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So no multiplier/scaling chain for these two?
basically

megas > Marrowak with thick club = 2x 3.1gt

G-max > 5x attack from ash's pikachu (Pikachu 2x, Dragonite 2x, Riolu 1x)

Leon's Charizard at least > 2.5x as he used a super-effective move to take out a g-max
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
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I've finished updating gen 4 profiles. One other thing I'd like to do is to update the calculations section in the verse page, removing any unaccepted calculations and separating it into relevant and supporting calculations. I made a draft of what I mean here.
 
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I've finished updating gen 4 profiles. One other thing I'd like to do is to update the calculations section in the verse page, removing any unaccepted calculations and separating it into relevant and supporting calculations. I made a draft of what I mean here.
I feel like keeping some would be fine as otherwise it'd be a pain to find. Or you can just make a blog "poke-calcs archive" and add them
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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I feel like keeping some would be fine as otherwise it'd be a pain to find. Or you can just make a blog "poke-calcs archive" and add them
I mean, we shouldn't list unaccepted calcs. Though all of the main calcs used for scaling have been accepted anyway so it doesn't really affect much, just a bit of clean-up really.
 
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I mean, we shouldn't list unaccepted calcs. Though all of the main calcs used for scaling have been accepted anyway so it doesn't really affect much, just a bit of clean-up really.
If they are unaccepted then they need reviewing, if they are rejected then yeah sure go ahead. If they are accepted but not used then please make a blog and put them there as i don't want to lose them by accident.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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If they are unaccepted then they need reviewing, if they are rejected then yeah sure go ahead. If they are accepted but not used then please make a blog and put them there as i don't want to lose them by accident.
I think we should link supporting calcs in a separate tabber to make the page look neater. As shown here.

I'll keep a track of unaccepted calcs in the same sandbox that aren't joke calcs.
 
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Calc members don't really take 'priority'. If there's disagreement, it needs to be discussed in a calc group thread.
If it's our most knowledgeable calc member then yeah, he does. Ant can tell you the same exact thing.


No, DontTalk proved it isn't Magnitude 9 in the blog with citation, so it needs to be adjusted accordingly.
 
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If it's our most knowledgeable calc member then yeah, he does. Ant can tell you the same exact thing.


No, DontTalk proved it isn't Magnitude 9 in the blog with citation, so it needs to be adjusted accordingly.
Dude, being his loyal puppy doesn't help here. If someone accepted, then it is for the same reason why sysops opinions aren't > mods. Also, DT opinion isn't absolute.
 
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Dude, being his loyal puppy doesn't help here. If someone accepted, then it is for the same reason why sysops opinions aren't > mods. Also, DT opinion isn't absolute.
First of all, don't call me his loyal puppy. I'm not an animal and I'd appreciate it if you didn't address me as such. Secondly, he provided factual evidence.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
If it's our most knowledgeable calc member then yeah, he does. Ant can tell you the same exact thing.
All calc members are knowledgeable enough to give judgement on these calcs, hence why they have the role. No one calc member can just outvote another. Again, any disagreement needs to be sorted out in a calc group discussion thread.
 
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First of all, don't call me his loyal puppy. I'm not an animal and I'd appreciate it if you didn't address me as such. Secondly, he provided factual evidence.
First I call whoever I want like whatever I want. Second, if no one agreed with it it's not accepted. Sorry.
 
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All calc members are knowledgeable enough to give judgement on these calcs, hence why they have the role. No one calc member can just outvote another. Again, any disagreement needs to be sorted out in a calc group discussion thread.
No it doesn't, it needs to be discussed in the blog itself if there's disagreement between two calculations members.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
No it doesn't, it needs to be discussed in the blog itself if there's disagreement between two calculations members.
Yes it does, this is how we've always done things. Calc blogs don't notify you when someone responds to your message, and they're far more closed off than a calc group thread. And I doubt it's just between two calc members, since several other calc group members in the thread seemed okay to use the calc.

My main problem though was with the idea that one calc member can out-prioritize another, which is ridiculous. All calc members have equal say.
 
