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Baseline 9-B Tournament Round 2 - Zagor vs Galael

Is Galael allowed to transform? Because he becomes a 3.5 meters-tall spider-like creature with body armor, damage resistance, limitless stamina, extendable claws and a scythe.

While I can see Zagor holding his own in some way due to the environment, his abilities and weapons, but I question if he would be able to damage it at all, as a close fight is unwinnable for him, I think
 
The idea was that Galael would be allowed to transform unless that proved too much for the tournament. Why would a close fight be unwinnable for him? Perhaps unlikely, but what makes it impossible for him to win?
 
I mean, Zagor would have to face a giant spider with several claws that can be extended, a dura-negging scyther, a body-armor that makes him more resistant than usual, limitless stamina and I think even superior LS. I'm afraid that in a direct confrontation Zagor would just be overwhelmed by this monster, I don't know how would he be able to fight it at all.

I can see Zagor using his acrobatics, stealth mastery, senses and general knowledge of the environment to hide, move around, attack from distance or drop over him, but I'm not even sure the bullets or the hatched would penetrate the armor, or if Zagor can kill him during the ride without losing balance and being being thrown around.

But it's better to wait for Antoniofer and Eliminator, I guess.
 
Hatchet should penetrate, both are baseline after all, with Zagor being baseline even without the hatchet. As for bullets, maybe, fair enough on that. Also, I may be misunderstanding but Galael's true form only has average melee range without the scythe.

But I'll wait for Antoniofer yes
 
Yes, Claw Extension was more of a technical name, similar's to Wolverine's (should have named it Razor Claws), they have the standard range (at least for someone of its size). As a damage accumulation creature, it possesses natural armor (penetration is possible, but it requires a combination of speed and accuracy) and can stand a bunch of damage, but it dos not defend (parry nor dodge), or just defends in a very limited way.
 
Unless the claws are disproportionate, they should have a notable length given the size of the entire body, and he also can extend them. Everything gets worse if he can simultaneously swing the scythe and the claws.

But yes, let's wait.
 
Just to be sure, how does fear manip work, is being brave and used to fighting supernatural threats enough or do you need an actual resistance?
 
Funnily enough, this wouldn't be the first time Zagor faced giant spiders. I recall at least two occasions he has done so, although never one this different...

I don't know much about Galael. Zagor should be able to penetrate his harder carapace with his hatchet, not only because he has experience fighting gigantic, animal-like creatures, but he hits significantly harder than he does without it, and they're both close to baseline, as I understand it.

One thing Zagor likes to do against enemies like that is to catch them by surprise via a sneak attack, and he isn't hesitant to retreat to try again from a different angle.

I'm... Quite unsure actually. Galael can easily cause serious wounds to Zagor and he has a melee range advantage by being taller and having larger claws, and his stamina guarantees that he'll be going at it fullpower nonstop. Zagor, however, seems more mobile and more skilled, and he has the knowledge of what to do against much bigger opponents that can cut him up with their strikes.

I'll hold off on voting for now.
 
Galael can't use his scythe in the same turn that use its claws or viceverse, he only uses his claws when the he somehow losses the scythe.

Resistance to fear is not necessary, as it only requires a Composure check against 40/20 to avoid fear/terror (for reference, the typical trained soldier have Composure 30, so Zagor shouldn't have problem dealing with the monstrosity appearance).
 
If Galael is killed/KOed in his first form, does he still transform?
 
He transform the moment he is fataly wounded; then his body start to slightly float, turn into ashes and then generate a shockwave, revealing his true form.
 
I see. Does Zagor usually go for a kill or KO?
 
Armorchompy said:
I see. Does Zagor usually go for a kill or KO?
Click to expand...
Depends on the situation. Generally, KO first, as he is very good at judging the needed force to knock out someone without further hassle, but if the enemy persists, he doesn't shy away from using lethal force.
 
Then Galael might not get to transform at all, I think.
 
Since Galael possess the essential power Physical Exemption, he may be immune to being knocked out (at the end, he is a nightmare possessing the body of a corpse).
 
How much influence would have Galael's weakness to characters with positive emotions? Like, what kind of emotions are affected and would Zagor meet the requirements?
 
A character needs to remain completely calm in order to trigger Galael's weakness, kind of serenity, or in the other hand, emotions like happiness or hope (it does not specify these two but few Lord of Nightmare are weakened by those emotions).
 
