Bill Cipher: It's finally time for Tier 1

[CodeCCLL]

How do u do the last quote lol?

If you're asking seriously [QUOTE=Tiering System Page]BlaBlaBla[/QUOTE]

 

[Greenshifter]

How Higher Dimensional beings are potrayed shouldn't be assumed to be the same across verses, as they clearly work differently. 2D beings could harm Standford despite them being infinitely thinner than him, and 11D beings died from a Tier 7/8 landing. Aka the beings should only have their own feats, as otherwise we might say that every GF human is High 3-A off them being 3D, which clearly isn't the case.

No I'm talking logically and then gave an example of this kind of logic being accepted on-site. Like how can they be extending across compactified dimensions without those dimensions actually being compactified?

 

[StrymULTRA]

No I'm talking logically and then gave an example of this kind of logic being accepted on-site. Like how can they be extending across compactified dimensions without those dimensions actually being compactified?

Fiction. That's how.

 

[Greenshifter]

Fiction. That's how.

So no counter? Aight concession accepted.
So it seems that the cosmology is in fact significant 11D but destroying said cosmology does not grant you the tier of High complex multiversal as previously proven by Strym since 2D beings can hurt 3D beings in the verse.
Because fiction, that's how.

 

[ShionAH]

since 2D beings can hurt 3D beings in the verse.

2D beings can simply have 3D AP.

Bill is 3D and has 4D AP. Actually its possible Bill had 4D AP while being 2D.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So no counter? Aight concession accepted.
So it seems that the cosmology is in fact significant 11D but destroying said cosmology does not grant you the tier of High complex multiversal as previously proven by Strym since 2D beings can hurt 3D beings in the verse.
Because fiction, that's how.

You are not leading me to your standards, lad.

That's just how the verse potrays it, by your logic every GF Human would also be High 3-A due to the 3D world being significant and seeing the 2D as comic books. 2Ds harming 3Ds isn't a counter to 11Ds still dying to a Tier 8 landing (unless you wanna argue the KE was Tier 1 which would have destroyed the Earth at least lmao).

It just does not work like that in the verse, dimensions are superior but not the beings within it.

Just like you can be 2D with Tier 3 AP, you can also be 11D with Tier 10 stats despite your universe being High 1-C. It's literally how the verse works, and you'd have to accept it.

 

[Greenshifter]

2D beings can simply have 3D AP.

The argument is that everyone has 3D or 4D AP because there's "no difference between the dimensions".

You are not leading me to your standards, lad.

I'm using YOUR standards against you mate.

That's just how the verse potrays it, by your logic every GF Human would also be High 3-A due to the 3D world

Huge false equivalence, infinite gaps between significant x-dimensional things still exist.

isn't a counter to 11Ds still dying to a Tier 8 landing (unless you wanna argue the KE was Tier 1 which would have destroyed the Earth at least lmao).

Why do you think I'm saying destroying the 11D multiverse isn't an impressive feat? The multiverse is only finitely bigger than those significant 11D beings after all.

It just does not work like that in the verse, dimensions are superior but not the beings within it.

What if a being is composed of space-time in the verse, is it superior now or not? What if an 11D being becomes finitely bigger to the point is has the same size as the multiverse, is it superior now or not?

 

[Hellformer]

Tier 8 landing (unless you wanna argue the KE was Tier 1 which would have destroyed the Earth at least lmao).

Seems more so an anti feat

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm using YOUR standards against you mate.

Sorry if I am handling the verse better than your Ben 10 wankfest.

Huge false equivalence, infinite gaps between significant x-dimensional things still exist.

This doesn't explain how they died though.

Why do you think I'm saying destroying the 11D multiverse isn't an impressive feat? The multiverse is only finitely bigger than those significant 11D beings after all.

Lol what?

What if a being is composed of space-time in the verse, is it superior now or not? What if an 11D being becomes finitely bigger to the point is has the same size as the multiverse, is it superior now or not?

