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BIG POKEMON UPGRADES

DragonGamerZ913 said:
I don't think we can simply make a feat an outlier for some and not for others, it's either an outlier or it's not.
Click to expand...
Magnitude 10 is a thing in the verse and we all know it already. But there are extensions of the move as well. Charizard's Flametrower is 7-A+. Does that mean that is an outlier because it would mean that "anyone can learn it so it would be an outlier"? Obviously not, there are clearly extensions of the move. Another example is Solar Beam, where despite even base mons can learn it, only fully evolved have feats of scaling in speed from such. This applies to Magnitude too. They have feats of magnitude amplitude depending on the stage, and Magnitude 10 for fully evolved mons is supported from having feats really close to such.
 
Solar Beam, sure you could use that as an example for what you're saying, but Charizard isn't good support given that the statement was that his Flamethrower specifically can melt mountains.

Also Magnitude got yeeted out of existence in Sword and Shield
 
Idk man i feel like the magnitude move is problematic, is there a single instance where we see good range for it? Because earthquake has actual distance and evidence for the distance while magnitude just has a number planted there and that's that.
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
but Charizard isn't good support given that the statement was that his Flamethrower specifically can melt mountains.
Click to expand...
...yeah, I didn't have a better example in my mind. We can use Defog tho, since only Fully evolved mons have feats comparable to it, like Tyranitar changing the surroundings like Defog does. Scrapping away a move just because "everyone can learn it" while they have feats comparable to the results of said move help thinking about which stage apply said feat to.
Arceus0x said:
Idk man i feel like the magnitude move is problematic, is there a single instance where we see good range for it? Because earthquake has actual distance and evidence for the distance while magnitude just has a number planted there and that's that.
Click to expand...
We have a chart for the baseline magnitudes, so not much of a problem.
 
It is true that Magnitude 10 is consistent in its value, but I'm still not sure about using it due to the aforementioned issues. I'm neutral.
 
I agree with the OP. However since I don't know Pokémon as well as everyone else (been ages since I played any Pokémon games) I won't take part in the debate. If my vote is the last remaining vote in favor then I'll take it back
 
I tried making a calc

Magnitude 10 right? The max distance in Mystery dungeon is a room.
Ill use this room as it is the biggest one i've seen anywhere
29-Image15.png

The big blue square is, of course, the room map, thus it's length is the max distance one magnitude attack can reach. Note that a single pixel in the screenshot doesn't equal the same as a pixel in the image's resolution so i am using a pixel scaling site for this.

squirtle is 38px but 50.8cm
1px is 1.33684210526cm

a wonder tile is the size of one general tile so it should be equal to the stairwell in size
A wonder tile is 49px thus it is 65.5052631579cm

now for the map
a stairwell is 8px
the room is 414px
the room is 3389.89736842cm or 33.8989 meters

let's get on with the calc

10+(0.0238*0.03389)= 10.000806582
10^((1.5*10.000806582)+4.8)= 6.3271754e+19 joules
6.3271754e+19 joules = 15122312141.49139595 tons of tnt or 15.122gt which is 6-C

my main issue would be the fact that we see no visible destruction to support the suggested strength for the earthquake so i feel like mag 10 may be an overstatement. Though i never did get to see the animation for the 3d games
 
btw i just decided to see what would happen if i used mag 9.5 for my piloswine calc as the desruction could be easily argued to be of that level
9.5+(0.0238*22.11)=10.026218
10^((1.5*10.026218)+4.8)= 6.9075971e+19 joules
6.9075971e+19 joules is 16509553298.279159546 tons of tnt or 16.5gt

any thoughts?
 
Piloswine feat was blatantly 9 as such magnitude is even described bringing such levels of Destruction irl.

However, this just supports even more 10 being supported imo.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Piloswine feat was blatantly 9 as such magnitude is even described bringing such levels of Destruction irl.

However, this just supports even more 10 being supported imo.
Click to expand...
i mean he turned ectrueak city into a soup of torn off rocks from the roads and torn off buildings. it significantly affected the earth's tectonic plates and as i see it did more damage than the earthquake of chile... i mean i looked at the images and i don't see cities and roads turned into a rocky soup so..
 
Arceus0x said:
i mean he turned ectrueak city into a soup of torn off rocks from the roads and torn off buildings. it significantly affected the earth's tectonic plates and as i see it did more damage than the earthquake of chile... i mean i looked at the images and i don't see cities and roads turned into a rocky soup so..
Click to expand...
And that's what 9 would do. So?
 
