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She is 2-A, though.
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BB vs Avatar of Calamity
- Thread starter Homu_Sweet_Homu
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- #83
@Repp Never said it kills a 2-A, I said it works on 2-A. But of course, anything below that would be dead.
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Oh **** no....
Please don't get Astolfo vs 2B'd.
Please don't get Astolfo vs 2B'd.
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How is one ability makes a fight stomp? Also, I used AoC 7-B version in this fight.
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2-A ability is nothing compared to 1-B (now High 1-B) power null.
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@Kal, I mean, it kinda does. Controlling the thing that souls are made of means she could do a lot of stuff to counter soul drain. Seeing as her soul is made of spiritron particles or whatever, she could just replenish her own soul by bringing more spiritron particles into being to make up for whatever is being drained.
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@Monarch but can she do that after her soul has been taken? Because it only took a moment for Kyoko's to be completely drained.
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Didn't BB survive inside Kiara's womb for some time before dying? I forgot.
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@SD, if it takes a few moments, that's a few moments for BB to start fixing up her soul.
And does the AoC have range that spans space-time? Because if she doesn't, passively absorbing BB's soul won't actually work, seeing as she doesn't have the range to reach something spread across all of space-time.
And does the AoC have range that spans space-time? Because if she doesn't, passively absorbing BB's soul won't actually work, seeing as she doesn't have the range to reach something spread across all of space-time.
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That moment I mentioned was Kyoko getting grabbed, she was gone the moment that happened, given that AoC would be closer, the presence alone should do that, removing that moment.
BB's soul is spread across time-space? If its even remotely connected to BB, it should still take it.
BB's soul is spread across time-space? If its even remotely connected to BB, it should still take it.
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@SD How could it take it though? It doesn't have the range to absorb BB's soul, especially not all at once. It's like saying an ant could destroy a entire mountain just because it could reach the mountain's surface.
@Kal, spiritual omnipresence like BB's isn't removed. And the AoC's drain has never worked on Madoka, and honestly, I highly disagree with giving it Homura's abilities from Rebellion when Homura had just undergone changes into some kind of witch fetus thanks to the isolation zone, and would logically have gained new powers.
@Kal, spiritual omnipresence like BB's isn't removed. And the AoC's drain has never worked on Madoka, and honestly, I highly disagree with giving it Homura's abilities from Rebellion when Homura had just undergone changes into some kind of witch fetus thanks to the isolation zone, and would logically have gained new powers.
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You mean like how AoC absorbed the soul of Kyoko by touching its body, despite having her soul gem away?
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@SD yes, exactly like that except for the bit where the AoC didn't absorb Kyoko's soul from across all of space-time.
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Spiritual omnipresence?
Isolation Zone never gave her any abilities, Wraith Arc did.
Isolation Zone never gave her any abilities, Wraith Arc did.
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1) AoC has it because Homura in base has it. She hasn't got a new form, she never mentioned drain when she did obtained one. She specifically said "my new power is memory manipulation". No mention of power drain (she also haxed Madoka in base and Rebellion Homura is pretty obviously MG Homura and not CMG Homura)
2) It is affected. Otherwise you have to fight infinite BBs because omnipresence and it's obvious that you can't deal with all of them at once if you aren't omnipresent, because it does work as a speed thing
We had a whole thread about that.
2) It is affected. Otherwise you have to fight infinite BBs because omnipresence and it's obvious that you can't deal with all of them at once if you aren't omnipresent, because it does work as a speed thing
We had a whole thread about that.
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BB's soul and consciousness are omnipresent across space-time, while her physical body is not.
Did Homura ever show power drain before the end of Rebellion?
Did Homura ever show power drain before the end of Rebellion?
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That thread disagrees with you.
No? But Rebellion doesn't give Homura any abilities or changes (until the devil thing), its pretty explicit she becomes normal (About to die, but normal) after the main Isolation Zone event.
No? But Rebellion doesn't give Homura any abilities or changes (until the devil thing), its pretty explicit she becomes normal (About to die, but normal) after the main Isolation Zone event.
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@Kal Yes, because having infinite BBs is unfair while the AoC creating a billion wraith duplicates of you is totally fair. Sure there's a difference of infinity, but what does that really matter after a certain number of copies are created? A billion copies are going to stomp as easily as an infinite number of them. If you're going to go down that line of argument here, it has a biased premise.
And BB does have magic resistance by the way. And it's legit resistance, unlike the magical girl's resistances which from what I've seen boils down to "fights people with magic, thus resistant to magic". She straight up negates anything below a certain level, and massively reduces the effectiveness of anything powerful enough to get past.
She also has EX luck, which works to alter fate and causality in order to allow her to survive unsurvivable odds. And it's not affecting the AoC, it's affecting BB, so the AoC's acausality is irrelevant. Speaking of which, where does the AoC's acausality come from? Is that just because it copied Homura, who still has her memories of the past timeline?