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Yes it does, this is how we've always done things. Calc blogs don't notify you when someone responds to your message, and they're far more closed off than a calc group thread. And I doubt it's just between two calc members, since several other calc group members in the thread seemed okay to use the calc.
No, we literally don't. That's a case by case basis, calc group thread are only made when theres disagreement regarding stuff such as pixel scaling, different calculations, etc. If the calculation is inherently flawed (we wouldn't open a calc group thread just because of a simple math error.) this is no different.
My main problem though was with the idea that one calc member can out-prioritize another, which is ridiculous. All calc members have equal say.
Read above.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
No, we literally don't. That's a case by case basis, calc group thread are only made when theres disagreement regarding stuff such as pixel scaling, different calculations, etc. If the calculation is inherently flawed (we wouldn't open a calc group thread just because of a simple math error.) this is no different.
I'm not going to repeat myself again. We do, and it's the main way in which calc disagreements are settled. What you consider to be a "simple maths error" isn't necessarily what it actually is (seems like more of a logic error).

Read above.
?
 
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So you ignore even Dragon's agreement with this CRT despite being a calc member themselves because you don't like the calc k
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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That's on you, we evidently don't and I already stated why. This is common knowledge literally everyone on the calc team will tell you.
We have in the past and we still do. I've given reasons why this way is more effective + I've seen this happening myself. Drop this.
 
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Know what I'll go ahead and grab a calc group member to say the same exact thing. I'm not gonna be silenced just because you believe your right when you inherently aren't with all due respect.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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1,859
Know what I'll go ahead and grab a calc group member to say the same exact thing. I'm not gonna be silenced just because you believe your right when you inherently aren't with all due respect.
I'm not "silencing" you. I'm telling you to stop derailing the thread by repeating something which is objectively false. And if you're so against "silencing", then why are you so against a calc group thread being made to discuss this calc?
 
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I'm not "silencing" you. I'm telling you to stop derailing the thread by repeating something which is objectively false. And if you're so against "silencing", then why are you so against a calc group thread being made to discuss this calc?
Because, again this is something relatively minor? The blog just needs to be updated accordingly, that's literally all. There isn't issue with the pixel scaling, there isn't issues with the statements, so on and so forth. You're purposely stonewalling for something something happens with calculations all the time. If it's something that can be adjusted then a calc group isn't needed, it just needs to adjusted accordingly. This isn't like when two calculations on the same feat are made, this is a simple fix that can be dealt with in the blog.
 
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I mean, you're basically minimodding as you're literally talking for him despite he didn't even push his concerns here. If other calc members agreed, then it's good.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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Because, again this is something relatively minor? The blog just needs to be updated accordingly, that's literally all. There isn't issue with the pixel scaling, there isn't issues with the statements, so on and so forth. You're purposely stonewalling for something something happens with calculations all the time. If it's something that can be adjusted then a calc group isn't needed, it just needs to adjusted accordingly. This isn't like when two calculations on the same feat are made, this is a simple fix that can be dealt with in the blog.
This assumes that DontTalk is correct, which evidently a calc group member (and likely several others that accepted the results of this thread) disagrees with. Hence why they should discuss their disagreement, in a place meant for discussing and where calc members usually discuss, like the calc group discussion thread. I'm not stonewalling anything, I want this to be discussed properly.
 
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This assumes that DontTalk is correct, which evidently a calc group member (and likely several others that accepted the results of this thread) disagrees with.
First off, nobody disagreed with DontTalk, that never happened in the blog or this thread. Matter of fact DontTalk commented 2 days ago, the other calc member accepted it long before DontTalk commented.

Hence why they should discuss their disagreement, in a place meant for discussing and where calc members usually discuss, like the calc group discussion thread. I'm not stonewalling anything, I want this to be discussed properly.
And it can be done properly in the blog post itself. Making a calf group discussion for such a small change would be a waste of staff time.
 