Arceus0x said:
there was far superior damage to the roads and such but whatever i guess.
Click to expand...
From Wikipedia on the "9 and above"

At or near total destruction – severe damage or collapse to all buildings. Heavy damage and shaking extends to distant locations. Permanent changes in ground topography.

And since we go with low ends we make 9 as minimum.
 
From what I can see, Tyranitar's feat looks pretty acceptable from where I'm standing, and Piloswine's whole deal here would be fine as a support for the Tyranitar feat. I'm fine with this.

Neutral on the usage of Magnitude as well, since everyone has fair points on that regarding scaling, but I'm leaning towards approving on that.
 
I think I'm leaning more toward agree on using Magnitude, but only for final evolutions. This would mean they'd be 15.08 gigatons, Megas would be 30.16 gigatons, Gigantamaxes would be 75.4 gigatons, and Leon's G-Max Charizard would be 150.8 gigatons (as it's 5x its base form, which scales above Ash's Pikachu, which scales to Megas).

However, I'm mostly neutral still.
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
Leon's G-Max Charizard would be 150.8 gigatons (as it's 5x its base form, which scales above Ash's Pikachu, which scales to Megas).
Click to expand...
Doesn't Leon's Base Charizard scale to Gigantamaxes? (Easily stomped a Dynamax Perrserker and a G-max Centiscorch) So wouldn't Leon's G-Max Charizard be 377 gigatons?
 
Lemme write it out in case we decide to use magnitude

Final evos: 15gt
Marrowak with bone: 30gt
Mega evos: >30gt
G-max: >75gt
Champion level pokemon (like pikachu): >30gt
Champion level mega evos: 60gt
Champion level g-max: 150gt
Leon's charizard: 1/2 of g-max and thus 45gt
G-max leon's charizard: 225gt
 
Dudes, that Piloswine should be treated as a full evolution mon because:
  • It's not only of Team Rocket, but is also stronger than the other Piloswines as it's bigger than the average one.
  • Was able to contend with a Politoed.
  • At the time it was a full evolution.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Dudes, that Piloswine should be treated as a full evolution mon because:
  • It's not only of Team Rocket, but is also stronger than the other Piloswines as it's bigger than the average one.
  • Was able to contend with a Politoed.
  • At the time it was a full evolution.
Click to expand...
He literally said that it should scale to final evolution
 
So, other than this we have also to:
  • Make Stage 1 mons only MHS+ via upscaling from base, the calc they're based on is a joke calc and yet was taken seriously.
  • Update the Lifting Strenght to the following:
    • Peak Human for Baby (Upscaling from Chuck)
    • Class 25 for Base (Coz Mantyke)
    • Class 25 for Stage 1 via upscaling (Class 50 feats are non-existent, but I can get more if I calc this)
    • Class K for Stage 2 and Legendaries (Due of Ash's Gible, who is consistently shown at such level)
 
StrymULTRA said:
A have a good news about LS:

LGPE Dex is this

One arm alone can move mountains. Using all four arms, this Pokémon fires off awesome punches.

And Class T is the one that is related to Mountain level LS on the page.

So Fully evolved mons should at very least be on these levels in LS.

Last thing that really remains imo is just to check the Machoke feat to see if Stage 1 are Class M or still on 25.
Click to expand...
I did a calc on this, and it was Class T, but it wouldn't scale to all final evos. Machamp is among the best in terms of LS, so the only ones who'd scale are Machamp, Grimmsnarl, and Megas and Gigantamaxes.

Also, gotta agree with Bambu about the Class M calc
 
Also, Centiskorch hasn't a profile, so scaling from someone who hasn't a profile is eeeeeeeh.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Also, Centiskorch hasn't a profile, so scaling from someone who hasn't a profile is eeeeeeeh.
Click to expand...
Time to make one then
DragonGamerZ913 said:
I don't think 2x is accepted for super-effective moves outside the games.
Click to expand...
Darn. Still we shouldn't scale him directly to 5x as he still used a super effective move and thus should scale notably above 2x, he did take hits from g-max pikachu.

Also can you ping the other mods like i asked you to so they can agree or disagree to magnitude?
 
Arceus0x said:
Time to make one then

Darn. Still we shouldn't scale him directly to 5x as he still used a super effective move and thus should scale notably above 2x, he did take hits from g-max pikachu.
Click to expand...
We can scale him notably above Ash's Pikachu at least, which is essentially scaling notably above 2x
 
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