BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Ssr4vegito]

Ya know idrc if people are having the TS vs Dangai debate again, but anyone on Soul King Yhwach tier would shit stomp Dangai Ichigo.

Dangai Ichigo was shitstomping someone who transcended even the Soul King. The difference between Butterfly Aizen and monster should be atleat same as Shinigami Aizen and mullet Aizen.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Dangai Ichigo was shitstomping someone who transcended even the Soul King. The difference between Butterfly Aizen and monster should be atleat same as Shinigami Aizen and mullet Aizen.

SK Yhwach >= Muken Aizen > Monster Aizen

 

[Ssr4vegito]

@Decieved3596 Kubo directly says Ichigo regained the power which defeated Aizen, which was his Dangai/Deicide version.

Kubo directly says Aizen became stronger compared to his previous Deicide versions.

The amount of cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Yhwach was talking about when Ichigo regained his powers during Ginjo arc. You can literally see Ginjo on panel when Yhwach says that.

That Aizen became stringer thing might be just a translation error from what i got. Also how qould Kisuke know he's stronger than his Monster form ?

 

[Ssr4vegito]

So many wrong stuff lol:

1. no, they simply recognised him after saw him visually, they were legit not sensing his reiatsu. Anyway I already stated that concept is slowly use less by Kubo so not really a point I was proving and I agree anyway that part is weird, but Kubo also like to be vague when he write

I think you should probably read it again. The the second page where say "this reiatsu , it's Captain Zaraki" and the other panels are shown them sensing it amd shouting it's captain Zaraki.

2. this is false, this seems like 2015 bleach, Unsmaked clearly stated that when a reiatsu is too HUGE/POWERFUL it can’t be sensed, not because of being hybrid, that’s the reason, this already negate your whole premise, and it is really explained well in deicide arc, meanwhile it’s true hybird can reach trascendence easily and its the key for the soul king, the not feeling anything this is due too much gap of reiastu. This should have been obvious when Aizen explain he can LOWER his reiastu to let the others such as gin, tatsuk etc… interfere and sense him

Can you send me a scan for that. I never said reiatsu can't be sensed simply by being hybrid. You can't sense the reiatsu of someone who exists on higher plane. It's because of the higher plane of existence that reiatsu can't be sensed. Aizen never saud he has to lower his REIATSU , he said he has to lower his LEVEL so others could sense his reiatsu , which from what i understand likely refers to the level of existence
Transcendence

Kubo set zaraki as war potential for a simple reason, only delusional people can think Yama Is stronger than zaraki during the TYBWA when CFYOW is just 6 month after (zaraki just ******* trained in his dojo with no major threat lol) literally show us base zaraki being even stronger than ichibei Who is > bankai Yama. As I said zaraki got stronger but thinking his base is >> his Bankai when even kubo used yachiru to hype it as being his maximum hidden power is just dumb and doesn’t make sense.
Zaraki always been stronger than Yamamoto, and that's narratively supported by being a war potential for just his strength, and the feats on both TYBWA and CFYOW are higher than Yama.

Zaraki being a war potential doesn't mean much considering he got destroyed around by Royd or Yhwach. Ichibei utterly humiliated Yhwach in their encounter. Ichibei is a WP for wisdom while Kenny is for combat strength. Do you think pre awakening Kenny could beat Ichibei in pure combat strength ?
The thing is there's nothing in TYBW that i think puts Zaraki as above or below Yama. Yama dies during 1st invasion so there's nothing much to scale to , with a single statement of only Yhwach being able to handle Yama's bankai. Yamamoto was not listed as a WP because he became soft as Yhwach stated himself.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

SK Yhwach >= Muken Aizen > Monster Aizen

The whole Aizen is stronger than monster Aizen might be a translation error.
Also how would Kisuke kmow TYBW is stronger than Monster Aizen if he can't sense the reiatsu ?

 

[CodeCCLL]

I feel Like kubo retconned transcendent reiastu being a dimensional tier amp. You can't sense the reiatsu of someone who exists on higher plane. It's because of the higher plane of existence that reiatsu can't be sensed.

Dangai Ichigo was shitstomping someone who transcended even the Soul King. The difference between Butterfly Aizen and monster should be atleat same as Shinigami Aizen and mullet Aizen.

Aizen explained it the whole 2D 3D stuff. Aizen transcended beyond the state of Shinigami

Have you ever thought of the possibility that there isn't a character with HDE in Bleach?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The whole Aizen is stronger than monster Aizen might be a translation error.