Combine those last two points, and I think she'll be surviving any passive drain long enough to rewrite the laws and concepts of the world and/or pull out the imaginary spitron trap and/or use CCC
And BB does have magic resistance by the way. And it's legit resistance, unlike the magical girl's resistances which from what I've seen boils down to "fights people with magic, thus resistant to magic". She straight up negates anything below a certain level, and massively reduces the effectiveness of anything powerful enough to get past.
She also has EX luck, which works to alter fate and causality in order to allow her to survive unsurvivable odds. And it's not affecting the AoC, it's affecting BB, so the AoC's acausality is irrelevant. Speaking of which, where does the AoC's acausality come from? Is that just because it copied Homura, who still has her memories of the past timeline?
Combine those last two points, and I think she'll be surviving any passive drain long enough to rewrite the laws and concepts of the world and/or pull out the imaginary spitron trap and/or use CCC
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>Comparing infinite to one Falsling, (I think you meant billions with the same abilities, which even then, is a gross exaggeration.)
Ah you think the magical girl's resistance isn't legit then? Go ahead make a thread, lets see if your massive strawman is accurate.
It's passive right? AoC's acausality actually comes from Homura's shield, which neged the universe being restarted's affects on Kyubey. But yeah, it should come from Homura too.
Ah you think the magical girl's resistance isn't legit then? Go ahead make a thread, lets see if your massive strawman is accurate.
It's passive right? AoC's acausality actually comes from Homura's shield, which neged the universe being restarted's affects on Kyubey. But yeah, it should come from Homura too.
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As I said. A billion clones of AoC are going to kill somone as easily as an infinite number of BB clones. So arguing that omnipresence isn't fair because it means you need to fight infinite BBs when AoC making a billion duplicates is fair, is flawed.
All the explanations that I have seen on the Magical Girls having magic resistance is what I said. If I am incorrect, please explain it.
EX luck is passive, yes.
All the explanations that I have seen on the Magical Girls having magic resistance is what I said. If I am incorrect, please explain it.
EX luck is passive, yes.
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You seriously comparing infinite to a finite number? And its not "billions" its unknown for the most part, just at least enough to cover a block, likely more.
There is literally no explanation like that here. And their resistance comes from H.N. Elly reality warping Madoka (pre-Magical Girl) but Sayaka not even being slightly affected, and probably some other reasons, back when we added the resistance a long time ago.
Hmmm, even literally 0% chance?
There is literally no explanation like that here. And their resistance comes from H.N. Elly reality warping Madoka (pre-Magical Girl) but Sayaka not even being slightly affected, and probably some other reasons, back when we added the resistance a long time ago.
Hmmm, even literally 0% chance?
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I'm not comparing infinite and finite numbers. I'm comparing "enough duplicates to easily stomp" with "enough duplicates to easily stomp", and questioning why AoC's is apparently ok when BB's is not.
Ok. I stand corrected then. In any case, my original point was not to remove magical girl resistance ot magic, but that BB's magic resist would be enough to massively reduce or even negate AoC's drain.
Yes, even literally 0% chance. See Saber vs Gae Bolg. She dodges a weapon that is conceptual cursed to always strike the heart in addition to reversing causality to guarantee the spear will strike the heart. Saber's B rank Luck combined with her instincts let her avoid the 100% guaranteed hit to her heart and it only hit her arm instead. And that was with only B rank luck, i.e. above average. BB has EX rank luck, meaning it's so ridiculously high that it breaks the measuring scale.
Ok. I stand corrected then. In any case, my original point was not to remove magical girl resistance ot magic, but that BB's magic resist would be enough to massively reduce or even negate AoC's drain.
Yes, even literally 0% chance. See Saber vs Gae Bolg. She dodges a weapon that is conceptual cursed to always strike the heart in addition to reversing causality to guarantee the spear will strike the heart. Saber's B rank Luck combined with her instincts let her avoid the 100% guaranteed hit to her heart and it only hit her arm instead. And that was with only B rank luck, i.e. above average. BB has EX rank luck, meaning it's so ridiculously high that it breaks the measuring scale.
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Don't understand about this part. Please elaborate it again.
Negating/resisting 2-A hax? Something that infinitely more potent that everything she ever faced? Definitely doubt it. Drains even works on a soulless being like Madoka. Doubt her magic resistance is not going to help when someone who has outright immunity fail to resist it.
Problem is, passive drains works by AoC doing nothing. And AFAIK, Gae Bolg can be stopped by shileds that can overwhelmed its magical energy. So, there is actually a chance to counter Gae Bolg. I think I have heard someone saying GB can be dodge by jumping back just before Cu throw it, but not sure about that.
Negating/resisting 2-A hax? Something that infinitely more potent that everything she ever faced? Definitely doubt it. Drains even works on a soulless being like Madoka. Doubt her magic resistance is not going to help when someone who has outright immunity fail to resist it.
Problem is, passive drains works by AoC doing nothing. And AFAIK, Gae Bolg can be stopped by shileds that can overwhelmed its magical energy. So, there is actually a chance to counter Gae Bolg. I think I have heard someone saying GB can be dodge by jumping back just before Cu throw it, but not sure about that.
