BIG POKEMON UPGRADES

[Arceus0x]

You know i had to bait with the title, no, this isn't some super massive upgrade which makes all pokemon 6-A, but it is damn good for starter.

The feat
The feat i will provide you with is this
Piloswine destroys Ecruteak city with an earthquake
the feat is Piloswine violently shaking Ecruteak city and destroying it completely in one move.
The reasons behind the magnitude and distance i used is already in the blog and here's evidence of Piloswine being the one who actually did it:

So piloswine was the one who made the earthquake.

The piloswine kept up with Politoad for a bit before getting tricked and beaten, it was somewhat bigger than usual and it was a final evo in gen 2 and thus the Piloswine feat should scale only to final evolutions.
Thus all final evos will scale to High 7-A (2.9 gigatons)

But Arceus, the feat is an outlier! we have no supporting evidence of any other feats of that level!

Well i could argue about pokemon having tons of 7-A feats but i ain't gonna

and i will pull out my second card

Feat 2: Tyranitar yoinks a mountain with an earthquake
Not only a feat that is consistent with the general statements about Tyranitars, but also with the feat i provided above
Tyranitar causes an earthquake that wipes out a great mountain

this one comes out at 3.1 gigatons or High 7-A+ (i think)
and is only 165 megatons away from the Piloswine feat which makes it consistent.

What would this mean for pokemon?

Time to scale
let's begin with who scales and how.

Option 1: everyone scales to 3.1gt
Option 2: Normal final evos scale to 2.9gt and Pseudo-legendaries scale to 3.1

Option 1 scaling:

Final evos: 3.1gt High 7-A
Mega evos: >6.2gt 6-C
Gigantamax: >15.5gt 6-C
Marrowak with the bone: 6.2gt 6-C

The scaling for G-max pokemon was accepted on this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/pokemon-gigantamax-revision.123300/#post-4090742
there was also a slightly different version accepted before already, this just added +1x

Option 2 scaling:
The main issue with the scaling is deciding who scales to pseudo-legendary pokemon.
Anyways here it is:

Final evos: 2.9gt High 7-A
Pseudo-legend final evos: 3.1gt High 7-A
Mega evos: >5.8gt 6-C
Pseudo mega evos: >6.2gt 6-C
Gigantamax: >14.5gt 6-C
Pseudo Gigantamax: >15.5gt 6-C
Marrowak with the bone: 5.8gt 6-C

So overall: final evos high 7-A, any transformation is 6-C

Speed upgrade:
Pokemon final evolutions speed CRT

not mine, but it got accepted and it was decided that they'll wait for this thread to come out so if everything got accepted this would be edited in as well.
So if this gets accepted please do the necessary upgrades shown in that thread as well

Overall:
I believe that there shouldn't be any concerns of it being an outlier given the consistency of pokemon such as Tyranitar and Dugtrio causing earthquakes and causing changes in geography, Copperajah terraforming land and wiping out mountains and more feats of pokemon just wrecking entire environments with their attacks (i mean the fights between fully evolved ice type pokemon can literally cause a snow storm strong enough to completely cancel flights for a day).
This should bring pokemon up a notch and it would help its case when it comes to high end feats.

That is all, i would like your opinions.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wait. If such levels are now a thing, what exactly stops us fron using Magnitude now? It was dismissed before because of no actual Earthquake feats of such level, but now there are.

 

[y3p_owo]

Following.

 

[Arceus0x]

Wait. If such levels are now a thing, what exactly stops us fron using Magnitude now? It was dismissed before because of no actual Earthquake feats of such level, but now there are.

probably the fact that it can even be learned by a geodude

 

[DaReaperMan]

I agree.

 

[StrymULTRA]

probably the fact that it can even be learned by a geodude

Even Solar Beam can be dodged from base mons, so? Magnitude for obvious levels can't be used at all the levels, but is depending on the stage. We have now a proof that Magnitude 9 can be used canonically from Stage 1 mons, so for obvious reasons the 10 can be used from Fully evolved mons.

 

[Arceus0x]

Even Solar Beam can be dodged from base mons, so? Magnitude for obvious levels can't be used at all the levels, but is depending on the stage. We have now a proof that Magnitude 9 can be used canonically from Stage 1 mons, so for obvious reasons the 10 can be used from Fully evolved mons.

i'll let the experts decide. For now what's important to me is my calcs and the upgrades

 

[StrymULTRA]

I agree with the rest anyway. Good job.

 

[Arceus0x]

I agree with the rest anyway. Good job.

thank you

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I agree with this

 

[Arceus0x]

what option do yall agree with?

