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Ben 10: Crosstime Possibly Low 1-C re-justification.

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Reiner04

Reiner04

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Since I've got 7 days holiday, Cough cough... I'll be just done with what was left.

As we already know, Crosstime is a super imposing time that not just made up of parallel versions of history but also orders all of existence from beginning to the end. This thread is to explain why Crosstime/timestream still qualifies for low 1-C as per current standards.

Of particular consideration are instances in which timelines as a whole being changed, such that there is a timeline (or multiple timelines) before they were changed and after they were changed or created / destroyed. As the timelines as a whole are changed, the before and after in this context can't be the past and future the timelines usually use, but should be a separate direction.
Click to expand...
@Qawsedf234 diagram explaination (in case one is having difficulty in understanding faq quote):
UwxYupJ_d.webp

The above stuff about different versions of the timestream itself was already proven during the event of And Then There Was Ben in which it was shown that Ben and the Omnitrix's intertwined fate was created and connected by a Crosstime-loop. Despite Vilgax destroying all of the timelines in existence except No-watch Ben's, Paradox was still able to crosstime-travel, as in his own words, to the beginning version of all ben timelines, which needed to be rebooted for other timelines to diverge from it in the future. But, we already know it shouldn't exist since Vilgax destroyed it. He then Crosstime-travels to Ben 23's timeline, which yet shouldn't be possible, then Gwen 10's, and to Ben 10000's, which is in the future, and then back to Vilgax's version of No Watch Ben's timestream (impossible unless different versions of timestream itself). Proving that destruction or creation of new timelines at one moment in Crosstime doesn't affect the previous or future versions of the multiverse at different a Crosstime. This suggests different versions of the timestream itself.

Source: Ben 10 Omniverse season 6 episode 1-2.

important Quotes:
  • Lemme guess, some kind of Crosstime doomsday threat that only weilders of the Omnitrix can solve? -Ben 10000
  • If Eon notices other Alien heros aiding this ben, he'll realise that we are Crosstime travelling. - Professor paradox
  • Only this timeline will left intact while all other will cease to exist. -Vilgax
  • If vilgax won then all is lost for the multiverse. -paradox
  • we are at the beginning of Ben prime timeline, the trunk of ben Tennyson tree from which all other ben realities diverge. -Paradox
  • There is no longer any tree, vilgax chopped it off. -Paradox (Thanks to @Firestorm808 for giving this quote.)
Another line of FAQ we gotta account:
Aside from direct statements, the easiest way to confirm that the line is comprised of uncountably infinite points/"snapshots" is to show that the development of the timelines is time-like. I.e. typically one would want a statement like the alteration of the timelines being subject to its own flow of time or by saying that special time travel can go to prior versions of the timelines instead of the past.
Click to expand...

We already know this is Crosstime, a superimposing time that orders all of the existence from beginning to end and that traveling back here means going back to the previous version of timelines itself rather than the past of timelines.

malevolent-kitchen-v0-fdqhghpjs51c1.png


Agree: @TheGreatJedi13, @Lord_Farquaad69420, @Boyinluv2002, @Firestorm808, @LuffyRuffy46307, @Hasty12345, @Killerdrone123, @Greenshifter, @Rolgoat, @zeinx, @KingNanaya, @TiltedFN, @ProfectusInfinity, @Quantu, @Accelerated_Evolution, @Viott, @Qawsedf234, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Maverick_Zero_X (possibly low 1-C), @Benimōru,

Disagree: @Georredannea15, @AloseVQ, @Valeska24, @DonkeySlayer06, @Deagonx
 
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Well, I'll answer that later. But basically going from the point of time you are to the beginning of time and creation by time travel does not give you an extra temporal axis in this case @Benimōru had already asked DT about this situation, and DT said it wouldn't provide extra axis (I'm on the phone, so I can't quote)

In order for this to happen, the temporal dimension must change with its own nature without any destruction or creation in itself, and the time point before this change must be reached by time travel in the common timeline.(And this change must continue on a continuum, And this is not the same as Qawsedf illustrates)

But this is not the case in Ben10, the only thing in Ben10 is going from the present, that is, from a point in time, to the beginning of time and creation through time travel. So, yeah, it's not Low1-C.

