Bergamo (DBS) upgrade

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I'm astonished.

For the fact that this character isn't 3-A in base, he was able to fight toe to toe woth base Goku when the fight started.

Here is the video:




The pruporse is simple, is to upgrade this character to 3-A based on this feat.

Hope this upgrade can go through.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Goku was initially going easy on him, but became stronger once Goku started using Ki blasts, but eventually was barely unable to absorb the Kamahamaha Wave from a SSB Kaioken Goku.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Goku was initially going easy on him, but became stronger once Goku started using Ki blasts, but eventually was barely unable to absorb the Kamahamaha Wave from a SSB Kaioken Goku.

I see them pretty even actually, I know Goku can lower his ki level... But if you look carefully, there is not any indication stating that Goku at the start of the fight was going easy on him, that was on his Super Saiyan form where he stated that.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Bump

 

[AdNiBN002]

Goku was initially going easy on him, but became stronger once Goku started using Ki blasts, but eventually was barely unable to absorb the Kamahamaha Wave from a SSB Kaioken Goku.

The Trio de Danger trio also fought Goku early in the ToP, and there weren't any signs of Goku holding back then, Basel could even fight SS1 Vegeta. The Trio de Danger as a whole could take and dish out blows to SS1 Goku and Vegeta individually.

 

[Dalesean027]

You can't always take goku being in super saiyan especially in the anime ToP specifically to mean he's going all out because he'd go super saiyan and still heavily suppress himself to a insane degree often times in that arc same goes for base Goku here. Pre-top trio definitely sit around buu saga level and bergamo definitely gets higher up to possibly with absorption pre-top although we still know Goku wasn't going all out in his first fight with bergamo and still heavily suppressed himself

I'm with Medeus on this one

The Trio de Danger trio also fought Goku early in the ToP, and there weren't any signs of Goku holding back then, Basel could even fight SS1 Vegeta. The Trio de Danger as a whole could take and dish out blows to SS1 Goku and Vegeta individually.

Also that'd just mean they need expo-match and T.O.P keys with their t.o.p selves being universe level and we know as well that the trio de danger do get far stronger when using teamwork that's about it

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

You can't always take goku being in super saiyan especially in the anime ToP specifically to mean he's going all out because he'd go super saiyan and still heavily suppress himself to a insane degree often times in that arc same goes for base Goku here. Pre-top trio definitely sit around buu saga level and bergamo definitely gets higher up to possibly with absorption pre-top although we still know Goku wasn't going all out in his first fight with bergamo and still heavily suppressed himself

I'm with Medeus on this one
Also that'd just mean they need expo-match and T.O.P keys with their t.o.p selves being universe level and we know as well that the trio de danger do get far stronger when using teamwork that's about it

Goku only said that he was holding back when he was in SSJ.

From the start Bergamo was fighting against base Goku toe to toe.
Bergamo didn't break a sweat too from the bigening as Goku, nor he was tired or nervous, you can see it when Goku blocked Bergamo's hand which was going directly at his face.

 

[AdNiBN002]

You can't always take goku being in super saiyan especially in the anime ToP specifically to mean he's going all out because he'd go super saiyan and still heavily suppress himself to a insane degree often times in that arc same goes for base Goku here.

I agree with this in premise, although I don't see anything indicating that they were holding back in the ToP in that matchup specifically. If anything it seems that they were forced into SS1 rather than just doing it for the sake of it.

Also that'd just mean they need expo-match and T.O.P keys with their t.o.p selves being universe level and we know as well that the trio de danger do get far stronger when using teamwork that's about it

I agree with them having seperate keys. As for the teamwork amp that would likely be a lot higher than just SS1 level as Goku and Vegeta even went SSB to overpower the Trio de Danger beam.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Goku and Vegeta can both go Super Saiyan Blue and make themselves look like they're going all out when they really aren't. Just like what Goku did with Krillin, plus they stomped the trio in the ToP

 

[Dalesean027]

Goku only said that he was holding back when he was in SSJ.

From the start Bergamo was fighting against base Goku toe to toe.
Bergamo didn't break a sweat too from the bigening as Goku, nor he was tired or nervous, you can see it when Goku blocked Bergamo's hand which was going directly at his face.

Bro we know goku went into with every intention sorta testing bergamo and seeing how far he could push his strength, Goku definitely held back the entire time even since the first punches he landed on bergamo intentionally feeding him power like we see goku notice what's happening almost immediately after striking him.

I agree with this in premise, although I don't see anything indicating that they were holding back in the ToP in that matchup specifically. If anything it seems that they were forced into SS1 rather than just doing it for the sake of it.