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First off, nobody disagreed with DontTalk, that never happened in the blog or this thread. Matter of fact DontTalk commented 2 days ago, the other calc member accepted it long before DontTalk commented.
Like no one agreed with him lmfao. Why are you defending him so much anyway
 
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Like no one agreed with him lmfao. Why are you defending him so much anyway
Because nobody saw his comment? He literally used what is accepted on the wiki? Going by our own wiki standards the calculations needs to be adjusted.


Actually know what your talking about before spewing condensing nonsense as if you know what's being discussed.
 

KingTempest

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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Yall are tryna say because he didn't get a ginormous reply chain that his opinion on the calc doesn't matter until a thread is made. Ridiculous.

If a Calc Group Member or the Consultant of Calculations disagrees with a calc for a valid reason, then we wait. We don't ignore the remark because a single person said "this works", as I've seen several CGM make mistakes and get corrected by other CGMs and even regular members after they've evaluated calculations.

And stop these petty remarks, all of you. Last warning
 
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anyways i will wait for a reply but through what i understood i might have messed up my own calc. I misunderstood mercalli intensity and it is probably not IX but rather XI which would be far more consistent
Few, if any, (masonry) structures remain standing. Bridges are destroyed. Broad fissures erupt in the ground. Underground pipelines are rendered completely out of service. Earth slumps and land slips in soft ground. Rails are bent greatly.

which pretty much fits the description frame perfect which would garner mag 9. I am waiting for a reply but i think i understood the issue.
 
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anyways i will wait for a reply but through what i understood i might have messed up my own calc. I misunderstood mercalli intensity and it is probably not IX but rather XI which would be far more consistent
Few, if any, (masonry) structures remain standing. Bridges are destroyed. Broad fissures erupt in the ground. Underground pipelines are rendered completely out of service. Earth slumps and land slips in soft ground. Rails are bent greatly.

which pretty much fits the description frame perfect which would garner mag 9. I am waiting for a reply but i think i understood the issue.
Exactly why I said go this way instead of making a separate thread. Like damn, I try to help a guy out and everyone gets so tight about it.
 
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Exactly why I said go this way instead of making a separate thread. Like damn, I try to help a guy out and everyone gets so tight about it.
Idk man stuff's been tight for some people, maybe the amount of nerfs getting handed out to every big verse every week/day.

anyways this shouldn't be a problem in the tyranitar calc as he literally screwed over a great mountain like, come on, there's 0 way that it isn't the maximum intensity.
 

DragonGamerZ913

VS Battles
Calculation Group
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Idk man stuff's been tight for some people, maybe the amount of nerfs getting handed out to every big verse every week/day.

anyways this shouldn't be a problem in the tyranitar calc as he literally screwed over a great mountain like, come on, there's 0 way that it isn't the maximum intensity.
Agree with this, the Tyranitar calc should be fine as is because no real-life earthquake can crumble a mountain so we kinda need to go big for that one.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
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First off, nobody disagreed with DontTalk, that never happened in the blog or this thread. Matter of fact DontTalk commented 2 days ago, the other calc member accepted it long before DontTalk commented.
Calc members accepted it, DontTalk didn't. That's a fundamental disagreement. I've already said my piece on why keeping the discussion to blog comment replies is a bad idea.

But yeah, as is the earthquake calcs are already pretty lowballed.
 
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Your "piece." is wrong, bloodly hell even the OP was fine with doing so. A thread isn't being made to address something so minor, that's final. If the two participants are both agreeing on such terms then you have no say in this, especially for someone who isn't in the calculations group to be frank. Everyone who's commented here disagrees with you as far that "making a thread." is concerned.


Anyway we're over that now and we're taking for DontTalk to reply.
 

DragonGamerZ913

VS Battles
Calculation Group
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Even so, I think we can move forward with scaling revisions for the most part because the other High 7-A+ calc isn't affected by this, and it's the primary one used for scaling
 
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Also, where does the Mountain level for Team Rocket comes from? I can't find the calc that put them in the Mountain level range
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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1,859
Your "piece." is wrong, bloodly hell even the OP was fine with doing so. A thread isn't being made to address something so minor, that's final. If the two participants are both agreeing on such terms then you have no say in this, especially for someone who isn't in the calculations group to be frank. Everyone who's commented here disagrees with you as far that "making a thread." is concerned.
Tone down the arrogance, jeez. You have no right to be pulling rank here when you aren't a calc group member yourself. The changes are being discussed in a thread - not a calc group thread, granted, though this thread would not have derailed for 50-odd posts if it were in the first place. Keeping the discussion purely to the calc blog comment reply chain is wholly inefficient and not how we do things.