Now we're jumping in hypoteticals that I do not bother enough to care about.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Seems more so an anti feat

It's more how the verse treats dimensional beings rather than how the Wiki does.

It has showings of both the dimensions being superior, and the beings within it not being superior instead. It works like that in-verse, so we have to respect it, similar to how Dragon Ball makes jumps in infinities through finite multipliers, and so on.

 

[Greenshifter]

Sorry if I am handling the verse better than your Ben 10 wankfest.

... Ah yes because arguing things which don't make logical sense is a very good feat of "handling it".

This doesn't explain how they died though.

You're missing the point, in this thread I'M AGREEING WITH YOU. I'm just taking it to its logical conclusion.

Lol what?

I mean sure some dimensions extend infinitely far mb, but most of the higher dimensions don't extend infinitely further than the 11D beings.

Now we're jumping in hypoteticals that I do not bother enough to care about.

Ok so you're just gonna presuppose the verse works in this specific way without trying to figure out how the edge cases work?

Honestly prove that there's a fundamental difference between "beings" and "constructs" in Gravity Falls when it comes to dimensional superiority.

 

[TheShape03]

So, as I understand it, what the OP is proposing is not that those aliens are High 1-C, but the 11D dimension they come from does qualify for High 1-C because there is evidence that higher dimensions are infinitely larger, just as there is evidence that higher-dimensional characters are not infinitely stronger than lower-dimensional ones. Am I correct?

 

[Greenshifter]

It has showings of both the dimensions being superior

Give proof it takes more than tier 2 energy to destroy the multiverse.

 

[StrymULTRA]

... Ah yes because arguing things which don't make logical sense is a very good feat of "handling it".

Fiction makes sense?

I mean sure some dimensions extend infinitely far mb, but most of the higher dimensions don't extend infinitely further than the 11D beings.

This is more like a verse thing rather than an anti feat for the 11D realm tbh. It has clear showings of both the solutions I'm showing, as if the verse works like that, we'd have to respect it.

Ok so you're just gonna presuppose the verse works in this specific way without trying to figure out how the edge cases work?

Yes.

Honestly prove that there's a fundamental difference between "beings" and "constructs" in Gravity Falls when it comes to dimensional superiority.

The verse already does, the 11D realm has shown superiority while the beings do not. The 2D beings could harm 3D ones despite their dimension being inferior as well.

So, as I understand it, what the OP is proposing is not that those aliens are High 1-C, but the 11D dimension they come from does qualify for High 1-C because there is evidence that higher dimensions are infinitely larger, just as there is evidence that higher-dimensional characters are not infinitely stronger than lower-dimensional ones. Am I correct?

Basically yes. The 2D thing by its own is enough.

Give proof it takes more than tier 2 energy to destroy the multiverse.

At this point I think you're either trolling or just trying to stall the thread so that your standards get applied over the verse's.

 

[Livinmeme]

Because fiction, that's how.

We already have characters that can literally shoot down 1-A beings to death (despite them only being 3-D), so that isn't an argument

 

[TheShape03]

Basically yes. The 2D thing by its own is enough.

Perfect, then I still agree with High 1-C/1-B.

 

[ShionAH]

Again, would this make the cast supergenius?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Again, would this make the cast supergenius?

Why would it lol?

 

[ShionAH]

Why would it lol?

Tier 1 equipment and shit ---> Supergenius

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tier 1 equipment and shit ---> Supergenius

In order to qualify for a Supergenius rating based on technological prowess, a character should be able to essentially warp reality in virtually any way that they wish on an at least base level infinite (High 3-A) scale with their inventions, or even use them to overpower tier 1 entities for higher cases. Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is very common for Extraordinary Geniuses as well. Meaning that there should be an enormous amount of versatility combined with an infinite scale of power and preferably range.

Mh...

Looking good from a glance so far.