… cool headcanon ig

Also how would Kisuke kmow TYBW is stronger than Monster Aizen if he can't sense the reiatsu ?

Via his technology and understanding of the SK. Sensing reiatsu is not the sole means of determining how strong someone is.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Dangai Ichigo was shitstomping someone who transcended even the Soul King. The difference between Butterfly Aizen and monster should be atleat same as Shinigami Aizen and mullet Aizen.

Physical Statistics :

Prime Soul King >True Bankai İchigo with Horn of the Salvation>SK Yhwach >= Muken Aizen >=CFYOW Zaraki > True Shikai İchigo ~ Mugetsu İchigo > Dangai İchigo > Monster Form Aizen > Butterfly Aizen.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Via his technology and understanding of the SK. Sensing reiatsu is not the sole means of determining how strong someone is

Explain please. How does his understanding of SK and tech has to do with him guessing Aizen's powers ? It's only after he saw the Kurohitsugi that he knew Aizen got stronger.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Physical Statistics :
Prime Soul King >True Bankai İchigo with Horn of the Solvation > SK Yhwach >= Muken Aizen >=CFYOW Zaraki > True Shikai İchigo ~ Mugetsu İchigo > Dangai İchigo > Monster Form Aizen > Butterfly Aizen.

Monster Aizen is on a higher level of existence than the Soul King. Logically SK shouldn't be able to sense him.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Have you ever thought of the possibility that there isn't a character with HDE in Bleach?

I think you should read what i wrote properly. I never said they are HD in mathematical sense. I just said how Aizen explained his evolution using the 2D 3D stuff.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

… cool headcanon ig

I got different translations from different sources. I don't know how accurate it is , so i may or may not brong it up later.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Monster Aizen is on a higher level of existence than the Soul King. Logically SK shouldn't be able to sense the likes of Monster Aizen.

*Weakened Soul King

 

[CodeCCLL]

I think you should read what i wrote properly. I never said they are HD in mathematical sense. I just said how Aizen explained his evolution using the 2D 3D stuff.

Then you should use more appropriate terms.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

*Weakened Soul King

Never specified. Butterfly Aizen became a replacement ,Monster Aizen evolved into an higher existence. Even if SK is weakened his state of existence doesn't change. Aizen transcemded into an even higher level. The difference would be same as Shinigami Aizen and Mullet Aizen

 

[CodeCCLL]

I give up.

 

[Deceived3596]

Homie's an actual Reio clone but is somehow less knowledgeable on Bleach than Reio himself.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Never specified.

So why assume it’s PSK when nothing supports it.

Butterfly Aizen became a replacement ,Monster Aizen evolved into an higher existence.

When did he become a higher existence? He got stronger sure but that doesn’t equate to higher existence. SK Yhwach > TS > Mugetsu > Dangai > Monster. The Old Man tells us that all the power Ichigo has used prior to getting TS was just a fraction of his actual power. Becoming a replacement does even necessarily mean that Butterfly = WSK, just that Butterfly is capable of maintaining the cosmology.

Even if SK is weakened his state of existence doesn't change. Aizen transcemded into an even higher level. The difference would be same as Shinigami Aizen and Mullet Aizen

He very clearly did. Losing his arms alone alters his existence, let alone everything else.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

So why assume it’s PSK when nothing supports it.

Yes. Nothing is there on ppwerlevel. It just states Butterfly Aizen reached the same state of existence. He could be weaker , equal , stronger.

When did he become a higher existence? He got stronger sure but that doesn’t equate to higher existence. SK Yhwach > TS > Mugetsu > Dangai > Monster. The Old Man tells us that all the power Ichigo has used prior to getting TS was just a fraction of his actual power. Becoming a replacement does even necessarily mean that Butterfly = WSK, just that Butterfly is capable of maintaining the cosmology.

In the Databooks. It states Butterfly Aizen reached the state of God and became a replacement for SK. SK was a being that transcended Quincy and Shinigami and had many abilities. BA transcends Shinigami and Hollows. Monster Aizen is stated to evolve into an even higher existence , also stated to transcend everything which would include SK as well. BA Aizen and SK are true Gods , a state Hikone needs the hogyoku to reach.

He very clearly did. Losing his arms alone alters his existence, let alone everything else.

Putting a Source would be helpful.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Aizen later loses the power he gained but grows stronger in Muken to possibly surpassing butterfly form

 

[AnonymousBlank]

In the Databooks. It states Butterfly Aizen reached the state of God and became a replacement for SK.

