Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,482
- 1,126
The Introduction
Hi y’all, originally I was gonna save this for if my eventual tackle at universal Ben 10 top tiers ends up being rejected, however I realised the Highbreed wouldn’t be affected by that upgrade so they’d still be stuck with the 4-B/4-A weaponry that I’ve recently realised I have issues with. Also I figured posting a downgrade for a set of characters immediately after an upgrade failed would look pretty bad lol
For context, the Highbreed’s and Galvan’s weaponry were both upgraded earlier this year to “at least 4-B, possibly 4-A” based on this statement (0:54) that says “only” the Galvan has the weaponry to stand up to the Highbreed. This later ended up making Ascalon level characters such as Dagon or Ultimate Way Big this tier, as Ascalon is a very powerful piece of Galvan technology that was also the only thing capable of stopping Dagon. Now I have no issue with this in itself, hell I fully supported it when it first came out, however what I do now have an issue with is which weaponry they scale to. I’ll be covering each one from what I believe are the least to most logical to scale to.
Note: This thread initially intended to downgrade both the Highbreed and Galvan tech. However as seen from the comments I now have new reason for specifically Galvan tech to scale to the Entropy Pump, so this thread now only focuses on the Highbreed. I might’ve missed a few things as I was rearranging everything though, so if I did then my bad.
Btw, some credit goes to @GeneralSol16. Some of these points were either mentioned to me by them or are points I only came up with while talking with them on the General Discussion Thread.
The Weapons
1. The Entropy Pump
The Highbreed’s weaponry will be downgraded from 4-B, possibly 4-A to either High 5-A, likely 4-C or just solid 4-C. Specifically they’ll scale to the Highbreed Warship destroying Galvan Prime (1.46 Quettatons) and Ma Vreedle’s rocket (baseline 4-C, in other words 136.066 Quettatons).
Here’s how the updated description will look:
It might also be worth it to create a civilisation page and/or warship page to better document their strength, but I don’t feel like doing that myself rn.
The End
Wow, not really that much of a doozy anymore. To summarise:
Hi y’all, originally I was gonna save this for if my eventual tackle at universal Ben 10 top tiers ends up being rejected, however I realised the Highbreed wouldn’t be affected by that upgrade so they’d still be stuck with the 4-B/4-A weaponry that I’ve recently realised I have issues with. Also I figured posting a downgrade for a set of characters immediately after an upgrade failed would look pretty bad lol
For context, the Highbreed’s and Galvan’s weaponry were both upgraded earlier this year to “at least 4-B, possibly 4-A” based on this statement (0:54) that says “only” the Galvan has the weaponry to stand up to the Highbreed. This later ended up making Ascalon level characters such as Dagon or Ultimate Way Big this tier, as Ascalon is a very powerful piece of Galvan technology that was also the only thing capable of stopping Dagon. Now I have no issue with this in itself, hell I fully supported it when it first came out, however what I do now have an issue with is which weaponry they scale to. I’ll be covering each one from what I believe are the least to most logical to scale to.
Note: This thread initially intended to downgrade both the Highbreed and Galvan tech. However as seen from the comments I now have new reason for specifically Galvan tech to scale to the Entropy Pump, so this thread now only focuses on the Highbreed. I might’ve missed a few things as I was rearranging everything though, so if I did then my bad.
Btw, some credit goes to @GeneralSol16. Some of these points were either mentioned to me by them or are points I only came up with while talking with them on the General Discussion Thread.
The Weapons
1. The Entropy Pump
- The Entropy Pump was the device created by Professor Paradox that caused him to initially scatter across space-time, and was also what Aggregor used to merge with the Andromeda Five. According to
GasterParadox himself, attempting to bomb the Entropy Pump would cause the destruction of reality for many light years. This is where the 4-A feat comes from. The first big thing to note is how the whole “destroying reality across multiple light years” thing relates to Paradox’s statement about how time travel around Los Soledad weakens the “fabric of space” (Please pardon the Ben 10 Breakdown link, this was the easiest source of the clip I could find and it’s not like it’s going in any pages). Paradox describes the “reality” around Los Soledad as being paper thin, which considering the time portal’s initial purpose would suggest that the “destroying reality across multiple light years” thing is the same phenomenon as what would happen if you time travelled in one place too many times. In other words, causing the Entropy Pump to go boom would completely mess up the space-time of everything it covers, which even in an ideal activation spot away from planets with life is obviously a really bad idea. Big focus on “ideal activation spot” as well, since if you just blow this thing up anywhere you’re potentially wiping out trillions of lives. There’s also simply no reason for the Highbreed to scale to this when you really think about it. The Galvan are the smartest beings in multiple galaxies, potentially the entire universe. Their technology could be trillions of times beyond the Highbreed’s and it wouldn’t contradict anything. The Highbreed also shouldn’t have access to anything like the Entropy Pump as they’re never implied to have temporal manipulating weapons (In fact I just found a statement that suggests the opposite), plus narratively they would’ve just fired it off a few times and ended their genocidal quest incredibly quickly if they really did have access to them. And don’t forget there’s only one Entropy Pump, good luck taking out an entire galaxy-wide fleet with a single bomb that can only be recreated by Galvan-level beings.