I feel, Reiner will say, "Agree to disagree."
 
Georredannea15 said:
Well, I'll answer that later. But basically going from the point of time you are to the beginning of time and creation by time travel does not give you an extra temporal axis in this case @Benimōru had already asked DT about this situation, and DT said it wouldn't provide extra axis (I'm on the phone, so I can't quote)

In order for this to happen, the temporal dimension must change with its own nature without any destruction or creation in itself, and the time point before this change must be reached by time travel in the common timeline.(And this change must continue on a continuum, And this is not the same as Qawsedf illustrates)

But this is not the case in Ben10, the only thing in Ben10 is going from the present, that is, from a point in time, to the beginning of time and creation through time travel. So, yeah, it's not Low1-C.

I feel, Reiner will say, "Agree to disagree."
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree, sole reason, I don't get where u are coming from. It's all happening by Crosstime travelling, which is superimposing time that orders all of existence. Each point in Crosstime is it's own timestream as explained in the events of And then there was none. Destroying all timelines or multiverse from Existence won't affects it's past or future versions across timestream/Crosstime which is said to be a continuum in itself by paradox.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Well, I'll answer that later. But basically going from the point of time you are to the beginning of time and creation by time travel does not give you an extra temporal axis in this case @Benimōru had already asked DT about this situation, and DT said it wouldn't provide extra axis (I'm on the phone, so I can't quote)

In order for this to happen, the temporal dimension must change with its own nature without any destruction or creation in itself, and the time point before this change must be reached by time travel in the common timeline.(And this change must continue on a continuum, And this is not the same as Qawsedf illustrates)

But this is not the case in Ben10, the only thing in Ben10 is going from the present, that is, from a point in time, to the beginning of time and creation through time travel. So, yeah, it's not Low1-C.

I feel, Reiner will say, "Agree to disagree."
Click to expand...
I'm looking at the prior staff thread, and I don't see a post from Benimōru or DT about this scenario.

We do have Qaws saying"It's why just time travel isn't enough, the previous timeline needs an independent existence like in my image."
 
Reiner said:
Agree to disagree, sole reason, I don't get where u are coming from. It's all happening by Crosstime travelling, which is superimposing time that orders all of existence. Each point in Crosstime is it's own timestream as explained in the events of And then there was none. Destroying all of timestream or multiverse from Existence won't affects it's past or future versions across timestream which is said to be a continuum in itself by paradox.
Click to expand...
ElBtw you don't have a lot of that, all you have is time travel from a point in time to the beginning of time and creation. In this and the case of Ben10, DT had already responded to Benimoru.

In addition, if this change takes place through destruction or creation, it is counted as an anti-feat in the first place. I'm not in a position to quote it because I'm on the phone right now, I probably can do it tomorrow
 
Firestorm808 said:
I'm looking at the prior staff thread, and I don't see a post from Benimōru or DT about this scenario.

We do have Qaws saying"It's why just time travel isn't enough, the previous timeline needs an independent existence like in my image."
Click to expand...
I don't have the quote, it's on Benimoru, so I've tagged him because I'm not in a position to look for citations right now, I probably can do it tomorrow. Also, DT had said something about it. Anyway, I'll quote it tomorrow, so just keep going.
 
Georredannea15 said:
ElBtw you don't have a lot of that, all you have is time travel from a point in time to the beginning of time and creation. In this and the case of Ben10, DT had already responded to Benimoru.

In addition, if this change takes place through destruction or creation, it is counted as an anti-feat in the first place. I'm not in a position to quote it because I'm on the phone right now, I probably can do it tomorrow
Click to expand...
Bro, idgi, nothing is changed. The events explains each timestream is independent and vilgax continuum exist but it doesn't affect past or future versions of timestream which is under Crosstime continuum. As explained in the FAQ, you need a time like dimension that orders all of timestream itself in a way that destroying one point at it doesn't affects past or future versions of it. Which is there.
 