 

[CloverDragon03]

If you want my honest opinion, we should just scale them all to Tyranitar’s calc. All final evolutions are comparable to one another.

Also, where did the 5x multiplier for Gigantamax come from?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, where did the 5x multiplier for Gigantamax come from?

Here

Anyway, what do you think about using Magnitude 10 again?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don’t agree, as it’s pretty much an outlier especially with the fact that even Diglett can learn it. The Tyranitar feat is fine.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don’t agree, as it’s pretty much an outlier especially with the fact that even Diglett can learn it. The Tyranitar feat is fine.

It's an outlier for base/stage 1, but since Magnitude 9 is canonically a thing from stage 1, why wouldn't 10 be legit for fully evolved ones at this point?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Actually, read it bad, though Piloswine was for Stage 1 lmfao.

Anyway, I still think Magnitude 10 should be used as it actually has feats supporting it this time.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Question: the Piloswine being referenced is trained by an expert Gym Leader. Does this scaling apply to Wild Pokémon?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Question: the Piloswine being referenced is trained by an expert Gym Leader. Does this scaling apply to Wild Pokémon?

Giving it has feats of matching a fully evolved Pokémon and being notably strong amount the species, then yes.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Giving it has feats of matching a fully evolved Pokémon and being notably strong amount the species, then yes.

The fully evolved Pokémon the OP referenced, Tyranitar, is a stage 3 evolution while Piloswine is a stage 2. Both are fully evolved but I’m not familiar with the VSBW standards for the stage 2 and stage 3 final evolution scaling.

Do they scale naturally?

 

[Arceus0x]

The fully evolved Pokémon the OP referenced, Tyranitar, is a stage 3 evolution while Piloswine is a stage 2. Both are fully evolved but I’m not familiar with the VSBW standards for the stage 2 and stage 3 final evolution scaling.

Do they scale naturally?

The Piloswine mentioned isn't as much of a threat as it got taken care of easily by a mid-trained Politoad and murkrow.
Piloswine is a stage 2 but the thing is, it was indeed more powerful than usual, but not to any crazy extent, still, it was swinub's last evolution at that time, a weak one none the less. For a first evolution the mon is strong scaling above the likes of pupitar but way below fully evolved starters and such. So overall, not only is the piloswine in question somewhat comparable to 3rd stages but also somewhat stronger than average. Thus this one doesn't scale to other 2nd stages.

Tryranitar is indeed a 3rd stage. And scales to other 3rd stages.

Basically this is a stage 3 upgrade, not stage 2

 

[GyroNutz]

Magnitude got retconned out of existence since SwSh

I think it's safer to avoid using moves like Magnitude and Defog that any stage Pokemon can learn naturally simply for final stage scaling. Magnitude in particular is very consistently learned at low levels, for what it's worth.

OP is fine, we have two accepted High 7-A+ calcs, one which is performed by a 3rd stage and one which could be argued to be final stage level. There's also several 7-A feats to support this (the Copperajah one is its Gmax form). I would prefer more agreement on the gmax multiplier thread, since a staff member (Yuri) disagreed with it initially.

 

[GyroNutz]

Oh, to clarify, I agree with option 1

 

[Arceus0x]

Thanka for your input, hopefully skmeone here can comment on it

 

[ElixirBlue]

The Piloswine mentioned isn't as much of a threat as it got taken care of easily by a mid-trained Politoad and murkrow.
Piloswine is a stage 2 but the thing is, it was indeed more powerful than usual, but not to any crazy extent, still, it was swinub's last evolution at that time, a weak one none the less. For a first evolution the mon is strong scaling above the likes of pupitar but way below fully evolved starters and such. So overall, not only is the piloswine in question somewhat comparable to 3rd stages but also somewhat stronger than average. Thus this one doesn't scale to other 2nd stages.

Tryranitar is indeed a 3rd stage. And scales to other 3rd stages.

Basically this is a stage 3 upgrade, not stage 2

Alrighty. I was wondering how the scaling was working out, but if Piloswine (stage 2) is used as supporting evidence for Stage 3 Pokémon, I see little issue with that.

 

[GyroNutz]

We should explain that this Piloswine is more powerful than usual, so it's clear this isn't a repeat of all final stages scaling above Pupitar to hide the outlier for mid-stages.

 

[Psychomaster35]

I agree with this

 

[ElixirBlue]

We should explain that this Piloswine is more powerful than usual, so it's clear this isn't a repeat of all final stages scaling above Pupitar to hide the outlier for mid-stages.

I thought of that but Piloswine’s calc is lower than Tyranitar’s. Even if it’s an outlier for Stage 2, I thought Piloswine could still act a support for Stage 3.