- Element X is a substance that, when combined with “Bisyinthium Alloy” (the alien name for iron ore), has the power to destroy the entire solar system. The biggest issue with using this as an argument is simply that it’s nigh-unfeasible to actually use against the Highbreed. In order to gain the full 4-B explosion, you need a lot of iron ore to be melted down and purified first before you combine Element X with it. Just slapping it together with no prep is going to make a much less impressive explosion. This explosion is also instant (meaning it needs a lot of preparation to be placed in a non-risky place) and the process to make the explosion 4-B takes time (meaning it’s essentially impossible to use against an armada that these people don’t even know is coming). Combine all that with the fact that iron ore is extremely rare outside of Earth and that makes it almost impossible to even have access to the needed materials, much less have them all prepared in time for the Highbreed’s surprise invasion. Even if someone did somehow pull it off they’re taking their entire planet with them just to wipe out a couple ships at most, which isn’t exactly what I would call “standing a chance” against the Highbreed.
- Part of Emperor Milleous’ humorously long title is being called a “destroyer of galaxies”, which is used to justify 4-B to 4-A as it would be somewhat difficult to destroy an entire galaxy over time without good AP. However the two issues with this are the speed and size of the Incursean fleet. Ben 10 characters and vehicles are hilariously fast, and the Incursean army is massive. It would actually be very easy to lay waste to an entire galaxy in a relatively short time with the resources they have with only stellar level weaponry or less. This isn’t even getting into whether Milleous’ full title should actually be taken as reliable, as it’s humorously long and glaze-heavy to the point that characters never get an opportunity to finish it.
- As an aside there’s also the matter of said title putting heavy emphasis on the Conquest Ray specifically, heavily suggesting it’s Milleous’ most powerful weapon and should stand at the peak of his “galaxy wiping” arsenal. If this thread ends with it still holding stellar to star system levels of strength, then Way Big blatantly scaling above it has massive implications for the scaling of the verse which’ll need to be covered in a different thread. Of course if Milleous’ title is considered invalid evidence then this changes nothing.
- Ma Vreedle has access to a weapon capable of destroying the sun, which was treated as serious business by the Plumbers who are aware of her criminal history. This is the one weapon that I think actually gives us something to work with. While it’s technically possible that Ma Vreedle didn’t have access to this during the War of the Worlds, her track record combined with the sheer genius of both the Highbreed and Galvan should mean she did have it and/or the two races have superior tech regardless (remember there’s only a one year gap). In fact, this level of power being easily replicated by the Highbreed is the biggest advantage this rocket has that the first two don’t. At worst it should be a likely rating.
The Highbreed’s weaponry will be downgraded from 4-B, possibly 4-A to either High 5-A, likely 4-C or just solid 4-C. Specifically they’ll scale to the Highbreed Warship destroying Galvan Prime (1.46 Quettatons) and Ma Vreedle’s rocket (baseline 4-C, in other words 136.066 Quettatons).
Here’s how the updated description will look:
For some reason they were never updated.
Attack Potency: Large Planet level (Capable of fighting Humungousaur. Some Highbreed are considered stronger than Vilgax), up to Dwarf Star level (Destroyed Galvan Prime), likely Star level with technology (It was stated by Azmuth that “only” the Galvan had the means to fight against the Highbreed, meaning their top weaponry should be comparable or superior to Ma Vreedle’s sun-destroying rocket)
Attack Potency: Large Planet level (Capable of fighting Humungousaur. Some Highbreed are considered stronger than Vilgax), up to Dwarf Star level (Destroyed Galvan Prime), likely Star level with technology (It was stated by Azmuth that “only” the Galvan had the means to fight against the Highbreed, meaning their top weaponry should be comparable or superior to Ma Vreedle’s sun-destroying rocket)
It might also be worth it to create a civilisation page and/or warship page to better document their strength, but I don’t feel like doing that myself rn.
The End
Wow, not really that much of a doozy anymore. To summarise:
- 4-B and 4-A are out.
- 4-C is at least a likely rating, maybe a full rating as I can see the merits either side.
- The Highbreed have their weaponry in their profile now.
- Agree: @GeneralSol16, @Accelerated_Evolution, @Dark_Soul20189, @Reiner04, @Baabasaplar95, @TheOrangeGuy09
- Disagree: @Hellformer, @REX9097
- Neutral: @Hellformer (With Incursean statement removal; “leaning to disagree”), @REX9097 (With Incursean statement removal; “leaning to disagree”)
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