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Bayonetta Discussion Thread

Unfortunately Bayonetta might not get any tier alterations with this next thread. Idk, I have to find something for her
 
Bayo probably won't be scaling to the top tiers. Like, ever. It's pretty hard to not call the Aesir fight an outlier considering she was only barely holding her own against Loptr previously and then somehow managed to beat and harm him after he just got the strongest power up in the series.
 
Yeah, but atleast the verse will possibly be very strong due to the god tiers. Maybe something will happen in Bayonetta 3, I dunno.
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Bayo probably won't be scaling to the top tiers. Like, ever. It's pretty hard to not call the Aesir fight an outlier considering she was only barely holding her own against Loptr previously and then somehow managed to beat and harm him after he just got the strongest power up in the series.
Click to expand...
It's really not that hard to argue actually, ive got a whole argument systematically debunking stuff that claim she.doesnt scale
 
However I don’t take Bayonetta losing to Loptr too harshly, he is essentially just Aesir, and in most instances she loses just to progress the plot:

Miss “Busts a meteor open, but gets flung to the ground by a piece of a building” Bayonetta

(crazy how those things happened in the same fight)
 
Comicgyal said:
However I don’t take Bayonetta losing to Loptr too harshly, he is essentially just Aesir, and in most instances she loses just to progress the plot:

Miss “Busts a meteor open, but gets flung to the ground by a piece of a building” Bayonetta

(crazy how those things happened in the same fight)
Click to expand...
She's still on his level regardless. I didn't even say she lost, I just said she barely keeps up. She downscales from loptr at worst, is equal to him at best. Loptr ascending as Aesir is treated as a pretty big deal. It sounds quite ridiculous to just say "he's essentially just Aesir." Dumb fiction mechanics and interactions don't invalidate their encounters either.
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
She's still on his level regardless. I didn't even say she lost, I just said she barely keeps up. She downscales from loptr at worst, is equal to him at best. Loptr ascending as Aesir is treated as a pretty big deal. It sounds quite ridiculous to just say "he's essentially just Aesir." Dumb fiction mechanics and interactions don't invalidate their encounters either.
Click to expand...
It doesnt help that Loptr never actually beat her outright, he always had to rely on abusing the weaknesses of the Eyes to be able to beat her
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
She's still on his level regardless. I didn't even say she lost, I just said she barely keeps up. She downscales from loptr at worst, is equal to him at best. Loptr ascending as Aesir is treated as a pretty big deal. It sounds quite ridiculous to just say "he's essentially just Aesir." Dumb fiction mechanics and interactions don't invalidate their encounters either.
Click to expand...
I know you didn’t say that, it’s just how others take it. The form “Loptr” is the same form as Aesir, but not full powered Aesir. Which is why I’m saying her losing/being beat can make sense, he’s essentially a god tier on the level of Queen Sheba and Jubileus even without the eyes, since he has to keep the balance.

since that young child Loptr, is just Aesir assuming Loki’s form in order to trick Bayonetta.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
It doesnt help that Loptr never actually beat her outright, he always had to rely on abusing the weaknesses of the Eyes to be able to beat her
Click to expand...
Nor has Bayo ever beaten loptr herself to prove that she'd scale on a different level then her. Just the fact that he was able to casually put her in a chokehold and shoot her down is enough to say that they're on the same level.
Comicgyal said:
I know you didn’t say that, it’s just how others take it. The form “Loptr” is the same form as Aesir, but not full powered Aesir. Which is why I’m saying her losing/being beat can make sense, he’s essentially a god tier on the level of Queen Sheba and Jubileus even without the eyes, since he has to keep the balance.
Click to expand...
Loki's existence upholds that balance. The parts of Aesir are all still there, so there is no imbalance. Saying that Loptr is straight up = to Aesir contradicts all context the series possibly has to offer. Loptr before becoming Aesir is not on the level of Sheba and Jubileus because he's not the lone person who has to keep the balance in hold. All the primary components of Aesir still exist in the world of chaos, just spread out. Humanity had the eyes, and loptr and loki had the soverign and prophetic powers respectively. Loptr is not the lone person keeping the balance, so he shouldn't at all scale to the normal gods.
Comicgyal said:
since that young child Loptr, is just Aesir assuming Loki’s form in order to trick Bayonetta.
Click to expand...
Loptr isn't assuming assuming anyone's form. They're literally the same being, just split. They look the exact same physically. Loki transported himself to the future to flee Loptr, and loptr just waited him out and aged into an adult.
 
