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Fulbring Bankai Ichigo had a fairly even fight with Yhwach while Kenpachi got destroyed by Royd Lloyd who only had 70-80% of base Yhwach's strength.
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
Apollonir.Scale
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I remember it was Yhwach holding back and didn't Ichigo get a huge power boost for a moment there anyway?
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Yhwach was holding back, but Ichigo still managed to severely burn Yhwach's arm even though Yhwach used Blut Vene.
I don't think so (at least, I don't remember him having a boost). He was pretty tired and injured after being trapped in the Jail, and the only "boost" he has was being able to use Blut... but he can't control it and only unconsciously used Blut Vene, not Blut Arterie.
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I'm glad some people like it. And I hope I am 100% wrong because I want the finale to be awesome and keep the hype for next Cour.
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She explicitly can sense and generally measure the strength of spiritual pressure, which is something that doodoo-tier Fullbringers like Soul Society Arc Chad can do.
There definitely does exist feats of Tsukishima and Ginjo sensing spiritual pressure/energy without using the Orihime argument, but I don't feel like scouring through the Fullbring Arc to find them for you when you should already know this intuitively if you've ever read the series before. Sensing spiritual energy is a bog-standard thing that anyone who is notable in the series can do, with few, explicitly made, exceptions. Which doesn't exist for the aforementioned two characters.
Apollonir.Scale
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You misunderstood me, my friend. I didn't ask if they can sense spirits. I asked if they can read power levels. It's also possible that they can sense spirits but not fully understand how powerful the spirit's owner is.
From the manga scans you sent, I can only see that they can sense spirits, understand emotions through the spirit, and understand that someone is coming through the spirit.
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If you actually sat down and read the scans, specifically this one, you'd realize she makes mention of regardless of how strong Ichigo's spiritual pressure gets, she will always know it's Ichigo's because of its 'scent", which inherently means she is sensing the strength of it as she wouldn't bring up the strength of it if it was something completely imperceivable to her. It's a necessary conclusion to make because the grammatical structure necessarily implies it.
Excellence616
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Ichigo was enraged
PerezosoUlixes
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Actually, there's no proof that Ayon would be stronger or weaker depending on which state the Tres Bestias were evoking it. Not only that, we could easily say that it's actually stronger in its second appearance by feats alone. Defeating a Vollständig Quilge that was tanking without any trace of difficulty Fullbring Shikai Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho is just a better feat than beating some Lieutenants.
Also, I don't know if it was a typo, but Vollständig Quilge is not in any way relative to FB Ichigo.
Your disbelief of something happening is not a proof of any kind. Just because you think Ayon would be stronger if summoned by the Tres Bestias in Resurrección rather than in their Base form, it doesn't make it true. And the proof you want is directly shown by Ayon
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There's many reason why it is a fact.
And with current bleach scaling, yukio's dimension destruction gonna be a thing as well. Zaraki is just not that guy. He is much actually far below FB ichigo, it's not even arguable
Guacamolefletcher
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There is no stated connection between Ayon's power in base vs Resureccion. Ayon in the FKT is super strong, but let's not act like he didn't fail to competely erase Iba with a Cero.
You are making a fallacy here called "shifting the burden of proof," when it's yours to prove that Ayon in the FKT > Ayon in the TYBW. There is no inherent connection in the scaling.
Fullbring Bankai Ichigo is considered by everyone to be stronger than TYBW Zaraki? He does good against Base Yhwach, same one who was capable of completely destroying TYBW Zaraki (who had already gotten stronger from his SAFWY form).
Also the dimension feat, where SAFWY Zaraki isn't capable of breaking Yukio's dimension, while Fullbring Bankai Ichigo is capable of breaking that dimension. It's explicitly stated than an all-out assault from SAFWY Zaraki can't, while Ichigo can just by transforming.
she can sense Reiatsu, we've literally seen this in the story
LOOOOOL I forgot about this, when I was the one that implemented that revision
Can you prove Yhwach is holding back? Ichigo literally burns his arm mid-fight, and clashes with Yhwach constantly. Also, although he is heavily damaged by them, Ichigo survives a named attack from Yhwach. Also, given our scaling, this is very consistent.
You have Ichigo become < Urahara (given the Quilge-absorbed Ayon scaling), and also relative to Yamamoto, which allowed him to be at that Yhwach tier of power, and then fight him. At the same time, once Kenpachi becomes > 70-80% of base Yhwach's power, he becomes capable of fighting Fullbring Bankai Ichigo. It's all internally consistent.
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I interrupt this discussion to give out my top 5 endings
1. Thank You - Home Made Kazoku
2. Song For - Rookiez is Punk'd
3. Endroll - Yoh Kamiya
4. Haruka Kanata - Secret Zero
5. Kimi wo Mamotte, Kimi wo Ashite - Sambomaster
1. Thank You - Home Made Kazoku
2. Song For - Rookiez is Punk'd
3. Endroll - Yoh Kamiya
4. Haruka Kanata - Secret Zero
5. Kimi wo Mamotte, Kimi wo Ashite - Sambomaster
PerezosoUlixes
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We actually can easily say he's, in fact, not holding back as he explicitly states that he intents to crush Ichigo as he leaves Yhwach no other choice. Also, we see Yhwach going for a fatal blow against Ichigo, as he tries to cut his throat while in the ground.
Apollonir.Scale
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I get what you mean but in FKT Arc Ayon defeated the Lieutenants and then was destroyed by Yamamoto. So defeating the lieutenants doesn't mean he is max lieutenant level. The characters that were there at that time and faced him were lieutenants. You think like that because someone stronger than the lieutenant faced him in TYBW. Think of Quilge in FKT arc. In that case, Ayon will still be able to fight Quilge.