Anyways, now that's out of the way, does anyone have any suggestions/opinions on a new format for the calculations section? The calcs listed beneath the sandbox won't be put on the main page btw, along with any other unaccepted calcs.
 
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Tone down the arrogance, jeez. You have no right to be pulling rank here when you aren't a calc group member yourself. The changes are being discussed in a thread - not a calc group thread, granted, though this thread would not have derailed for 50-odd posts if it were in the first place. Keeping the discussion purely to the calc blog comment reply chain is wholly inefficient and not how we do things.

Anyways, now that's out of the way, does anyone have any suggestions/opinions on a new format for the calculations section? The calcs listed beneath the sandbox won't be put on the main page btw, along with any other unaccepted calcs.
Wait, is the 8-A rating for first stage Pokemon comes from Rhyhorn? It is not even link to his profile. Not to mention, there is the Pidgey's page which have them scales to some other feat
 

DragonGamerZ913

VS Battles
Calculation Group
2,954
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Question since this is about Pokemon upgrades: Would Z-Moves and regular Dynamax be considered superior to Mega Evolutions since they can hit through Protect while Megas can't?
 
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Yeah that's the only 8-A+ feat currently. Hurricanes used to be 8-A+ too, hence why it's on Pidgey's page, but it's since been downgraded to 8-B/8-B+.
I see, then some of the profiles need to have their justification changed to reflect that the 8-A comes from Rhyhorn since the Pidgey calc has been downgraded
 
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Eh so he think that level 8 or 7 magnitude is the best option? Then the feat would be :

Level 8 magnitude :

92.8 megatons (City level+)
very damm close to Mountain level

Level 7 magnitude :


2.9 megatons ( small City level)
The feat is being discussed as i messed up the mercalli intensity and thus it is probably gonna stay at mag 9...once DT REPLIES THAT IS
 
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Tone down the arrogance, jeez. You have no right to be pulling rank here when you aren't a calc group member yourself. The changes are being discussed in a thread - not a calc group thread, granted, though this thread would not have derailed for 50-odd posts if it were in the first place. Keeping the discussion purely to the calc blog comment reply chain is wholly inefficient and not how we do things.

Anyways, now that's out of the way, does anyone have any suggestions/opinions on a new format for the calculations section? The calcs listed beneath the sandbox won't be put on the main page btw, along with any other unaccepted calcs.
The sandbox should also includes multiplier scaling like the 5x Gigantamax and what are their values. As well as other scaling like Articuno, Moltres and Zapdos are 3x weaker than Lugia, etc.
 
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@GyroNutz

I am currently going through some tough times as sicknesses and school along with sleep deprivation isn't helping me out much.

Could you please finish the upgrades for me? Ik that that request is selfish but may you? The upgrades are based on an undisputed calculation so you might as well complete them.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
Question since this is about Pokemon upgrades: Would Z-Moves and regular Dynamax be considered superior to Mega Evolutions since they can hit through Protect while Megas can't?
I mean if we're using Protect scaling we could scale Z-Moves to Dynamax Pokemon using Max Moves, since they both do 25% through Protect. Dynamax is already considered superior to Mega Evolutions btw.

The sandbox should also includes multiplier scaling like the 5x Gigantamax and what are their values. As well as other scaling like Articuno, Moltres and Zapdos are 3x weaker than Lugia, etc.
Could do that for Mega and Gigantamax multipliers I suppose, I think it's clear what level the legendary birds are at though from their profiles.

I am currently going through some tough times as sicknesses and school along with sleep deprivation isn't helping me out much.

Could you please finish the upgrades for me? Ik that that request is selfish but may you? The upgrades are based on an undisputed calculation so you might as well complete them.
I'll try to, though it'll likely be a slow process. Hope you feel better soon.