And like I pointed out and you agreed to, this doesn’t equate him to the SK in anyway, just that he is able to perform the same feat WSK does passively while basically dead.

SK was a being that transcended Quincy and Shinigami and had many abilities. BA transcends Shinigami and Hollows.

That’s a whole lot of fluff that is irrelevant.

Monster Aizen is stated to evolve into an even higher existence , also stated to transcend everything which would include SK as well. BA Aizen and SK are true Gods , a state Hikone needs the hogyoku to reach.

Your first scan is irrelevant, we already agree Butterfly is supposed to be in the same ballpark as WSK.

Your second scan says he attempted to become a higher existence. Attempted being the keyword. All that says is that Monster surpasses the state of god = WSK … which every god tier does in TYBW. Even a held back TS does. No higher level of existence to WSK at all.

Third scan is contradicted by Monster literally not transcending Ichigo. At best it supports the previous scan that says he surpassed WSK.

Putting a Source would be helpful.

SK is from the OG universe where the concepts of life and death were fused before he split them. Nothing could die. WSK died. His existence has changed.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

This mf is Undre's brother

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Your second scan says he attempted to become a higher existence. Attempted being the keyword. All that says is that Monster surpasses the state of god = WSK … which every god tier does in TYBW. Even a held back TS does. No higher level of existence to WSK at all.

Third scan is contradicted by Monster literally not transcending Ichigo. At best it supports the previous scan that says he surpassed WSK.

In the first scan it states he reached similiar existence as SK. Second says he surpassd the State of God. He attempted to evolve and did gaining a new and final form form and powers said to transcend everything which means he did transcend again.

In Ichigo's case we already know he is above Aizen whereas Butterfly Aizen was stated to be in same state as SK. Aizen evolved into his final form. The transcends all part would still apply to everyone not Dangai Ichigo.

SK is from the OG universe where the concepts of life and death were fused before he split them. Nothing could die. WSK died. His existence has changed

The Noble ancestors were the ones who used his almighty power to split the world. Also i don't how death has to do with state of existence , doesn't it mean that when the split happened and the concept of death was created it applied to SK too. As far as i know SK transcended Quincy and Shinigami and looks like one too. Also Wasn't SK killimg hollows in the primordial world ? I'm not too knowledgable in this topic , might talk about it later after finding more info

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

There doesn't seem to be much information on this subject. We have only one example.(Almighty-Balance)

we are literally told that when a quincy/ someone with a piece of his soul dies all their stuff is now his, powers, skills etc.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Also Wasn't SK killimg hollows in the primordial world ? I'm not too knowledgable in this topic , might talk about it later after finding more info

turning them into sands of reishi/erasing them (Existence erasure) not ur normal killing

 

[Deceived3596]

Aizen isn't stronger than Prime Soul King, stop the cap.

I can't believe people actually believe this.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

turning them into sands of reishi/erasing them (Existence erasure) not ur normal killing

So maybe the Soul King did devolve. But wouldn't that mean he's not on the same level of transcendence as before ?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It be 2023 and the Deicide vs TYBW GT debate is unfortunately still alive

 

[Damage3245]

It be 2023 and the Deicide vs TYBW GT debate is unfortunately still alive

I'm amazed at how many old topics I see for certain verses being alive and well still.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Can anyone share the scan link for this section ?

 

[CodeCCLL]

I'm reviewing Yhwach and Reio's all abilities. I would be glad if you help.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Question is aizen’s sense hax layered?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm amazed at how many old topics I see for certain verses being alive and well still.

Let’s bring back 5-A God Tree for Naruto to round things out

 

[Damage3245]

Let’s bring back 5-A God Tree for Naruto to round things out

More like let's bring back 6-B God Tiers.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Which abilities in bleach are layered just asking,

 

[KingogKings777]

More like let's bring back 6-B God Tiers.

Lets not wank characters all of a sudden.

 

[Deceived3596]

Let's start pixel scaling Seireitei and Las Noches again.

High 7-A Espada go brrr.

Which abilities in bleach are layered just asking,

All of them.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

All of them.

How many layers is aizen’s though

 

[CodeCCLL]

How many layers is aizen’s though

Aizen has a sense with at more than one layered. My memory is foggy for Pre-Tybw Arcs. So I'm not sure how many layers.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Aizen has a sense with at more than one layered. My memory is foggy for Pre-Tybw Arcs. So I'm not sure how many layers.

Are there any where you are sure about the layers