Is 1-B and Supergenius for Bill and Stanford ok?

 

[Greenshifter]

Fiction makes sense?

At least your scales are supposed to make logical sense my guy.

This is more like a verse thing rather than an anti feat for the 11D realm tbh. It has clear showings of both the solutions I'm showing, as if the verse works like that, we'd have to respect it.

Disagree with you giving enough evidence to show that the 11D realm doesn't suffer from the anti-feat the 11D beings have.

The verse already does, the 11D realm has shown superiority while the beings do not

You've only shown that the 11D realm is not insignificant in size, which then also applies to the 11D beings. You haven't shown any fundamental difference between these 2 things.

The 2D beings could harm 3D ones despite their dimension being inferior as well.

The second dimension is only inferior in size as well, so this doesn't add anything.

Yes.

Real great "handling" feat.

 

[Georredannea15]

So, as I understand it, what the OP is proposing is not that those aliens are High 1-C, but the 11D dimension they come from does qualify for High 1-C because there is evidence that higher dimensions are infinitely larger, just as there is evidence that higher-dimensional characters are not infinitely stronger than lower-dimensional ones. Am I correct?

No. Because even an infinite 3D axis would be an infinitesimal part of a trivial 4D axis (this means isn't Low 2-C, just 4-D). This is a case of "perspective"

 

[Hellformer]

You both need to chill
I mean just agree to disagree and wait for other staffs to give their opinion

 

[StrymULTRA]

At least your scales are supposed to make logical sense my guy.

Sense for the verse, yes.

Disagree with you giving enough evidence to show that the 11D realm doesn't suffer from the anti-feat the 11D beings have.

It literally has, due to the thing running under branes and each dimension showing to be infinitely larger than the lower one.

You've only shown that the 11D realm is not insignificant in size, which then also applies to the 11D beings. You haven't shown any fundamental difference between these 2 things.

Why would it apply to also beings? Your logic is "the beings must also be not compactified no matter what" when the verse shows that it handles structures and the beings inside differently.

The second dimension is only inferior in size as well, so this doesn't add anything.

Infinitely thinner than the 3D one due to it not having width* Yet the 2D beings could still harm Ford, implying the verse handles it in a different way than you do.

Real great "handling" feat.

Ikr? I am just following how Alex Hirsch thinks, you're not above him or something lmfao.

 

[Greenshifter]

At this point I think you're either trolling or just trying to stall the thread so that your standards get applied over the verse's.

No you just don't get my argument.

We already have characters that can literally shoot down 1-A beings to death (despite them only being 3-D), so that isn't an argument

It is though, Strym is arguing that higher-D and lower-D things can destroy each other no problemo in GF and that they should be capped at 3D AP in the case of 11D beings. This should logically include the multiverse as well, which is just a big 11D object.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It is though, Strym is arguing that higher-D and lower-D things can destroy each other no problemo in GF and that they should be capped at 3D AP in the case of 11D beings. This should logically include the multiverse as well, which is just a big 11D object.

It wouldn't due to 11D thing objectively being infinitely larger than the lower realm due to reasons I've already explained, otherwise the Brane Thing wouldn't work to begin with.

You're kinda being stubborn and repeating yourself, the author thinks differently than you do, and the verse handles stuff differently than how you think. You're making up nonexistent standards rn, and I don't get the point of this either.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I am switching to a solid 1-B because I don’t think there is much to refute OP arguments.

Tier 1 equipment and shit ---> Supergenius

Shouldn’t they be able to do that by themselves meanwhile Ford got lots of help?

Also, isn’t NR being stated endless in size proves its size is significant enough already to satisfy the dimensional tiering?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Shouldn’t they be able to do that by themselves meanwhile Ford got lots of help?

Ford created by himself the thing to contain the rift, so he'd still qualify tbh.

 

[Greenshifter]

It literally has, due to the thing running under branes and each dimension showing to be infinitely larger than the lower one.

