Beerus' Range

[Akreious]

So uh, why is Beerus only Universal in Range? Champa and Beerus' combined attacks was going to destroy both their respective Universes- meaning half of that range (1/2 of 2), therefore one of them would have the ability to destroy the entirety of a 4-D Structure (Universal+ Range) at the very least.

Shouldn't the very fact that Beerus + Champa = Low Multiversal Range automatically make them Universal+ as the whole reason that characters can't jump from Low 2-C to 2-C is that the distance between timelines is unquantifiable and Beerus and Champa combined is able to cross that unquantifiable gap?

Unless we're going to say Beerus and Champa when they hit eachother jumps from Universal Range (Purely 3-D) to Low Multiversal (4-D).

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

Doesn't "2 × 1/2" equals to one¿ Don't get me wrong, I am just curious-

 

[Akreious]

Doesn't "2 × 1/2" equals to one¿ Don't get me wrong, I am just curious-

Yeah, 2 Spacetime Structures x 1/2 = 1 Spacetime Structure; Universal+ Range, not "merely" Universal.

 

[ProudLearner]

Would this scale to characters stronger than twice(x2) the power of Beerus?

 

[JackJoyce]

His Hakai has been stated to work across timelines. Universal+ seems correct to me

 

[Akreious]

Would this scale to characters stronger than twice(x2) the power of Beerus?

They should since they're normal Ki for this, not Hakai Energy (As far as we know)

 

[Ionliosite]

I agree that his range should be upgraded to Universal+, it makes no sense to be only universal.

 

[Omegas03]

Would this scale todo all DBS Low 2-Cs?

 

[Akreious]

Would this scale todo all DBS Low 2-Cs?

Depends on how you look at it.

Since that since Jiren is stronger than Infinite Zamasu and was threatening to at least some of the GoDs, he'd be comparable at least somewhat, which 1st UI Goku would scale to.

Plus I don't think you can upgrade from merely Universal Range to Universal+ with sheer strength. It's a difference of pure 3D to 4D; with 4D being the more consistent of the 2 due to them already possessing Low 2-C strength.

At the very least, those who are near or at GoD level should have Universal+ range, period.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you mean Low Multiversal Range.

 

[Akreious]

If we were to say that since the distance between 2 timelines is massively unquantifiable/probably more than 2 then yeah pretty much every GoD Level person should be Low Multiversal.

 

[Antvasima]

We preferably need more staff input before we can apply that though.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I agree with the idea that anyone scaling to Champa-level should have Low Multiversal range. It doesn't really make sense for Beerus and Champa to destroy Universe 6 and 7 with their combined strength if they lacked the range to do so

 

[Antvasima]

I personally agree, but you should politely ask other staff members listed in the Knowledgeable Members List and the Dragon Ball verse page to help out here.

 

[Omegas03]

I agree with the idea that anyone scaling to Champa-level should have Low Multiversal range. It doesn't really make sense for Beerus and Champa to destroy Universe 6 and 7 with their combined strength if they lacked the range to do so

I thought everyone barring Infinite Zamasu backscaled from that feat. I doubt SSJ2 Kefla would be considered unquantifiably/infinitely weaker than Beerus.

Otherwise UIO3 and MUI Goku, both Jiren keys, Broly, Gogeta and the rest of the GoDs should scale.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Perhaps, but we should start with concluding whether Champa-levels have Low Multiversal range or not.

 

[Antvasima]

We cannot assume that all Low 2-C or 3-A characters have Low Multiversal range. The Gods of Destruction apparently do though.

 

[Akreious]

The GoD level characters should be Low Multiversal given Champa + Beerus having a shared 2-C feat, yes.

Why can't we scale people to Infinite Zamasu's range? Jiren is simply stronger than Infinite Zamasu, who's fused with the literal timeline.

Jiren > Being who's literally a timeline.

Should that not imply that Jiren has the range to destroy said timeline? Jiren is the most formidable opponent Goku's ever faced, not Infinite Zamasu. If Goku as a Low 2-C is unable to defeat Zamasu due to range, how in the world is Jiren more formidable? It's a different of Nigh Impossible (Jiren) against Literally Impossible (Zamasu).

 

[Antvasima]

Raw power does not necessarily mean superior range, but I suppose that you have a point.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Generally speaking, all physical stats are tied into power in Dragon Ball, barring some modifiers such as Dyspo's Light Bullet, Frieza's Endurance and Burter presumably being faster than his power would indicate. I believe range should also scale with raw power based on how power has been depicted in DB prior, but this may be a matter of some debate.