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Because one is a speed stat and the other one isn't? And I'm not even arguing AoC wins via that
And what is the level of magic they resist? Because AoC's curses originate from UKG.
Didn't you say it works on the user? Not the object or person against the user? Because your example shows it working on the blade instead. Also, looking at other threads, why isn't it brought up?
And what is the level of magic they resist? Because AoC's curses originate from UKG.
Didn't you say it works on the user? Not the object or person against the user? Because your example shows it working on the blade instead. Also, looking at other threads, why isn't it brought up?
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@Homu
Ok two things. 1) I was talking about the passive ranged drain, which is NOT Homura's contact drain of Madoka, and is far weaker, and 2) You have no idea what parts of Madoka got drained and what didn't, so do not say Homura drained the soul of a soulless being. The only thing that is clear that got drained is her power. Her memories were removed, not drained.
You are mixing up the two applications of Lancer's Gae Bolg, which are the Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death (BStPwD) and the Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death (SStSwD). SStSwD is the one that can be blocked with shields that overwhelm its magical energy, because it's just Lancer putting all his power in the spear and throwing it (though it is still conceptually cursed to never miss). BStPwD is the one that reverses causality to make there a 100% chance of it striking the heart, bypassing durability and shields, that Saber still dodged. As for "jumping back" I think someone was stating that it could be dodged by getting out of its range in a rather downplaying tone. Which isn't quite true either. If you are out of its range, it can't be used against you, but if you are in its range, it's still going to hit you 100% when it's used.
Kal was stating that letting BB have her omnipresence was unfair because it means you need to fight all the infinite BBs of space-time at once. I was countering with why are we saying that BB using "enough clones to stomp" from her omnipresence is unfair, when the AoC turning all the Wraiths in the world into exact clones of itself, which is also "enough clones to stomp", is somehow ok.Kaltias said:
Ok two things. 1) I was talking about the passive ranged drain, which is NOT Homura's contact drain of Madoka, and is far weaker, and 2) You have no idea what parts of Madoka got drained and what didn't, so do not say Homura drained the soul of a soulless being. The only thing that is clear that got drained is her power. Her memories were removed, not drained.
You are mixing up the two applications of Lancer's Gae Bolg, which are the Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death (BStPwD) and the Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death (SStSwD). SStSwD is the one that can be blocked with shields that overwhelm its magical energy, because it's just Lancer putting all his power in the spear and throwing it (though it is still conceptually cursed to never miss). BStPwD is the one that reverses causality to make there a 100% chance of it striking the heart, bypassing durability and shields, that Saber still dodged. As for "jumping back" I think someone was stating that it could be dodged by getting out of its range in a rather downplaying tone. Which isn't quite true either. If you are out of its range, it can't be used against you, but if you are in its range, it's still going to hit you 100% when it's used.
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We don't get rid of abilities that naturally come from speed, like Flash's infinite mass punch. Why are we taking away abilities that natually come from BB's omnipresence, which as you say, is a speed stat?SomebodyData said:
Also I was talking to Kal on this point. I know you weren't arguing that.
And what is the level of magic they resist? Because AoC's curses originate from UKG.
Oh so now it has 2-A curses does it? Then why is this thing not 2-A to start?
Didn't you say it works on the user? Not the object or person against the user? Because your example shows it working on the blade instead. Also, looking at other threads, why isn't it brought up?
The blade? You mean the spear? Causality/fate was altered so that Saber could dodge, not so that the spear could miss. And it isn't brought up because either BB has all her other hax to give her the win anyway, or people forget about it.
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Oh, referring to Kal? Ok
Note how I said originate, never that it had the full scope of UKG's curses.
Rethink that for a sec, the weapon is the thing that is conceptually obligated, not the user. Ie her luck is manipulating the chances of the enemy. Also from what I see on the page, BB needs to rewrite her luck first doesn't she?
Note how I said originate, never that it had the full scope of UKG's curses.
Rethink that for a sec, the weapon is the thing that is conceptually obligated, not the user. Ie her luck is manipulating the chances of the enemy. Also from what I see on the page, BB needs to rewrite her luck first doesn't she?
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What is the scope then? Because BB has B rank magic resistance, meaing that even High Rituals and Greater Magic are difficult to affect her with. And lets remember she doesn't need to ignore the drain, she just needs to survive it for the few seconds necessary to start altering her own soul. Or travel back in time to tell her past self "write a physical/magical law saying no AoC"
Saber was the one to dodge the weapon, based on her instincts and luck. Her luck did not directly affect the weapon, it affected her by making her lucky enough to dodge. And no, BB does not need to rewrite her luck. Her luck is already EX, she made it EX by sheer hard work even before gaining control over the moon cell. You're probably thinking of her ability to rewrite systems of causality and probability.
Saber was the one to dodge the weapon, based on her instincts and luck. Her luck did not directly affect the weapon, it affected her by making her lucky enough to dodge. And no, BB does not need to rewrite her luck. Her luck is already EX, she made it EX by sheer hard work even before gaining control over the moon cell. You're probably thinking of her ability to rewrite systems of causality and probability.
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