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BIG POKEMON UPGRADES

I currently won't be able to create profiles for the time being, can someone do it when the changes will be applied?
 
Arceus0x said:
Darn. Still we shouldn't scale him directly to 5x as he still used a super effective move and thus should scale notably above 2x, he did take hits from g-max pikachu.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't Leon scale directly to the 5x by being stronger than Raihan? (Raihan's Base Duraludon could keep up with a Dynamaxed Kommo-o and defeated all of Oleana's Pokémon when they were Dynamaxed)
 
btw i am tryna make a centiskorch profile, do we add tm moves? cause i am seeing lots of them in the profiles for the likes of charizard
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Wouldn't Leon scale directly to the 5x by being stronger than Raihan? (Raihan's Base Duraludon could keep up with a Dynamaxed Kommo-o and defeated all of Oleana's Pokémon when they were Dynamaxed)
Click to expand...
Gigantamax is strictly superior to Dynamax. We can't apply the 5x multiplier to Dynamax, so the answer is no. In addition, with Oleana's Pokemon, we can't assume that Duraludon was in its base form when it defeated them.
 
guys how about we wait with some stuff.

I want to get ap out of the way and also the speed thread i linked. We need an AP agreement and that's that atm, it is gonna be hard changing the entirety of the ap and striking strength
let's do ls later
 
also imma be real i gave up on trying as i never made a profile page for pokemon
vsbattles.fandom.com

Arceus0x/sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
here's the sandbox to make your life easier, you can add up to it.
 
Alright, here's my full opinion on how I believe things should be for AP scaling:

Final evolutions: 15.08 gigatons (6-C)
Mega Evolutions/Marowak with Bone: 30.16 gigatons (6-C)
Leon's Charizard: At least 30.16 gigatons (At least 6-C)
Gigantamaxes: 75.4 gigatons (6-C+)
Leon's G-Max Charizard: 150.8 gigatons (High 6-C)

This is all assuming that Magnitude is accepted. If not, I think it should look like this:

Final evolutions: 3.1 gigatons (High 7-A+)
Mega Evolutions/Marowak with Bone: 6.2 gigatons (6-C)
Leon's Charizard: At least 6.2 gigatons (At least 6-C)
Gigantamaxes: 15.5 gigatons (6-C)
Leon's G-Max Charizard: 31 gigatons (6-C)
 
So we have for LS:
  • Baby: At least Peak Human
  • Base: Class 25
  • Stage 1: At least Class 25
  • Stage 2: Class 100 (Heracross and Snornal)
  • Machamp and Grimmsnarl: Class T
  • Mega, Gigantamax and Legendaries: At least Class T
I'm a bit disappointed but that's what it is.
 
You probably could, since I believe Brock's Happiny has been comparable to final stage Pokemon
 
i would personally scale her to 1st stages (or mid evos or whatever you call it) but whatever

anyways COULD ANYONE PLEASE PING THE REST OF THE MODS SO THEY CAN GIVE THEIR THOUGHTS ON MAGNITUDE 10 AP?
 
Arceus0x said:
i would personally scale her to 1st stages (or mid evos or whatever you call it) but whatever

anyways COULD ANYONE PLEASE PING THE REST OF THE MODS SO THEY CAN GIVE THEIR THOUGHTS ON MAGNITUDE 10 AP?
Click to expand...
Tbh, if they didn't counter the new points, I guess that it's good to go. Many CRT went like this.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Tbh, if they didn't counter the new points, I guess that it's good to go. Many CRT went like this.
Click to expand...
They never saw the new points bro. We gotta call em so they can give their opinion otherwise this might get retconned. They saw G-maxes becoming 15gt, not G-maxes becoming 75gt
 
The OP generally makes sense to me.

I'm still unsure about using Magnitude in general as justification for AP. As has been said, stage 1 Pokemon can also use that and potentially get Magnitude 10. But the calculations are fine so I can agree with that at least.
 
KieranH10 said:
I'm still unsure about using Magnitude in general as justification for AP. As has been said, stage 1 Pokemon can also use that and potentially get Magnitude 10. But the calculations are fine so I can agree with that at least.
Click to expand...
I've already answered why it should be used:
  • Not using it would mean that Solar Beam should be dismissed as well as even Base Pokémon can dodge Solar Beam in gameplay, which is untrue.
  • Defog can be used from anyone too, but its results are applied to only full evos.
  • Magnitude 10 can be used from fully evos as their feats are >Magnitude 9, making 10 actually supported now.
 
Two, or Four wrongs don't make a right.

Either the higher feats scale to everyone, or they don't scale to anyone. We cant arbitrarily scale moves that all Pokemon can learn only to higher tiers because they give high results. If a first stage Pokemon can use Defog, it either scales to that first stage Pokemon, or is disregarded. Same applies to Magnitude.
 
Game Mechanics are a thing for one. It obviously is wrong scaling Pidgey to Defog, but since Pidgeot has scaling to comparable feats, then scaling Defog to it is legit.

Same with Magnitude, it gives random values between 1 and 10. We can perfectly use feats to decide which degree of magnitude they scale of. Base and Stage 1 scale to lower degrees, Fully evolved scale to higher ones because they have feats supporting them being actually able to use such. It's simple as that.
 
I'm neutral on this general subject, leaning towards disagreeing with the Magnitude argument. We're accepting that first stage Pokemon can use magnitude, but ignoring how the move actually works.
 
They can use it, but only on lower degrees as even supported from the lore. Since fully evolved have feats of using higher ones, disregarding it would as bad as disregarding Solar Beam because of this, and I rest my case.
 