Loki’s existence isn’t said to hold the same balance as Aesir, especially seeing as how willing Aesir was to kill him. But then again who knows, could be another inconsistency. Aesir was not going to ruin the balance like Balder wanted to, he just wanted his original power back.


Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Nor has Bayo ever beaten loptr herself to prove that she'd scale on a different level then her. Just the fact that he was able to casually put her in a chokehold and shoot her down is enough to say that they're on the same level.

Loki's existence upholds that balance. The parts of Aesir are all still there, so there is no imbalance. Saying that Loptr is straight up = to Aesir contradicts all context the series possibly has to offer.

Loptr isn't assuming assuming anyone's form. They're literally the same being, just split. They look the exact same physically. Loki transported himself to the future to flee Loptr, and loptr just waited him out and aged into an adult.
Click to expand...
The Loptr that came and fought Bayonetta on the falling clock tower, that was Aesir taking the form of Loki. Loptr = Prophet which is the same form as Aesir until he gets both eyes, he can shapeshift after all
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Nor has Bayo ever beaten loptr herself to prove that she'd scale on a different level then her. Just the fact that he was able to casually put her in a chokehold and shoot her down is enough to say that they're on the same level.
Click to expand...
Except th only rason h was vn abl to do so was bcaus h was forcibly activating th Lft Eye which as shown in th first game knocks hr out
 
Comicgyal said:
Loki’s existence isn’t said to hold the same balance as Aesir, especially seeing as how willing Aesir was to kill him. But then again who knows, could be another inconsistency. Aesir was not going to ruin the balance like Balder wanted to, he just wanted his original power back.
Click to expand...
If loptr believed that he could be dead, it was likely because the sovereign power still remained in his body.
Comicgyal said:
The Loptr that came and fought Bayonetta on the falling clock tower, that was Aesir taking the form of Loki. Loptr = Prophet which is the same form as Aesir until he gets both eyes, he can shapeshift after all
Click to expand...
Loptr/Prophet =/= Aesir actually. These are Loptr's own words. Loki and Loptr were once just straight up Aesir and ruler of the chaos realm. Then they split into two separate entities. Loptr needed both Loki's power and the eyes to become Aesir.

Loptr is not "just Aesir," he's half of him with only part of his power.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Except th only rason h was vn abl to do so was bcaus h was forcibly activating th Lft Eye which as shown in th first game knocks hr out
Click to expand...
He caught her in a chokehold without doing anything to the eye actually. It's only the eye that knocked her out. He still restrained and blasted down Bayo without doing anything to the eye.
 
If you're referring to "Aesir" as full powered then yeah, he would need the eyes + Lokis power. However I'm classifying "Aesir" and full power as two different people, since he didn't need Lokis power in order to keep the balance. He needed Lokis sovereign power to control the eyes of the world. My main point was that the Loptr Bayonetta fights, is essentially a god tier type enemy, which is why it's understandable. That's all I was trying to say.
 
Whether you think Loki's Sovereign power is needed for balance or not, Loptr couldn't be on Sheba and Full Jubileus' level because its ridiculous to pin him as the sole person holding up balance. If anything it was the EYES that was doing that, since the whole reason the balance was thrown off to begin with was because the Right eye of the present era was lost. If anything, you could argue that Loptr has the LEAST to do with Aesir's divided power since he's essentially a self-described shell of Aesir who had to fuel up on evil emotions to have any notable strength.
 
(Tmw kamiya wants dante to be in bayo 3, so if we get upgraded, dante would probably scale to whatever it is) But that doesn’t matter, focusing back on irenic

Muspelheim is an infinite world inside of Paradiso, and the games established that Alfheim and Muspelheim are apart of Paradiso. Due to Muspelheim being a primordial world, and Irenic existing before history, it’s very plausible to assume that Irenic has traveled through it before.
 
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