Is Brock supposed to be 8-A? Since both Misty and Lt. Surge are 8-A while he's High 7-C?
Yeah, other first gym leaders like Cheren are 8-A.
 

DragonGamerZ913

VS Battles
Calculation Group
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I mean if we're using Protect scaling we could scale Z-Moves to Dynamax Pokemon using Max Moves, since they both do 25% through Protect. Dynamax is already considered superior to Mega Evolutions btw.
I think it makes sense. Also notable that in the anime, Pikachu's standard electric type moves (which are comparable to Mega Pokemon moves) did some damage to Misty's Mega Gyarados while its Gigavolt Havoc did a lot of damage and defeated it.

I'm asking because, for example, Lycanroc would go from "High 7-A, higher with Splintered Stormshards" to "High 7-A, 6-C with Splintered Stormshards"
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
I think it makes sense. Also notable that in the anime, Pikachu's standard electric type moves (which are comparable to Mega Pokemon moves) did some damage to Misty's Mega Gyarados while its Gigavolt Havoc did a lot of damage and defeated it.
Yeah, there was also the time where Kukui's Incineroar one-shot a Mega Aggron with Malicious Moonsault. Granted, Kukui is basically a champion-tier trainer.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
Hey, any supporters here who are somewhat decent at editing, I'd appreciate help with updating the numerous Pokemon profiles that we have. I've updated all our Gen 4, 5 and 6 profiles, and I believe Adam covered gen 8 profiles + Arceus covered the gen 1 profiles before he left. That leaves gens 2, 3 and 7. Even if you volunteer to update a select few profiles, it'll be appreciated.

So to clarify:

High 7-A+ fully evolved Pokemon, scaling from Tyranitar and manga Piloswine's feat.

6-C pure/huge power Pokemon (+ thick club Marowak), via being 2x Tyranitar's feat, and megas via being > the former.

5x multiplier for Dynamax, Gigantamax and Eternamax due to Dragonite, Pikachu and Riolu's combined attack matching a G-Max Centiskorch (resulting in 6-C gigantamax Pokemon).

FTL fully evolved Pokemon, scaling from Golem and anime Lycanroc, and megas etc, scaling from Ash Greninja

Class K strength users, via scaling to Gible and via pushing the blocks in the Abyssal Ruins.

Class M fully evolved Pokemon, via scaling above Brock's Happiny

Class T legendaries (and gigantamax Pokemon?), via scaling above Machamp
This ^ is the list of stuff that needs to be changed. If you notice any other outdated statistics (e.g. Sub-Relativistic speed scaling from Seismic Toss) then please adjust those too.
 
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What are the calcs for the speed rating for all the stages of Pokemon, since I'm still seeing the Sub-Rel even in edited Pokemon profiles like Rillaboom
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
What are the calcs for the speed rating for all the stages of Pokemon, since I'm still seeing the Sub-Rel even in edited Pokemon profiles like Rillaboom
First stages scale to lightning, which is about Mach 1100 or MHS+. Second stages upscale from first stages since Seismic Toss was deemed unusable. Final stages scale to Ash's Lycanroc and Golem, both of whom are FTL (2.08c and 1.17c respectively). Certain trained megas and base legendary Pokemon upscale from Ash-Greninja, who is also FTL (6.78c). Any 5-B Pokemon scale to Deoxys who is MFTL+, any 3-C Pokemon scale to Lunala who is higher into MFTL+, but MFTL scaling should already be sorted.
 

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
12,051
1,859
Hey, any supporters here who are somewhat decent at editing, I'd appreciate help with updating the numerous Pokemon profiles that we have. I've updated all our Gen 4, 5 and 6 profiles, and I believe Adam covered gen 8 profiles + Arceus covered the gen 1 profiles before he left. That leaves gens 2, 3 and 7. Even if you volunteer to update a select few profiles, it'll be appreciated.


This ^ is the list of stuff that needs to be changed. If you notice any other outdated statistics (e.g. Sub-Relativistic speed scaling from Seismic Toss) then please adjust those too.
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