Battle for the 2nd strongest Low 6-B

[Firephoenixearl]

@Paul

Uhm, Void energy IIRC was described to drive people into madness or sth like that, imma read up on it a bit, but when was the neural sentry explained?

Umbra's thoughts and movement are still controlled by the operator which is why he lets lose only after the void avatar is out.

There is also the fact that Rell was going insane from the power of TMiTW and that's RELL, an operator who have already been exposed to the void and tanked it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Mind Hax works but it's facing an Avatar, It will mind hax but then what?. In order to mind hax it's true form, you would half to go back in time.

So you're saying that unless you go back in time there are no ways to kill the the true form? Like literally no ways.

Also @Paul, he can always use specters to do the banishing work for him while he just enjoys his tea to have a win condition.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Rell is a special case I feel.

He was never really alright in the head. Also he had tmitw sealed for an indeterminate time before going insane, and that time was decently long.

Umbra more just surrenders control of its body. Withbumbra it's more of a possession

The Neural Sentry is a defense system set up by the orokin in the void towers. The decivies implanted onto the corrupted allow the Sentry to control them

I mean the specters work yeah but as Griffin said, they have precog so they will know where not to be

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah, but that's the embodiment of void energy we'r talking about and the tenno are FAR more resistant to any mind hax ability than any other thing in the verse. Besides remember that TMiTW can actually override your body for some time (when he speaks to you), so yes void energy does mind hax.

Whether he lets you or not doesn't change the fact that you control Umbra's every move and thought using void energy. Ajimu let Kumagawa hit her all over agai

The Neural Sentry is used yes, but it's still Void Energy that ends up mind haxing them. The Neural Sentry is used to make them slaves instead of mindless zombies (like infested), so that they can control the actions of corrupted enemies.

IIRC even the parents who were exposed to the void became mindless/went insane (i guess that would apply for Madness Manipulation), and started attacking the children even without the neural sentry.

Depends, precog doesn't help them if the only thing they can do is wait to be sniped from a universe away by limbo specters.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Tmitw only gets to speak through you one you have ingested the kuva

You control him through possession using your conciousness

Afaik it is actually just the neural sentry

The parents began to become infested I'm pretty sure

That universe overlaps with the main one literally existing on top of it. Also limbo can't banish someone into the rift while he is inside and they are outside without cataclysm

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not rly, he does that when you first get him inside you (that sounds sexual, but it's not supposed to), then he speaks to you when you drink the kuva as in a warning i doubt the kuva powers him or anything like that. (Doesn't change the fact that he talks to you/overriding your body).

That changes things how?

Hmm gonna have to read up again, but why would they become infested? The ship had a void incident, not an infested one.

"Cannot banish people when inside the rift." Pardon my asking, but are you rly counting nerfs as part of the lore? xD. You know just as well as i do, that was just done as a nerf to Limbo cus he was too broken. I guess nerfs are WoG, technically speaking

 

[Paul_Frank]

The war within is canonically comes before the chains of harrow. The kuva was some sort of gateway for him to get into you it seems

Cause possession isn't mindhax?

Yes I am That's how his power works now so yeah think of it like a retco

 

[Firephoenixearl]

(Doesn't change the fact that he talks to you/overriding your body).

Posession is a form of mindhax. You're still overriding his action and control over his mind and body.

That's cus of a nerf though, not cus that's how his powers work. It's not a retcon, it's literally a nerf cus limbo would be too op, completely game mechanic to balance out the game. (But then there is still his 3rd ability which can help with it's radial banish).

 

[Paul_Frank]

He can only talk to you after you drink the kuva despite being with you the whole time, there is clearly something the kuva does to heighten his power over you

No it's not? He's also willingly letting you control him it's not really overriding anything

DE changed how the power works it's a retcon. Nothing in the lore indicated that he could point banish through the void. Skill 3 could help though, just mark one avatar inside the rift then send it out. The only problem is again precog

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The war within is canonically comes before the chains of harrow.

But, he talks to you during the war within, but he gets TMiTW later? Wut?

Still if i tell you "ok feel free to mind hax me". Does that mean you can do that without having mind hax? No, you still need mindhax, consent or not.

I love how neither of us remember the name so we just call it skill 3 xD There is only so much you can do against an eventual army.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yeah since he is a Gestalt entity associated with the void he is with anyone who has exposure to the void, he couldn't talk to us until we had kuva, and Rell's control finally weakened then once we accept him into our body not in a weird way he can talk to us freely

But possession isn't mindhax that's the thing. The operator is literally given permission to control the body and nothing indicates the mind of umbra is involved. It is literally just saying "yeah you can put your conciousness into my body and control me like a warframe so we can get revenge on ballas and co."

Isn't it like rift surge idk I just press 4 and 2 as limbo anyway I have no clue what the genie can do I just know what Limbo can't do

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No you said in Rell is after The War Within. In the War Within he talks to us. But we only get TMiTW in Rell. So he talks to us before he gets inside our bodies. What?

Considering thought based actions like abilities are involved yes, i'd say the mind is involved.

Don't we all Then waiting for LG here.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yes tww comes first. By the time of tww Rell had started to lose control of tmitw which is why he is able to talk to us after we consume the kuva. Then once we get him into our bodies he can talk more freely

But none of excals abilities are thought based? Slash dash is a movement. Radial blind is a movement. Radial Javelin is a movement. Exalted blade is literally making a blade out of energy.

You should stop the limbo spam and move onto equinox spam so I can say sleep gg

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Oh that's what you meant well obviously, once he gets into our bodies he still mind haxes us so moot point.

Well yes, but then what about senses and other stuff like that which require the participation of the mind? Also the operator literally went inside umbra's mind and talk to him through that as well as see his memories, wdym he has no mind hax? xD

Don't worry, spam The Operator. His profile with 173 categories worth of hax is done...and so am i. Why did i vouche for this?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Well yeah he mindhaxes us kinda, but only after we take the kuva which clearly is connected to him thanks to his voice lines on the matter.

The operator literally controls umbra the same as any other frame. Putting their consciousness into the frame and controlling them. Umbra being biological doesn't really change that fact since all frames are biological in some capacity, they are made with the infestation virus and well, people.

Good but uhh, did you remove immunity to mindhax, time travel, and deconstruction yet

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Still mindhaxes, the rest is just potency.

Stop bringing up consciousness xD. I already proved you wrong on that.

You failed to prove me wrong on immunity, time travel still exists, just not combat applicable, and deconstruction, just bring it up in the CRT

 

[Paul_Frank]

The mindhax so far only worked when we either raised his potency through kuva or lowered our resistance so the potency is not really quantifiable

But you didn't we proved you wrong its consciousness not just energy

Time travel doesn't exist though, it's not even them doing it having it on the profile is like saying that someone who walks through a prexisting portal that they didn't create has teleportation. I proved you wrong on immunity though. Nevermind they technically have deconstruction still it's just very limited

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It still means it exists. That's what im trying to prove, not the potency.

I believe i had the last argument there, arguing why your case with Ordis doesn't mean it's consciousness.

Hmm ok then yeah on the time travel. Im just too lazy to do it now.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Wait when did you disprove the thing with ordis meaning it's consciousness

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well Limbo is going to take this match and become second strongest Low 6-B by default since TDG is likely going to be downgraded.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2949694

If y'all don't mind commenting on the downgrade so we can move this along.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Oh ok, imma proceed to put the operator up against the BB low 6-B's for the strongest low 6-B.