would, and I am not backing down because of someone deciding that's not right despite the wiki doing this from years.

Bad practice indeed, but won't invalidate tiering. Dragon Ball literally jumps through infinities with finite amps, yet none bats an eye.

But it is estabilished to work as such from the Brane cosmology. The beings within it are just arbitrairly excluded, as otherwise the Earth has High 1-C dura.
Since we discussed this further in DMs, I'll leave it at this since it'd need a site-wide revision it seems and we've had enough of those for the time being. So good luck with the remainder of your thread.
 
I need to ask for minor clarification in one regard (sorry if I missed something, I just skimmed through the OP).
  • Bill has to be straight up 2-A at bare minimum due to the Weirdmageddon explicilty affecting the multiverse.
  • Nightmare Realm is either:
    • Low 1-C due to it referencing branes, being called a higher plane that's infinitely sized, and encompassing infinite universes within itself.
    • 1-B due to it being above 11 spatial dimensions that have to be more relevant and complex than the lower ones.
  • Bill downscaling from the NR.
What's the argument for these 11 dimensions scaling to the base multiverse or otherwise being encompassed by the Nightmare Realm? Can't they be layers above it?
 
@StrymULTRA
Considering the CRT itself mentions that the NR can be acessed through 5D calcs, wouldn't this count as an anti-feat for the 12D rating?
From what I saw in the scan Ford asks himself why he abandoned 5D calculus learning, so I think it would need at least such level, as we don’t actually know if they limited to just that.
And at least 5D calculus is in order to only access it.
 
Considering the CRT itself mentions that the NR can be acessed through 5D calcs, wouldn't this count as an anti-feat for the 12D rating?
It only is required to create the portal, not that's the hard cap of the dimensionality of the place. Ford didn't put all the specifics of it, given that we're entering into pseudo-science otherwise, but yeah.

Plus I forgot to mention that if you read the page, Ford only complains about him not learning about it at the time, so that's not exactly a counter tbh.
What's the argument for these 11 dimensions scaling to the base multiverse or otherwise being encompassed by the Nightmare Realm? Can't they be above it?
They cannot as it's implied that the beings are part of the Multiverse due to them accessing to the Earth normally and Ford using dimensions for both Spatial dimensions and Parallel universes.

The Nightmare Realm is said from Ford himself twice to be the dimension between dimensions, and he potrayed it as a bulk as already said in OP, to excluding the 11D would be a headcanon.

An additional info is that the Time Baby said that Bill's rift would have ended the fabric of existence, Stanford saying that Bill is a threat to the wider Multiverse twice, the fact that the Weirdmageddon is literally flooding the NR in the multiverse, eventually destroying it, other than the NR is explicitly lawless, with Bill planning to free all dimensions from the laws as said in his profile, I'd say that it's good enough proof:
Aka there's no reason to assume the 11D to be above the NR, given the narrative of it, and the fact that nothing says that it's lawless unlike the NR, with all the dimensions in GF having laws instead, which would by default include also the 11D.
 
Sorry if I am handling the verse better than your Ben 10 wankfest.
God damn, kinda uncalled for
I need to ask for minor clarification in one regard (sorry if I missed something, I just skimmed through the OP).

What's the argument for these 11 dimensions scaling to the base multiverse or otherwise being encompassed by the Nightmare Realm? Can't they be layers above it?
Ford explicitly stated these 7-11 dimensional creatures come from his travels (which in this context refers to him using the nightmare realm to travel to different universes iirc including those with dimensionality different from the regular 3 dimensions)
 
Ford explicitly stated these 7-11 dimensional creatures come from his travels (which in this context refers to him using the nightmare realm to travel to different universes iirc including those with dimensionality different from the regular 3 dimensions)
Right

"In my long, dimension-hopping life"

Wasted a wall of text smh.
 
Strym´s answer / Farquaad´s answer:

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I’m on phone so I can’t really send the argument by hand but I recall this blog had some arguments for quantitative superiority in GF for those dimensions
 

I’m on phone so I can’t really send the argument by hand but I recall this blog had some arguments for quantitative superiority in GF for those dimensions
I saw it too, yes.
 

I’m on phone so I can’t really send the argument by hand but I recall this blog had some arguments for quantitative superiority in GF for those dimensions
Tbh we should have handled this before the thread was even posted

I´ve even created a general discussion for Gravity falls some time ago
 
It actually does not. In M-Theory with Bulk Space it's a 4th Dimensional Space with 7-Dimensional strings that make it 11th Dimensional.

So something being bulk Space does not make every dimension higher bulk spaces. They can also be singular string dimensions. For the thread Low 1-C looks alright, 11-D doesn't have enough substa
 
It actually does not. In M-Theory with Bulk Space it's a 4th Dimensional Space with 7-Dimensional strings that make it 11th Dimensional.

So something being bulk Space does not make every dimension higher bulk spaces. They can also be singular string dimensions. For the thread Low 1-C looks alright, 11-D doesn't have enough substa
What if a 2D universe is stated to have 0 width and that width does not exist to them multiple times, would that prove quantitative superiority between dimensions inverse
 
The 11D stuff's just never had enough evidence to actually work. I still don't really see why Bill or Ford would scale to the Nightmare Realm itself due to some of the latter's inventions affecting parts of it. As far as I can see, Ford saying that the portal shook the NR... is just hyperbole.

Yes, taking a narrator's word at face value is fine, but the journals are explicitly from Ford's perspective. Despite his intelligence, he's still only a human. He does not know how far the shaking would reach, since he is not literally omniscient. He doesn't know what's going on a hundred miles away, nor a hundred million light years, lol. That one piece of evidence isn't enough to scale the portal to the NR because he literally does not have the capability to know it affected the entire NR at once.

Then there's this piece of evidence that everyone seems to forget, that is the entire catalyst to Bill's plans:

Bill cannot stop the Nightmare Realm from self destructing. That entire plane is destined to be destroyed with or without him, and the whole reason he wants to go to other realities is to escape it. It just doesn't make any sense for Bill to scale to the NR anyways, since he explicitly cannot affect it in its entirety. He isn't really even affecting it at all, since the same page heavily implies the reason that Gravity Falls' universe is in danger is solely because of the NR's lack of physics and instability flooding our reality, rather than any AP from Bill's end.

IMO I disagree with OP, Bill should just stay where he is
 
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Then there's this piece of evidence that everyone seems to forget, that is the entire catalyst to Bill's plans:

Bill cannot stop the Nightmare Realm from self destructing. That entire plane is destined to be destroyed with or without him, and the whole reason he wants to go to other realities is to escape it. It just doesn't make any sense for Bill to scale to the NR anyways, since he explicitly cannot affect it in its entirety. He isn't really even affecting it at all, since the same page heavily implies the reason that Gravity Falls' universe is in danger is solely because of the NR's lack of physics and instability flooding our reality, rather than any AP from Bill's end.
Just to note, being unable to control Tier 1 structure does not mean character can’t affect it in other ways. There are characters that can destroy universes, but not control them, recreate them or stop their destruction.
IMO I disagree with OP, Bill should just stay where he is
Even if we ignore everything related to Low 1-C and higher, why 2-A should not be solidified due to the events in comics?

I’ll wait for StrymULTRA’s respond though.
 
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