 

[GyroNutz]

I thought of that but Piloswine’s calc is lower than Tyranitar’s. Even if it’s an outlier for Stage 2, I thought Piloswine could still act a support for Stage 3.

Yeah it's fine to support 3rd stages, just that the Pokemon who performed the feat isn't just a typical 2nd stage.

 

[Arceus0x]

Bump

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think it's safer to avoid using moves like Magnitude and Defog that any stage Pokemon can learn naturally simply for final stage scaling. Magnitude in particular is very consistently learned at low levels, for what it's worth.

It's learned at low levels from low stages. However, since Team Rocket's Piloswine and Tyranitar feats are actually pretty close to the 10, I don't think it's an immense screech to make the 10 usable, since this time is actually supported.

There's also several 7-A feats to support this (the Copperajah one is its Gmax form)

If you mean this "So much power is packed within its trunk that if it were to unleash that power, the resulting blast could level mountains and change the landscape.", then is prolly calc-worth.

EDIT: There's also the Charizard feat that needs to be recalculated, so I'll do it.

 

[Arceus0x]

It's learned at low levels from low stages. However, since Team Rocket's Piloswine and Tyranitar feats are actually pretty close to the 10, I don't think it's an immense screech to make the 10 usable, since this time is actually supported.

If you mean this "So much power is packed within its trunk that if it were to unleash that power, the resulting blast could level mountains and change the landscape.", then is prolly calc-worth.

EDIT: There's also the Charizard feat that needs to be recalculated, so I'll do it.

It isn't. Leveling british mountains is like 7-B. I used it to support the concept of wiping out terrain and terraforming entire environments

 

[Arceus0x]

Bump

 

[Arceus0x]

Ik it is early but bump.

C'mon i need more opinions, thoughts. This is a big upgrade so I'd like some more people agreeing so nobody tries shiz when they see it

 

[Arceus0x]

Though i guess i already do have the agreement of 4 mods and many experienced members...

 

[CloverDragon03]

There's also some specific anime stuff that'll need scaling adjustments, such as Pikachu being High 7-A+ for its first key and 6-C in its next 2 keys, and its Gigantamax being 5x that 6-C value. Leon's team would be 6-C, and Gigantamax Charizard would scale above Gigantamax Pikachu.

Also worth mentioning is that base Eternatus would now be 988.25 petatons (above G-Max Urshifu which is 5x regular Urshifu which scales above Regice), and Eternamax Eternatus would be 4.94 exatons (5x its base form)

 

[Arceus0x]

There's also some specific anime stuff that'll need scaling adjustments, such as Pikachu being High 7-A+ for its first key and 6-C in its next 2 keys, and its Gigantamax being 5x that 6-C value. Leon's team would be 6-C, and Gigantamax Charizard would scale above Gigantamax Pikachu.

Also worth mentioning is that base Eternatus would now be 986 petatons (above G-Max Urshifu which is 5x regular Urshifu which scales above Regice), and Eternamax Eternatus would be 4.93 exatons (5x its base form)

I do not agree with the last part.
Gigantamax multiplier was only meant for the normal pokemon, not legendaries as we don't actually know how it affects legendaries. The reason why 5x is acceptable for final evos is because G-max Centiskorch would scale to other G-max mons, but legendaries wouldn't scale and thus their multiplier is unquantifiable (could be anywhere from 2x to 1000x)

 

[CloverDragon03]

I do not agree with the last part.
Gigantamax multiplier was only meant for the normal pokemon, not legendaries as we don't actually know how it affects legendaries. The reason why 5x is acceptable for final evos is because G-max Centiskorch would scale to other G-max mons, but legendaries wouldn't scale and thus their multiplier is unquantifiable (could be anywhere from 2x to 1000x)

Eternamax is a strictly superior transformation to Gigantamax, so it's going to at the very least have that 5x multiplier. It'd be an "at least 5x" multiplier.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Eternamax is a strictly superior transformation to Gigantamax, so it's going to at the very least have that 5x multiplier. It'd be an "at least 5x" multiplier.

Agreed.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, is not a Mega Evo situation where only Mewtwo and Rayquaza have a jump from Tier 5 to 3. Eternamax is literally a power-upped version of whatever Dynamax variant, saying it gives a lower multipler is nonsense.

It's learned at low levels from low stages. However, since Team Rocket's Piloswine and Tyranitar feats are actually pretty close to the 10, I don't think it's an immense screech to make the 10 usable, since this time is actually supported.

And please someone answer to this.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't think we can simply make a feat an outlier for some and not for others, it's either an outlier or it's not.