Reiner said:
Bro, idgi, nothing is changed. The events explains each timestream is independent and vilgax continuum exist but it doesn't affect past or future versions of timestream which is under Crosstime continuum. As explained in the FAQ, you need a time like dimension that orders all of timestream itself in a way that destroying one point at it doesn't affects past or future versions of it. Which is there.
Click to expand...
Like I said, basically all you have is travel from the point of time to the beginning of time, but that's what you say.Like I said, basically all you have is travel from the point of time to the beginning of time, but even if that's the case what you say, Still, the timeline needs to change in itself, without any creation or destruction.

Anyway bro, it's already hard to write from the phone, so as I said "just keep going." I'll already touch on the quotes tomorrow.
 
Georredannea15 said:
No, I remember he quoted it in the Ben10 thread that opened before this or anywhere. Anyway, as I said, keep it up, I'll probably quote them all tomorrow
Click to expand...
We already have FAQ and Qawseds illustration to explain stuff, no need to over complicate things by bringing stuff that is outside of this thread and have been made out of context of the verse, as much these stuff cause misunderstandings, it just derails from the only thing I intend to deal, that is FAQ (as anything else is just open to interpretation or misinterpretation), hence I'm here to not argue about it.
 
Reiner said:
We already have FAQ and Qawseds illustration to explain stuff, no need to over complicate things by bringing stuff that is outside of this thread and have been made out of context of the verse, as much these stuff cause misunderstandings, it just derails from the only thing I intend to deal, that is FAQ (as anything else is just open to interpretation or misinterpretation), hence I'm here to not argue about it.
Click to expand...
So, I would write tomorrow, there are quotes from DT that explain the opposite.

And yeah, "JUST KEEP GOING."
 
Reiner said:
Since I've got 7 days holiday, Cough cough... I'll be just done with what was left.

As we already know, Crosstime is a super imposing time that not just made up of parallel versions of history but also orders all of existence from beginning to the end. This thread is to explain why Crosstime/timestream still qualifies for low 1-C as per current standards.


@Qawsedf234 diagram explaination (in case one is having difficulty in understanding faq quote):
UwxYupJ_d.webp

The above stuff about different versions of the timestream itself was already proven during the event of And Then There Was Ben in which it was shown that Ben and the Omnitrix's intertwined fate was created and connected by a Crosstime-loop. Despite Vilgax destroying all of the timelines in existence except No-watch Ben's, Paradox was still able to crosstime-travel, as in his own words, to the beginning version of all ben timelines, which needed to be rebooted for other timelines to diverge from it in the future. But, we already know it shouldn't exist since Vilgax destroyed it. He then Crosstime-travels to Ben 23's timeline, which yet shouldn't be possible, then Gwen 10's, and to Ben 10000's, which is in the future, and then back to Vilgax's version of No Watch Ben's timestream (impossible unless different versions of timestream itself). Proving that destruction or creation of new timelines at one moment in Crosstime doesn't affect the previous or future versions of the multiverse at different a Crosstime. This suggests different versions of the timestream itself.

Source: Ben 10 Omniverse season 6 episode 1-2.

important Quotes:
  • Lemme guess, some kind of Crosstime doomsday threat that only weilders of the Omnitrix can solve? -Ben 10000
  • If Eon notices other Alien heros aiding this ben, he'll realise that we are Crosstime travelling. - Professor paradox
  • Only this timeline will left intact while all other will cease to exist. -Vilgax
  • If vilgax won then all is lost for the multiverse. -paradox
  • we are at the beginning of Ben prime timeline, the trunk of ben Tennyson tree from which all other ben realities diverge. -Paradox
Another line of FAQ we gotta account:


We already know this is Crosstime, a superimposing time that orders all of the existence from beginning to end and that traveling back here means going back to the previous version of timelines itself rather than the past of timelines.
Click to expand...
@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Andytrenom What do you think about this?
 