Yeah in the actual ToP that was a different case and they definitely were stronger than they were prior I'm pretty sure that's even stated

Goku and Vegeta can both go Super Saiyan Blue and make themselves look like they're going all out when they really aren't. Just like what Goku did with Krillin, plus they stomped the trio in the ToP

Correct if I'm wrong but does Vegeta really do this a lot in anime ToP Vegeta if I recall wasn't really transforming unless necessary in ToP and took on people he could take out in lesser forms in those lesser forms and base so I think that'd at least somewhat validate their special team attack.

 

[AdNiBN002]

The Triangle Danger Beam did get stomped, that is true. So if we wanna say that Vegeta and Goku just going SSB isn't applicable for scaling then i'm not gonna go against it.

Although unless we can prove beyond certainty that they were holding back in Base against the Trio during the T.O.P then i don't see any reason to deny a 3A rating/key. They should atleast scale to Base Goku at a low estimate and SS1 Goku at a high estimate.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Wasn't Goku told that if he held back against Bergamo, the universes would be wiped out?

 

[Dalesean027]

Wasn't Goku told that if he held back against Bergamo, the universes would be wiped out?

In the expo match after he already held back against him I'm pretty sure so he out on the whole fake show with blue and kaio, I could be misremembering tho

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Goku and Vegeta can both go Super Saiyan Blue and make themselves look like they're going all out when they really aren't. Just like what Goku did with Krillin, plus they stomped the trio in the ToP

Bergamo isn't like people as Krilin or Roshi, he is an entirely new character that was introduced, the same as Frost who is leagues above any DBZ character.

So we exactly don't know his power very well, nor his exact scaling.
And we saw him fighting base Goku from the start without any signs of extress, struggle in that moments.

So that should warrant him the 3-A tier, the same as Frost in his first appereance

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

In the expo match after he already held back against him I'm pretty sure so he out on the whole fake show with blue and kaio, I could be misremembering tho

When he means helding back.
He was refering about using SSB.
Imagine how absurd it is that even Bergamo held his own for a little against Goku's SSB kaiken Kame hame ha.

Clover's statement strenghtens my point, also; the wolf was trading blows with base Goku from the start, both portrayed as equal from the very start.
I'm not talking about when Bergamo started using his Crusher ability.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Tbf, Vegeta only usually uses his SSB form in desperation and seriousness and isn't the type to good off unlike Goku. Not to mention it's unknown how much energy Bergamo absorbed during the power beam struggle or if he can retain energy he absorbed. But he's definitely the one who carries the weight of the trio for certain.

 

[AppleLord]

Goku was holding back.

 

[Vietthai96]

Imagine you go to higher form just to holding back more

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's called holding back with style, and it's surprisingly one of the best feats of skill out there.

 

[AppleLord]

Imagine you go to higher form just to holding back more

Krillin knows all about it, Goku held back so much against him he had to use SSB with a full power Kamehameha.

 

[Dalesean027]

Literally Goku is one of the only people ik who'd transform just to use less power or slightly more than he was in base to hype someone up and test them or push them past their limits

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Goku explicitly used Super Saiyan Blue against the Team Universe 7 recruits, including Android 17, while holding back in order to motivate them.

 

[Vietthai96]

It's called holding back with style, and it's surprisingly one of the best feats of skill out there.

Why we still not giving Goku supergenius intellect in holding back??

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Any proof that base Goku was holding back at the start of the fight?

Becouse in that case we could say that Bergamo was doing the same, he didn't break a sweat

 

[SirAlex09]

I am pretty sure , Grand Priest forbid Goku from holding back and threatened with erasing them. They made the deal that if Bergamo wins, all Uuniverses will be safe.

 

[SirAlex09]

Here Episode 81:
Grand Priest: "If you should hold back, because you don't want to be erased, Zen oH- Sama will immediately erase all universes"

Imagine if Goku held back and he gets accidently defeated like he did against Frost.... I don't think Goku would risk that. Bergamo was also holding an edge over Goku. He was blitzing him and Goku couldn't even sense his movements at the beginning of the fight. Overall Goku was getting overwhelmed

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Here Episode 81:
Grand Priest: "If you should hold back, because you don't want to be erased, Zen oH- Sama will immediately erase all universes"

Imagine if Goku held back and he gets accidently defeated like he did against Frost.... I don't think Goku would risk that

Yeah it's true, and at the very start of the fight, Bergamo was calmly fighting toe to toe against base Goku.

No signs of struggle or sweat were on Bergamo's face

 

[SirAlex09]

Yeah it's true, and at the very start of the fight, Bergamo was calmly fighting toe to toe against base Goku.