He does not have the need to tranform in any other instance. For the adventure, since he is using the powers of a Lord of Nightmare named Seline (something not considered in its profile), and thus can't be killed unless one uses a weapon "touched" by her; if that is the case, when "killed" he just remain still with an empty expression, and will resurrect given the time. If killed with with the "touched" weapon (or damaging his corpse with it) then he proceed to transform, then it doesn't matter what kind of weapon is used to kill him.

His profile doesn't involve using Seline's powers, one does not need an special weapon to kill his first form, but I believe he can still transform once the same requirements are met, or simply tranform at will.
 
Antoniofer said:
A character needs to remain completely calm in order to trigger Galael's weakness, kind of serenity, or in the other hand, emotions like happiness or hope (it does not specify these two but few Lord of Nightmare are weakened by those emotions).
Click to expand...
I wouldn't count on Zagor activating that weakness. It may happen, on occasion he's shown to indeed embody positive emotions and become a sort of paragon to them to the point he is chosen to match against some of the greatest evils in existance, but those are far in-between and there's generally a big charge of emotional investment within. I don't think Galael has the needed emotional connection to Zagor to him feel anything greater than the usual, fight-related stuff, which is adrenaline, a certain dose of anger, a motivation to do the right thing, nothing that really would help much in that sense.

That being said, here's my analysis: (Sidenote: Jesus, I need to clean up my english mistakes... I always do the dumbest mistakes-)

Physically, Galael seems stronger, even if just a bit, and they are close enough in tier that properties like material hardness are very important. His body, if he becomes a spider-like creature with a chitinous shell, would make him a harder target, which is a bad thing against most of Zagor's weaponry. Knives and bullets wouldn't do much, I don't think, and Zagor would need to land very clean hits with his hatchet and blows if he wishes to do some damage. To be fair, though, Zagor does not have any difficulty in landing very precise strikes with either his hands or his hatchet, and he hits significantly harder with his hatchet than without, even compared to what would be normal to someone using a weapon. An interesting bit about Zagor is that he can be significantly boosted through strong emotions, to the point of easily beating/matching people otherwise close or stronger than he is. It wouldn't matter much here, I don't think, as it usually requires emotional motivation and connection to what is happening, but it possibly could influence this.

One thing of note is that Galael has a superior LS, which could be troublesome in a grappling situation. While Zagor has some feats such as overpowering wild animals that can get him to match Galael's more casual LS, he certainly can't grapple with the 1-ton-lifting stuff he does. Zagor does appear to have a superior skill in martial arts and grappling, though, which could be very useful - he has experience in using the momentum of enemies and technique to throw, take down or even chokehold them despite them being very superior to him. Case in point, Bela Rakosi, which is so much stronger than Zagor that he can easily overpower him with one hand and ragdoll him around, but once Zagor was ready for him, he easily threw him off a cliff by using technique, and there are other examples of Zagor overpowering people a bit stronger than he is using skill. Would that allow him to overpower Galael?... I don't think so, but considering that Zagor is smaller than Galael and has a lower center of gravity, I also do not think that Galael can easily use the superior LS to grapple him.

On their powers, this is the part that makes me wonder, because I can see both of them working what they have to their favour. Tackling Galael's own first (Which you guys please do correct me if I make any wrong assumptions. I'm basing only what I can see on the profile and what has been said here), I'll say the fear-based stuff wouldn't be very useful (Which is good, Zagor is on an already precarious strength position here) as Zagor not only has supernatural willpower, but he is very much used to very scary, otherworldly stuff. I don't know how the Ice Manipulation or Body Control work like, so I'll refrain commenting. Surface Scaling is very interesting (And I should add that to Zagor's profile too, although Galael's probably better at it than Zagor is) and can influence the fight depending on how Zagor goes about it. His durability negation is, however, a very powerful tool here. I don't think Zagor would try to block any strikes as the hatchet really isn't optimized for that, and he isn't someone to try to take hits as he is more of an acrobatic fighter, but if Zagor gets hit cleanly, he's gone.

Zagor has basically superior skill in many different fields, which he'll need to apply because a slugfest isn't optimal for this scenario. It isn't really impossible for him to win a direct fight, not even extremely hard, but he'll be losing way more than he'd be winning, as he'd need to incapacitate Galael quickly. He has good pain tolerance, and has the stamina to fight at full power for a good amount of time, and the skill to hit more than he'd get hit by Galael, and Galael has been said here to not really try to block and parry attacks, which would be bad for him. But Galael is tireless, has considerably superior reach (Which is a big thing in melee) and not only he is stronger, but his strikes can go right through Zagor, so I'd bet on Galael on that scenario. But Zagor is wily too, and he isn't hesitant to retreat after an initial scuffle, and he would use the environment to ambush Galael and do surprise attacks, maybe even using the vines on Galael's greater frame.