Reiner said:
Since I've got 7 days holiday, Cough cough... I'll be just done with what was left.

As we already know, Crosstime is a super imposing time that not just made up of parallel versions of history but also orders all of existence from beginning to the end. This thread is to explain why Crosstime/timestream still qualifies for low 1-C as per current standards.


@Qawsedf234 diagram explaination (in case one is having difficulty in understanding faq quote):
UwxYupJ_d.webp

The above stuff about different versions of the timestream itself was already proven during the event of And Then There Was Ben in which it was shown that Ben and the Omnitrix's intertwined fate was created and connected by a Crosstime-loop. Despite Vilgax destroying all of the timelines in existence except No-watch Ben's, Paradox was still able to crosstime-travel, as in his own words, to the beginning version of all ben timelines, which needed to be rebooted for other timelines to diverge from it in the future. But, we already know it shouldn't exist since Vilgax destroyed it. He then Crosstime-travels to Ben 23's timeline, which yet shouldn't be possible, then Gwen 10's, and to Ben 10000's, which is in the future, and then back to Vilgax's version of No Watch Ben's timestream (impossible unless different versions of timestream itself). Proving that destruction or creation of new timelines at one moment in Crosstime doesn't affect the previous or future versions of the multiverse at different a Crosstime. This suggests different versions of the timestream itself.

Source: Ben 10 Omniverse season 6 episode 1-2.

important Quotes:
  • Lemme guess, some kind of Crosstime doomsday threat that only weilders of the Omnitrix can solve? -Ben 10000
  • If Eon notices other Alien heros aiding this ben, he'll realise that we are Crosstime travelling. - Professor paradox
  • Only this timeline will left intact while all other will cease to exist. -Vilgax
  • If vilgax won then all is lost for the multiverse. -paradox
  • we are at the beginning of Ben prime timeline, the trunk of ben Tennyson tree from which all other ben realities diverge. -Paradox
Another line of FAQ we gotta account:


We already know this is Crosstime, a superimposing time that orders all of the existence from beginning to end and that traveling back here means going back to the previous version of timelines itself rather than the past of timelines.
Click to expand...
@Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura What do you think about this?
 
Reiner said:
Since I've got 7 days holiday, Cough cough... I'll be just done with what was left.

As we already know, Crosstime is a super imposing time that not just made up of parallel versions of history but also orders all of existence from beginning to the end. This thread is to explain why Crosstime/timestream still qualifies for low 1-C as per current standards.


@Qawsedf234 diagram explaination (in case one is having difficulty in understanding faq quote):
UwxYupJ_d.webp

The above stuff about different versions of the timestream itself was already proven during the event of And Then There Was Ben in which it was shown that Ben and the Omnitrix's intertwined fate was created and connected by a Crosstime-loop. Despite Vilgax destroying all of the timelines in existence except No-watch Ben's, Paradox was still able to crosstime-travel, as in his own words, to the beginning version of all ben timelines, which needed to be rebooted for other timelines to diverge from it in the future. But, we already know it shouldn't exist since Vilgax destroyed it. He then Crosstime-travels to Ben 23's timeline, which yet shouldn't be possible, then Gwen 10's, and to Ben 10000's, which is in the future, and then back to Vilgax's version of No Watch Ben's timestream (impossible unless different versions of timestream itself). Proving that destruction or creation of new timelines at one moment in Crosstime doesn't affect the previous or future versions of the multiverse at different a Crosstime. This suggests different versions of the timestream itself.

Source: Ben 10 Omniverse season 6 episode 1-2.

important Quotes:
  • Lemme guess, some kind of Crosstime doomsday threat that only weilders of the Omnitrix can solve? -Ben 10000
  • If Eon notices other Alien heros aiding this ben, he'll realise that we are Crosstime travelling. - Professor paradox
  • Only this timeline will left intact while all other will cease to exist. -Vilgax
  • If vilgax won then all is lost for the multiverse. -paradox
  • we are at the beginning of Ben prime timeline, the trunk of ben Tennyson tree from which all other ben realities diverge. -Paradox
Another line of FAQ we gotta account:


We already know this is Crosstime, a superimposing time that orders all of the existence from beginning to end and that traveling back here means going back to the previous version of timelines itself rather than the past of timelines.
Click to expand...
@Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 What do you think about this?
 