No signs of struggle or sweat were on Bergamo's face

If anything the exact opposite. Just watched the fight. Goku was the one struggling in base

 

[Dalesean027]

Here Episode 81:
Grand Priest: "If you should hold back, because you don't want to be erased, Zen oH- Sama will immediately erase all universes"

Context is important and you all shouldn't twist it to push for upgrades and ignore the narrative this was made in response to bergamo 's request that no universe be erased if he beat goku which Zeno accepted this was then said in context of Goku intentionally losing the match not to save the universe's by not going all out not to him just holding back in general, he could still hold back as long as he's not doing so in effort to intentionally throw the match.

I'd appreciate if y'all didn't try and dance around the narrative to get upgrades it's basically lying in a way

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Context is important and you all shouldn't twist it to push for upgrades and ignore the narrative this was made in response to bergamo 's request that no universe be erased if he beat goku which Zeno accepted this was then said in context of Goku intentionally losing the match not him holding back, he could still hold back as long as he's not doing so in effort to intentionally throw the match.

I'd appreciate if y'all didn't try and dance around the narrative to get upgrades it's basically lying in a way

Yeah sure......, Goku at the very bigening of the fight told Bergamo to use all of their power.

And again, Goku from the start of the fight was the one struggeling in base

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Context is important and you all shouldn't twist it to push for upgrades and ignore the narrative this was made in response to bergamo 's request that no universe be erased if he beat goku which Zeno accepted this was then said in context of Goku intentionally losing the match not to save the universe's by not going all out not to him just holding back im general, he could still hold back as long as he's not doing so in effort to intentionally throw the match.

I'd appreciate if y'all didn't try and dance around the narrative to get upgrades it's basically lying in a way

That's just speculation. "Could" is just a possibility, not a fact

 

[Dalesean027]

That's just speculation. "Could" is just a possibility, not a fact

What are you talking about rn? The "could" I said there was clearly in context of the statement you're trying to use from GP, Goku "could" hold back without the universes being destroyed that's saying it's in available option to him and he very well does hold back and to further that this was in the context of the grand priest once Goku admits to holding back he's not instantly erased and they don't immediately determine that all universes will be erased because of it it's literally only if he threw the match without giving it a real effort to try and save universes from being erased via bergamo's request

 

[SirAlex09]

Context is important and you all shouldn't twist it to push for upgrades and ignore the narrative this was made in response to bergamo 's request that no universe be erased if he beat goku which Zeno accepted this was then said in context of Goku intentionally losing the match not to save the universe's by not going all out not to him just holding back in general, he could still hold back as long as he's not doing so in effort to intentionally throw the match.

Hold on. The statement from GP was clear. If they had the impression that he was holding, they would immediately erase everything. We all know Goku holds back to prolong fights but he clearly wouldn't risk a misunderstanding with the GP and Zeno in that regard.

 

[Dalesean027]

Hold on. The statement from GP was clear. If they had the impression that he was holding, they would immediately erase everything. We all know Goku holds back to prolong fights but he clearly wouldn't risk a misunderstanding with the GP and Zeno in that regard.

Bro what's the point of trying to push a false narrative

If he tries to throw the match to save the universe's that would be saved if Bergamo won by holding back then they'd so

HOWEVER Goku IS NOT trying to throw the match at all and even says he doesn't intend on losing so he's not going to be erased for holding back only if he does so to throw the match and save his universe

 

[Dalesean027]

You have to stop ignoring context for convenience in getting the upgrades you want

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

You have to stop ignoring context for convenience in getting the upgrades you want

 

[Dalesean027]

And we saw that goku lied and held back bro he verbatim said so


Bergamo literally sat there and told goku to attack him to power him up and goku continued to do so to see how far bergamo's limits were while still holding back then just decided to power up and 1 shot him

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

And we saw that goku lied and held back bro he verbatim said so


Bergamo literally sat there and told goku to attack him to power him up and goku continued to do so to see how far bergamo's limits were while still holding back then just decided to power up and 1 shot him

He said it in Super Saiyan. Not in his base form.

From the very bigening both were pretty equal.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Bergamo literally sat there and told goku to attack him to power him up and goku continued to do so to see how far bergamo's limits were while still holding back then just decided to power up and 1 shot him

Not a good point, in that moment Bergamo was slowlier plus Goku had the speed advantage.

The same situation happens with Buff/ascended SS Trunks, Cell told Trunks that he was stronger than even his own, but he was pretty lacking in speed.

 

[Dalesean027]

He said it in Super Saiyan. Not in his base form.

From the very bigening both were pretty equal.

If this was the case and Goku thought he was remotely impressive or comparable compared to his base form or put up any fight then he literally wouldn't have said this post fight



He literally calls bergamo out on trying to absorb his(goku's) own power and use against him the entire fight basically without having done anything of note himself