That's just size mate, the 11D beings also benefit from this, they also become significant 11D and under wiki standards destroying them would be High 1-C, however since this isn't the case according to you, this then backfires onto the 11D multiverse.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Why would it apply to also beings? Your logic is "the beings must also be not compactified no matter what" when the verse shows that it handles structures and the beings inside differently.

Because there are no compactified dimensions left for them to extend within... your argument for the multiverse is literally that these 11 dimensions are not compactified. And I know this line of reasoning is accepted on-site. And I also know that GF "being different" doesn't solve the issue, since at best it just becomes unscaleable then since we have dimensions which are simultaneously compactified and not compactified.

Infinitely thinner than the 3D one due to it not having width* Yet the 2D beings could still harm Ford, implying the verse handles it in a different way than you do.

Ok, so it's easy for lower-D things to destroy higher-D things, agreed, that's my argument when I ask you to prove that destroying the multiverse requires higher than tier 2 energy.

Ikr? I am just following how Alex Hirsch thinks, you're not above him or something lmfao.

He also doesn't care about edge cases? Would surprise me.

 

[ShionAH]

Shouldn’t they be able to do that by themselves meanwhile Ford got lots of help?

Ford made quantum gun thing all by himself and for the portal Bill only gave him knowledge, being able to understand all that tier one knowledge and then building it correctly needs supergenius IQ

 

[Greenshifter]

It wouldn't due to 11D thing objectively being infinitely larger than the lower realm due to reasons I've already explained, otherwise the Brane Thing wouldn't work to begin with.

The 11D beings are also uncountably infinitely larger based on your own argument though. Ask some knowledgeable people on it if you don't trust me, you can't have compactified and non-compactified 11D at the same time.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's just size mate, the 11D beings also benefit from this, they also become significant 11D and under wiki standards destroying them would be High 1-C, however since this isn't the case according to you, this then backfires onto the 11 multiverse.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Digimon literally does this too lmfao.

Because there are no compactified dimensions left for them to extend within... your argument for the multiverse is literally that these 11 dimensions are not compactified. And I know this line of reasoning is accepted on-site. And I also know that GF "being different" doesn't solve the issue, since at best it just becomes unscaleable then since we have dimensions which are simultaneously compactified and not compactified.

Or maybe dimensions in themselves are, but the beings are not? What about you learn that every verse has its own line of logic?

Ok, so it's easy for lower-D things to destroy higher-D things, agreed, that's my argument when I ask you to prove that destroying the multiverse requires higher than tier 2 energy.

The 2D beings aren't High 3-A, no? So the 3D beings wouldn't be High 1-C either due to the Earth withstanding the 11D crash.

He also doesn't care about edge cases? Would surprise me.

Digimon literally does this too lmfao (2).

The 11D beings are also uncountably infinitely larger based on your own argument though. Ask some knowledgeable people on it if you don't trust me, you can't have compactified and non-compactified 11D at the same time.

Higher-D beings are that larger whenever superior or not, lad. They just don't have proof of having Tier 1 stats unlike their home which is that through size.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

That's just size mate, the 11D beings also benefit from this, they also become significant 11D and under wiki standards destroying them would be High 1-C, however since this isn't the case according to you, this then backfires onto the 11 multiverse.

Excuse me what? Normal humans exist in 3 dimensions at once too, but that doesn’t mean that either the universe is not significant in size nor it proves that the people are 3-A/High 3-A. You made that up, it is clear that dimensions would be significant in case of NR, and the fact that the worlds themselves are shown to apply to dimensional tiering, I don’t see what’s the problem with it.

Ok, so it's easy for lower-D things to destroy higher-D things, agreed, that's my argument when I ask you to prove that destroying the multiverse requires higher than tier 2 energy.

Again Realms/universes case is not the same as entities.

Ford created by himself the thing to contain the rift, so he'd still qualify tbh.

True, then fair enough.