Has anyone contacted the knowledgeable members yet?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that the "At least Low 2-C" characters can have "Low Multiversal" range, but not the ones with lesser AP.

 

[Akreious]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask other staff members who support or are neutral about Dragon Ball to comment here: Dragon Ball

 

[Ionliosite]

Now that High 3-A range has been debunked, we need this done.

Those who scale to IZ should likely get Universal+ range because of how in DB more power = more everything, with a few outliers.

Beerus and Champa need Low Multiversal range since that's the only way they could perform the 2-C feat, so only those who scale to them and above would have Low Multiversal range.

 

[Akreious]

I contacted a few staff members on their message wall about this thread.

 

[Theglassman12]

Wouldn't this just apply to the manga counterparts? Cause I don't recall there being a scene in the anime that shows Beerus and Champa being able to do that.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Several staff members are currently discussing the validity of Beerus and Champa's clash; like the idea of being massively above baseline Low 2-C by requiring have the power needed to cross the "5-D barrier" required to reach a 2-C feat. Agreed that the High Universal range feat is unusable, but I honestly think it might be best for the staff discussion regarding the GoD's and Angels to go over before making more changes.

 

[Ionliosite]

Wouldn't this just apply to the manga counterparts? Cause I don't recall there being a scene in the anime that shows Beerus and Champa being able to do that.

I mean, they never destroyed 2 universes, that's the reason teh upgrade was so controversial.

 

[Akreious]

Several staff members are currently discussing the validity of Beerus and Champa's clash; like the idea of being massively above baseline Low 2-C by requiring have the power needed to cross the "5-D barrier" required to reach a 2-C feat. Agreed that the High Universal range feat is unusable, but I honestly think it might be best for the staff discussion regarding the GoD's and Angels to go over before making more changes.

I don't think the actual AP matters in this scenario since this thread is specifically only referring to the Range required to do any beyond 1 Timeline/Universe.

Literally even if a single atom in Champa's Universe is shaken, it should count as Low Multiversal Range since the only specifics given to qualify for Low Multiversal is "Attacks are able to reach anywhere between two to a thousand 4-dimensional space-time continuums." which two was definitely at least reached.

 

[Theglassman12]

Wouldn't this just apply to the manga counterparts? Cause I don't recall there being a scene in the anime that shows Beerus and Champa being able to do that.

I mean, they never destroyed 2 universes, that's the reason teh upgrade was so controversial.

That's not really the point I was making. I'm saying, even if this goes through, this should likely only scale to the manga counterparts unless there's a scene that replicates the flashback of Beerus and Champa nearly nuking their universes in the anime considering how much the manga differs from the anime.

 

[Akreious]

I mean, this sounds like pretty much the same feat as in the Manga.

As for them jumping Universes after they destroy one Universe, that isn't possible since so far we've only seen Angels travel Universes like that and we have little reason to believe Destroyers can, therefore we can pretty much only assume they will do it from the current universe they're in.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

If Beerus and Goku fist bumping is a 3-A feat due to them threatening to destroy Universe 7, so then why isn't Beerus and Champa fist bumping isn't a 2-C feat due to them threatening to destroy both Universe 6 and Universe 7?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Beerus was holding back severly during that fight, and Goku was still in the middle of growing stronger. Plus over time, Goku was still strong enough to both repel a blast powerful enough to oneshot the material universe and also able to perform his own material universe busting attack.

Furthermore, there are still doubts about Universe 6 and 7 being different timelines given all the 12 universes are structured more like a quilted multiverse are contained into each timeline. This is being discussed by other staff members. Infinite Zamasu is still a Low 2-C feat and everyone stronger than him would still scale.

 

[Akreious]

So everybody agrees that every Low 2-C should at least be Universal+ in range until staff finally decides on the Beerus/Champa clash?

(Also wasn't the idea that Smaller Space-Times can be encompassed by larger Space-Times a sort of accepted thing?)

 

[Ionliosite]

Furthermore, there are still doubts about Universe 6 and 7 being different timelines given all the 12 universes are structured more like a quilted multiverse are contained into each timeline.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what do you mean by this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Some stuff Sera and Ultima Reality have been talking about.

 

[Ionliosite]

Not what I asked...

I mean, what do you mean by "all the 12 universes are structured more like a quilted multiverse are contained into each timeline"?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

All 12 universes being in 1 timeline leads people to believe the universes are only 3 dimensional.

 

[Ionliosite]

I don't even get how that would make it 3D. Shin Megami Tensei also has every multiverse being a single timeline (to the point the whole Amala multiverse is simply "universe" in-verse) and that means jack.

 

[Antvasima]

I am inclined to agree with Ionliosite regarding the universes.