In fact, it wouldn't be OOC for Zagor to retreat quite a bit deeply into the forest, fashion some traps and improvised bow and arrows (possibly with poisoned tips, which, to be fair, wouldn't change much), and use everything there to whittle him down or even to entrap the potentially longer limbs and larger size.

But it is only a possibility, and I don't know how Galael would react to such scenarios, but it is a fun thought and something very possible indeed.
 
Ice Manip comes from his attacks being cold based (only when tranformed from both natural weapons and scythe), that means it has the typical secondary effects that low temperatures could have (like freezing); let's say, it causes a cut and instead of a bloody wound it would leave a freezing mark.

Body Control is minor, feats of Strnegth skill simply allows him to control his muscle to take advantage of his strength, that by all means, it may increase it lifting capability (from 350 kg - 1 tons to 1 ton - 3 ton). However, this would require an exceptional perfomance, as he possesses FoS 40, when the needed result is 120 (in a d100 roll).

As for using poisons, since Galael possesses Physical Exemption, that means that he is immune to natural poisons (that also involve posions made by mundane means) unless they are made by a creature of Gnosis 25 or higher.
 
Antoniofer said:
Ice Manip comes from his attacks being cold based (only when tranformed from both natural weapons and scythe), that means it has the typical secondary effects that low temperatures could have (like freezing); let's say, it causes a cut and instead of a bloody wound it would leave a freezing mark.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. One more inconvenience that would make melee even less a good option for Zagor.
Antoniofer said:
Body Control is minor, feats of Strnegth skill simply allows him to control his muscle to take advantage of his strength, that by all means, it may increase it lifting capability (from 350 kg - 1 tons to 1 ton - 3 ton). However, this would require an exceptional perfomance, as he possesses FoS 40, when the needed result is 120 (in a d100 roll).
Click to expand...
I like very much that kind of ability, I wish more RPGs had it. That makes the grappling stuff harder for Zagor, too, but as a possiblility as it would be very hard to Galael to pull off.
Antoniofer said:
As for using poisons, since Galael possesses Physical Exemption, that means that he is immune to natural poisons (that also involve posions made by mundane means) unless they are made by a creature of Gnosis 25 or higher.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guessed as much. Zagor knows how to make poisons from herbs and stuff but it isn't anything special.

For now I'll vote for Zagor, but it could really go both ways and I'm very willing to change my mind, as my justification for Zagor winning is that I find it likely that he'd end up making a tactical retreat only to whittle Galael down, using superior mobility via vine swinging and terrain usage to ambush and take him on a very close range from a good angle, but there are many other possibilities.

Really, any scenario that Zagor does not retreat (Which I am counting he does, as he is smart enough to realize a lost cause), is bound to result in him losing.
 
It's worth mentioning retreating for too long counts as self-BFR. Not sure what the time limit on that is though.
 
Armorchompy said:
It's worth mentioning retreating for too long counts as self-BFR. Not sure what the time limit on that is though.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I thought about that, but I don't think he'd need to do it for a long time. Even just baiting Galael a bit so he can get the drop on him should be fine to do.
 
Are north american jungles that dense with vines? I'm not that knowledgeable in ecology, but north american jungles are not as vine thick as the amazonian ones. And although one may sneak through galael, that would be particulary difficult to do if they are both in close range (although depends of how the fight goes, when Galael transform, he may launch Zagor few meters away).
 
Antoniofer said:
Are north american jungles that dense with vines? I'm not that knowledgeable in ecology, but north american jungles are not as vine thick as the amazonian ones. And although one may sneak through galael, that would be particulary difficult to do if they are both in close range (although depends of how the fight goes, when Galael transform, he may launch Zagor few meters away).
Click to expand...
I'm not very knowledgeable, but I think it depends on the region. There are some that have a good presence of vines, branches and stuff to swing from, some are practically deprived of them.
 
Welp, I do believe that most possible scenarios were evaluated. Although Zagor can beat the Marques with minor difficulty, it seems that he needs to rely of sneaking pass through Galael true form I see him lost most of the time unless he possesses an ability/tool that allows him to divert Galael, and yet that is not a guaranteed victory. If he has ranged weapons, he could try to keep distance between the nightmare, but it could take some time before running out of ammo.
 
If I could cast a vote, I think I'd honestly go incon.
 
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