Reiner said:
Since I've got 7 days holiday, Cough cough... I'll be just done with what was left.

As we already know, Crosstime is a super imposing time that not just made up of parallel versions of history but also orders all of existence from beginning to the end. This thread is to explain why Crosstime/timestream still qualifies for low 1-C as per current standards.


@Qawsedf234 diagram explaination (in case one is having difficulty in understanding faq quote):
UwxYupJ_d.webp

The above stuff about different versions of the timestream itself was already proven during the event of And Then There Was Ben in which it was shown that Ben and the Omnitrix's intertwined fate was created and connected by a Crosstime-loop. Despite Vilgax destroying all of the timelines in existence except No-watch Ben's, Paradox was still able to crosstime-travel, as in his own words, to the beginning version of all ben timelines, which needed to be rebooted for other timelines to diverge from it in the future. But, we already know it shouldn't exist since Vilgax destroyed it. He then Crosstime-travels to Ben 23's timeline, which yet shouldn't be possible, then Gwen 10's, and to Ben 10000's, which is in the future, and then back to Vilgax's version of No Watch Ben's timestream (impossible unless different versions of timestream itself). Proving that destruction or creation of new timelines at one moment in Crosstime doesn't affect the previous or future versions of the multiverse at different a Crosstime. This suggests different versions of the timestream itself.

Source: Ben 10 Omniverse season 6 episode 1-2.

important Quotes:
  • Lemme guess, some kind of Crosstime doomsday threat that only weilders of the Omnitrix can solve? -Ben 10000
  • If Eon notices other Alien heros aiding this ben, he'll realise that we are Crosstime travelling. - Professor paradox
  • Only this timeline will left intact while all other will cease to exist. -Vilgax
  • If vilgax won then all is lost for the multiverse. -paradox
  • we are at the beginning of Ben prime timeline, the trunk of ben Tennyson tree from which all other ben realities diverge. -Paradox
Another line of FAQ we gotta account:


We already know this is Crosstime, a superimposing time that orders all of the existence from beginning to end and that traveling back here means going back to the previous version of timelines itself rather than the past of timelines.
Click to expand...
@Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 What do you think about this?
 
Reiner said:
Since I've got 7 days holiday, Cough cough... I'll be just done with what was left.

As we already know, Crosstime is a super imposing time that not just made up of parallel versions of history but also orders all of existence from beginning to the end. This thread is to explain why Crosstime/timestream still qualifies for low 1-C as per current standards.


@Qawsedf234 diagram explaination (in case one is having difficulty in understanding faq quote):
UwxYupJ_d.webp

The above stuff about different versions of the timestream itself was already proven during the event of And Then There Was Ben in which it was shown that Ben and the Omnitrix's intertwined fate was created and connected by a Crosstime-loop. Despite Vilgax destroying all of the timelines in existence except No-watch Ben's, Paradox was still able to crosstime-travel, as in his own words, to the beginning version of all ben timelines, which needed to be rebooted for other timelines to diverge from it in the future. But, we already know it shouldn't exist since Vilgax destroyed it. He then Crosstime-travels to Ben 23's timeline, which yet shouldn't be possible, then Gwen 10's, and to Ben 10000's, which is in the future, and then back to Vilgax's version of No Watch Ben's timestream (impossible unless different versions of timestream itself). Proving that destruction or creation of new timelines at one moment in Crosstime doesn't affect the previous or future versions of the multiverse at different a Crosstime. This suggests different versions of the timestream itself.