Ford made quantum gun thing all by himself and for the portal Bill only gave him knowledge, being able to understand all that tier one knowledge and then building it correctly needs supergenius IQ

I remember his other self helping with quantum gun creation or smth, but I honestly don’t remember much of the details there.

Anyways Supergenius Intelligence looks fair (YAY).

 

[Maskofthedragon]

I'm certainly convinced now, that Gravity Falls has had actual effort in having higher dimensions in it's world building
The 7-11 aliens are weird to use but it does show intent

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree with 1-B proposal

 

[Greenshifter]

Digimon literally does this too lmfao.

Assuming you're right then I'll have to take a look at them as well. No reason for you to use the same flawed reasoning though.

Or maybe dimensions in themselves are, but the beings are not? What about you learn that every verse has its own line of logic?

Beings need dimensions to extend within my guy, you can't just go oh the direction these beings extend into curles into itself but also doesn't at the same time. No amount of "own line of logic" will make this tierable.

The 2D beings aren't High 3-A, no? So the 3D beings wouldn't be High 1-C either due to the Earth withstanding the 11D crash.

What is it with you and High 3-A, it literally has no bearing here. But yeah I agree.

Digimon literally does this too lmfao (2).

Also don't care about the edge cases? That's by definition bad practice regardless of how many verses do it though.

Higher-D beings are that larger whenever superior or not, lad. They just don't have proof of having Tier 1 stats unlike their home which is that through size.

"They are that large", don't have proof unlike their home "which is that tier through size". You seeing the problem? Anyways they are not always larger in a way that matters (that's what compactification is), the FAQ states that things are assumed compactified unless proven otherwise, which you have.

"However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify."

 

[Greenshifter]

Excuse me what? Normal humans exist in 3 dimensions at once too, but that doesn’t mean that either the universe is not significant in size nor it proves that the people are 3-A/High 3-A. You made that up, it is clear that dimensions would be significant in case of NR, and the fact that the worlds themselves are shown to apply to dimensional tiering, I don’t see what’s the problem with it.

This does not seem to target my argument whatsoever, forgive me if I missed something.

Again Realms/universes case is not the same as entities.

Why not? What if it's an entity half the size of a realm? We don't even know how much bigger the realm is compared to the 11D beings AFAIK.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Assuming you're right then I'll have to take a look at them as well. No reason for you to use the same flawed reasoning though.

Nasuverse also does lmao.

Digimon has it due to them being Higher-D regardless of their evolutionary state thanks to their physiology, but range between Tier 8 and Tier 1. Don't see how GF is any different.

Beings need dimensions to extend within my guy, you can't just go oh the direction these beings extend into curles into itself but also doesn't at the same time. No amount of "own line of logic" will make this tierable.

For you. But for the verse it would, and I am not backing down because of someone deciding that's not right despite the wiki doing this from years.

Also don't care about the edge cases? That's by definition bad practice regardless of how many verses do it though.

Bad practice indeed, but won't invalidate tiering. Dragon Ball literally jumps through infinities with finite amps, yet none bats an eye.

"However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify."

But it is estabilished to work as such from the Brane cosmology. The beings within it are just arbitrairly excluded, as otherwise the Earth has High 1-C dura.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This does not seem to target my argument whatsoever, forgive me if I missed something.

You are arguing that since 11D entities are not significant in size, then the universes and specifically NR cannot be such, right? The thing is that the living entities being insignificant in size does not disprove the universes being such.

Why not? What if it's an entity half the size of a realm? We don't even know how much bigger the realm is compared to the 11D beings AFAIK.

Assumption out of nowhere + Aliens were dead by 3D crush which means that they are simply HDE, but the NR is called endless + it is consistent with how other universes worked (Ford mentioning you have to give up your width thing mentioned in the OP).

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

At the bare minimum I can agree with Low 1-C, I accept High 1-C but 1-B should be a possibly imo