This can also be interpreted as his soul having a strong sense. In fact, at the beginning of the SS Arc, when someone powerful comes, they can feel his reiatsu. Yamamoto was also called "transcended reiatsu". Yammy can feel reiatsu without pesquisa, but he still has to use pesquisa to understand someone's power level.
Apollonir.Scale
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Iba not dying would not be an anti-feat for Ayon in this case. It has been observed that most characters in the series cannot kill a character immediately even if they are much superior to him. Yamamoto>>>>>>>>>>>>Ayon but Ayon does not die in Yamamoto's first hit.
In TYBW, Yamamoto burns most of the quincy's but NaNaNa, Bazz B and As Nodt do not die, they just lose the match.
It must be proven that Rukia and Yukio know Zaraki's power level. Otherwise, this statement does not include Zaraki, and I remember Zaraki was wearing an eye patch there.
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Stop trying to shift the burden. You’re not slick. You made the positive claim that FKT Ayon > TYBW Ayon, by definition the burden of proof is on you buddy.
We aren’t saying that. You’ve failed to provide any evidence that Ayon stayed the same level of power.
Deceived already packed you up on this so I won’t repeat what he said. You can read the physiology blogs to learn more about the basic powers spiritual beings have in Bleach.
ReaperAndBlues
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Ichigo was the only one who could break Yukio's dimension in the post-timeskip. Plus 80% Base Yhwach no diffed Kenpachi, while a weakened Ichigo put up a good fight against the real Base Yhwach
Apollonir.Scale
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Okay, couldn't Shunsui have remained at the same power level as before? You admitted that Shikai Shunsui was at the same power level even in TYBW. Because there was nothing to show that he was stronger than before. What about Ayon?
I looked at the Soul Physiology and Fullbringer Physiology pages but there is nothing about reading power levels.
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Shunsui is stated to have been at the same-ish level of strength. So we have due reason to believe he didn’t get much stronger. This means nothing for Ayon tho. They’re two separate characters. Again prove Ayon stayed the same strength bud.
read what deceived sent you again. He already slammed you on this topic.
Apollonir.Scale
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I already responded to the manga panel he posted.
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That interpretation is less likely to be true because the context of the scene is the crew sensing the battle occurring above them and wondering whose the spiritual pressures engaging in combat. It doesn't make sense to assume it's just them feeling the strength of the Reiatsu, when they're explicitly sensing both and trying to figure who these entities are.
But, assuming you're correct on this and they aren't actually sensing their spiritual pressure through a specific spiritual sense, but rather through sense-experience. Orihime specifically notes the change in Uryu's spiritual pressure, assumingly in how strong it has become since the scene in question is Uryu combating against Jirobo, so we have no reason to interpret this scene as anything else but her sensing the strength of Uryu's spiritual pressure, and as we know, Quincies specifically don't project their Reiatsu as they battle; they fight not by projecting their souls outwards, but by conjoining their spiritual energy with Reishi and outwardly manipulating it.
So the existence of this scan completely debunks this notion of Orihime being incapable of sensing the strength of spiritual pressure. You're just wrong on this point.
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Btw just wondering how many layers is the soul crush thing in Bleach again? Cause there is a match I wanna do with True Zanpakuto Ichigo as the two characters have similar personality and AP (3-C to 3-B via stat boosts). But soul crush is a thing and that kinda prevent matches from being possible.
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Rn 0 are accepted I think
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Wait really. Nice that means it’s actually possible for that match to be made since the other character has like a layer or two of soul resistance last I checked. Oh boy this is gonna be fun. But I need to update the other profile first. Since the profile hasn’t been updated yet. But AP wise after update he starts at
71.977289 ZettaFoe and caps out at 12.95591202 YottaFoe with a shield that could briefly hold off attacks from characters that are much much stronger 38.86773606 YottaFoe
71.977289 ZettaFoe and caps out at 12.95591202 YottaFoe with a shield that could briefly hold off attacks from characters that are much much stronger 38.86773606 YottaFoe
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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Bleach doesn't have layered soul hax right now, but I'm pretty sure revisions will be made in the future to reinstate its layers.
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Soul Crush should be a viable restriction I think
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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That's true.
Trust me, as a Nasuverse fan, I know your pain.
I don't think you can restrict it. It's not a transformation or piece of equipment, nor does it boost their stats.
Guacamolefletcher
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That's different, because Yamamoto cut through Ayon completely with the attack, while FKT Ayon couldn't burn through Iba instantly.
They can sense power levels, and Zaraki doesn't control his own power level in this arc?
We didn't "admit" this on a whim, we said this because there is a direct statement about this. We don't say this arbitrarily.
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I said it should be viable. As in, the rules should allow it.
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Yeah pretty it can’t be restricted based on current rules. And that’s why it’s hard to find matches for Bleach characters. And for that other series I’m trying to make matches with as well. Because not many characters that are popular with supporters are around the 3-C range.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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Oh, I know. The Nasuverse's 4-D Invulnerability to everything is the bane of making fair matches for almost every relevant character ever.
That's fair.
To be fair, 3-C is a weirdly sparsely populated tier, so that was always going to be a struggle.
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Cause then creating fights would be more fun and interesting, duh
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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I guess that's fair, but eh. I guess you could make a thread about it.
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Ehh at least it’s easier to find matches for than their old tier of 4-A where they just AP stomp the crap out of everybody in 4-A because their scaling of 4-A has them one shotting 4-As that most 4-As in other verses scale to. Though it’s not like their current 3-C tier is that much better.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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That's true. Most of 4-A scale to the basic starry sky calc, so anyone above that kind of just AP stomp for the most part.
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