Anyway, I found 2 LS feats for Poké Humans

1) Wulfric lifts Avalugg with Bonnie on it, with Avalugg being 505 kg heavy and Bonnie being 25.8 Kg (as she's 8 yo) making the total weight 530.8 Kg (Peak Human)
tumblr_o7fx3rqL8I1rduh3zo2_500.gif


2) Alder trowing Gigalith (Peak Human)

3) Ash's log trow calc, who is both 206,480.59103 Joules (9-B) and 4164.09 Kg (Class 5)

Every Human should scale from this and Baby Pokémon upscale too.
 
Last edited:
ElixirBlue said:
What is the scaling everyone is settling on?
Click to expand...
In AP:
DragonGamerZ913 said:
Alright, here's my full opinion on how I believe things should be for AP scaling:

Final evolutions: 15.08 gigatons (6-C)
Mega Evolutions/Marowak with Bone: 30.16 gigatons (6-C)
Leon's Charizard: At least 30.16 gigatons (At least 6-C)
Gigantamaxes: 75.4 gigatons (6-C+)
Leon's G-Max Charizard: 150.8 gigatons (High 6-C)

This is all assuming that Magnitude is accepted. If not, I think it should look like this:

Final evolutions: 3.1 gigatons (High 7-A+)
Mega Evolutions/Marowak with Bone: 6.2 gigatons (6-C)
Leon's Charizard: At least 6.2 gigatons (At least 6-C)
Gigantamaxes: 15.5 gigatons (6-C)
Leon's G-Max Charizard: 31 gigatons (6-C)
Click to expand...
In LS:
  • Humans: Class 5
  • Baby: At least Class 5
  • Base: Class 25
  • Stage 1: At least Class 25
  • Stage 2: Class M
  • Machamp and Grimmsnarl: Class T
  • Mega and Gigantamax: At least Class T
  • Legendaries: At least Class T, likely far higher
Edit: Speed for Stage 1 will be just "At least Massively Hypersonic+", the Sub-Rel+ was based on a joke calc which was seriously applied. Agreed on the FTL final stages thread.
 
StrymULTRA said:
So, other than this we have also to:
  • Update the Lifting Strenght to the following:
    • Peak Human for Baby (Upscaling from Chuck)
    • Class 25 for Base (Coz Mantyke)
    • Class 25 for Stage 1 via upscaling (Class 50 feats are non-existent, but I can get more if I calc this)
    • Class K for Stage 2 and Legendaries (Due of Ash's Gible, who is consistently shown at such level)
Click to expand...
I made this calc for Pokemon lifting strength. Yet to be accepted, but it could potentially make all Pokemon that learn Strength (HM) Class K.

StrymULTRA said:
It's learned at low levels from low stages. However, since Team Rocket's Piloswine and Tyranitar feats are actually pretty close to the 10, I don't think it's an immense screech to make the 10 usable, since this time is actually supported.
Click to expand...
Why not just use the calcs that we have though? The calcs support High 7-A+ from Magnitude 9 earthquakes, it's not a big leap to assume they can cause Magnitude 10 earthquakes but it's a leap nonetheless.

For the Defog and Solar Beam counter arguments, Defog has already been contested on several occasions for these same reasons though this was never resolved since it was just a support feat anyway. Also iirc it uses map scaling, which would be a no-no anyways. Solar Beam has already been resolved in the OP, though if the argument is to give first stage Pokemon SoL attack speed I wouldn't mind that.
 
If im being honest we never see any fully evolved pokemon (unless extremely well trained or a legendary) blitz any lower stages. They are faster but never have they been shown to move that fast
 
I mean, with the exception of notably fast Pokemon like Ninjask, everyone in Pokemon appears to move at comparable speeds, from Baby Pokemon to Legendaries. I guess that's why Solar Beam was never too problematic.
 
StrymULTRA said:
In AP:

In LS:
  • Humans: Class 5
  • Baby: At least Class 5
  • Base: Class 25
  • Stage 1: At least Class 25
  • Stage 2: Class M
  • Machamp and Grimmsnarl: Class T
  • Mega and Gigantamax: At least Class T
  • Legendaries: At least Class T, likely far higher
Edit: Speed for Stage 1 will be just "At least Massively Hypersonic+", the Sub-Rel+ was based on a joke calc which was seriously applied. Agreed on the FTL final stages thread.
Click to expand...
If there are no further need to discuss, I say it good to apply. Nothing I can tell immediately seems out of place.

StrymULTRA said:
What about Magnitude 10?
Click to expand...
I dunno about Magnitude 10. If its still in discussion, you could make a thread dedicated to it while applying the things accepted.
 
ElixirBlue said:
I dunno about Magnitude 10. If its still in discussion, you could make a thread dedicated to it while applying the things accepted.
Click to expand...
Uhm, no. This is about AP, we can talk about it here.
GyroNutz said:
Why not just use the calcs that we have though? The calcs support High 7-A+ from Magnitude 9 earthquakes, it's not a big leap to assume they can cause Magnitude 10 earthquakes but it's a leap nonetheless
Click to expand...
They can canonically use it. Discarding it as they never did is nonsense.
 
So in general it seems that mag 10 is mostly rejected. I'll make a calc and add it to calc list but unless this argument goes anywhere we're just gonna need to apply the 3.1gt one
 
Btw i messed up a little.

The feat is 3.18 not 3.1 gigatons so the scaling would be higher such as 6.2gt becoming 6.4
 
The High 7-A+ seems fine. Good thing I mentioned how scaling probably will be in a post so it's all compiled right there.
 
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