Source: Ben 10 Omniverse season 6 episode 1-2.

important Quotes:
  • Lemme guess, some kind of Crosstime doomsday threat that only weilders of the Omnitrix can solve? -Ben 10000
  • If Eon notices other Alien heros aiding this ben, he'll realise that we are Crosstime travelling. - Professor paradox
  • Only this timeline will left intact while all other will cease to exist. -Vilgax
  • If vilgax won then all is lost for the multiverse. -paradox
  • we are at the beginning of Ben prime timeline, the trunk of ben Tennyson tree from which all other ben realities diverge. -Paradox
Another line of FAQ we gotta account:


We already know this is Crosstime, a superimposing time that orders all of the existence from beginning to end and that traveling back here means going back to the previous version of timelines itself rather than the past of timelines.
Click to expand...
@Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @DarkGrath What do you think about this?
 
Benimōru said:
I don't have much time rn. So I will write my own ideas tonight.
Click to expand...
I will be brief about why I disagree.

What happened in the sections cited as sources in the OP has nothing to do with QAW's explanation of the diagram. In fact, this is exactly what is mentioned in that diagram as "doesn't count".

Where Paradox and Ben are going is before the Ben Prime timeline even started, that is, before Ben Prime even had the Omnitrix.

And this is something that I have already asked the DT and received a "no" answer to the question of whether this kind of thing is qualified to be a hypertimeline.

Me: I have a question as I don't fully understand the newly added draft in the FAQ. So, do we accept that going back to the state of a time dimension before it was created is evidence for the existence of a hypertimeline? Since time does not exist in the state before the time dimension was created, does going there through time travel mean a different direction (hypertimeline)? At least that's more or less what I understood from that draft, but I still want to be sure.


DT: If you just mean into the regular past to a void before creation then no.
Click to expand...

Again, what Vilgax destroyed is the Ben Prime timeline and other alternate timelines branching from it. Where Ben and Paradox are going is before the Ben Prime timeline even existed. So they're going to a place that's already unaffected by what the Chronosapien bomb destroyed.
 
Last edited:
Benimōru said:
I will be brief about why I disagree.

What happened in the sections cited as sources in the OP has nothing to do with QAW's explanation of the diagram. In fact, this is exactly what is mentioned in that diagram as "doesn't count".

Where Paradox and Ben are going is before the Ben Prime timeline even started, that is, before Ben Prime even had the Omnitrix.

And this is something that I have already asked the DT and received a "no" answer to the question of whether this kind of thing is qualified to be a hypertimeline.



Again, what Vilgax destroyed is the Ben Prime timeline and other alternate timelines branching from it. Where Ben and Paradox are going is before the Ben Prime timeline even existed. So they're going to a place that's already unaffected by what the Chronosapiens bomb destroyed.
Click to expand...
Uh... Sorry benimōru.. I think you got some stuff mixed up.. what you are saying was point of my previous thread.. in this argument, they never went to before timeline even existed. Infact, what current arguments is indeed only revolves around what Qawsedf said, that is not the past of the timestream but past version of timestream itself.
 
Reiner said:
Uh... Sorry benimōru.. I think you got some stuff mixed up.. what you are saying was point of my previous thread.. in this argument, they never went to before timeline even existed. Infact, what current arguments is indeed only revolves around what Qawsedf said, that is not the past of the timestream but past version of timestream itself.
Click to expand...
I know that what I quoted is not "by itself" a response to the OP. What I stated below the quote is what makes it important.

The place where Ben and Paradox went is not a place that was wiped out by the explosion, as you stated in the OP, but a place that was not affected by that explosion and continues to exist. Which means that traveling there does not require an extra temporal axis.

Even Vilgax says that bomb will only destroy the "Ben Prime" timeline and the timelines branching from it. And Paradox says that where he and Ben traveled is the beginning of the Prime timeline, and we already know that Prime timeline began because Ben reached the Omnitrix. So the fact that they traveled before Ben reached the Omnitrix means that they traveled not to the Prime timeline that was already destroyed, but to a timeline that was before it and was not affected by that explosion.
 
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