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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Arc7Kuroi said:
Ya know idrc if people are having the TS vs Dangai debate again, but anyone on Soul King Yhwach tier would shit stomp Dangai Ichigo.
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Dangai Ichigo was shitstomping someone who transcended even the Soul King. The difference between Butterfly Aizen and monster should be atleat same as Shinigami Aizen and mullet Aizen.
 
@Decieved3596 Kubo directly says Ichigo regained the power which defeated Aizen, which was his Dangai/Deicide version.

Kubo directly says Aizen became stronger compared to his previous Deicide versions.

The amount of cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Yhwach was talking about when Ichigo regained his powers during Ginjo arc. You can literally see Ginjo on panel when Yhwach says that.

That Aizen became stringer thing might be just a translation error from what i got. Also how qould Kisuke know he's stronger than his Monster form ?
 
Tyri456 said:
So many wrong stuff lol:

1. no, they simply recognised him after saw him visually, they were legit not sensing his reiatsu. Anyway I already stated that concept is slowly use less by Kubo so not really a point I was proving and I agree anyway that part is weird, but Kubo also like to be vague when he write
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I think you should probably read it again. The the second page where say "this reiatsu , it's Captain Zaraki" and the other panels are shown them sensing it amd shouting it's captain Zaraki.


Tyri456 said:
2. this is false, this seems like 2015 bleach, Unsmaked clearly stated that when a reiatsu is too HUGE/POWERFUL it can’t be sensed, not because of being hybrid, that’s the reason, this already negate your whole premise, and it is really explained well in deicide arc, meanwhile it’s true hybird can reach trascendence easily and its the key for the soul king, the not feeling anything this is due too much gap of reiastu. This should have been obvious when Aizen explain he can LOWER his reiastu to let the others such as gin, tatsuk etc… interfere and sense him
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Can you send me a scan for that. I never said reiatsu can't be sensed simply by being hybrid. You can't sense the reiatsu of someone who exists on higher plane. It's because of the higher plane of existence that reiatsu can't be sensed. Aizen never saud he has to lower his REIATSU , he said he has to lower his LEVEL so others could sense his reiatsu , which from what i understand likely refers to the level of existence
Transcendence

Tyri456 said:
Kubo set zaraki as war potential for a simple reason, only delusional people can think Yama Is stronger than zaraki during the TYBWA when CFYOW is just 6 month after (zaraki just ******* trained in his dojo with no major threat lol) literally show us base zaraki being even stronger than ichibei Who is > bankai Yama. As I said zaraki got stronger but thinking his base is >> his Bankai when even kubo used yachiru to hype it as being his maximum hidden power is just dumb and doesn’t make sense.
Zaraki always been stronger than Yamamoto, and that's narratively supported by being a war potential for just his strength, and the feats on both TYBWA and CFYOW are higher than Yama.
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Zaraki being a war potential doesn't mean much considering he got destroyed around by Royd or Yhwach. Ichibei utterly humiliated Yhwach in their encounter. Ichibei is a WP for wisdom while Kenny is for combat strength. Do you think pre awakening Kenny could beat Ichibei in pure combat strength ?
The thing is there's nothing in TYBW that i think puts Zaraki as above or below Yama. Yama dies during 1st invasion so there's nothing much to scale to , with a single statement of only Yhwach being able to handle Yama's bankai. Yamamoto was not listed as a WP because he became soft as Yhwach stated himself.
 
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Reio35 said:
I feel Like kubo retconned transcendent reiastu being a dimensional tier amp. You can't sense the reiatsu of someone who exists on higher plane. It's because of the higher plane of existence that reiatsu can't be sensed.
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Ssr4vegito said:
Dangai Ichigo was shitstomping someone who transcended even the Soul King. The difference between Butterfly Aizen and monster should be atleat same as Shinigami Aizen and mullet Aizen.
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Ssr4vegito said:
Aizen explained it the whole 2D 3D stuff. Aizen transcended beyond the state of Shinigami
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Have you ever thought of the possibility that there isn't a character with HDE in Bleach?
 
Ssr4vegito said:
Dangai Ichigo was shitstomping someone who transcended even the Soul King. The difference between Butterfly Aizen and monster should be atleat same as Shinigami Aizen and mullet Aizen.
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Physical Statistics :

Prime Soul King >True Bankai İchigo with Horn of the Salvation>SK Yhwach >= Muken Aizen >=CFYOW Zaraki > True Shikai İchigo ~ Mugetsu İchigo > Dangai İchigo > Monster Form Aizen > Butterfly Aizen.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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Arc7Kuroi said:
Via his technology and understanding of the SK. Sensing reiatsu is not the sole means of determining how strong someone is
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Explain please. How does his understanding of SK and tech has to do with him guessing Aizen's powers ? It's only after he saw the Kurohitsugi that he knew Aizen got stronger.
 
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CodeCCLL said:
Physical Statistics :
Prime Soul King >True Bankai İchigo with Horn of the Solvation > SK Yhwach >= Muken Aizen >=CFYOW Zaraki > True Shikai İchigo ~ Mugetsu İchigo > Dangai İchigo > Monster Form Aizen > Butterfly Aizen.
Click to expand...
Monster Aizen is on a higher level of existence than the Soul King. Logically SK shouldn't be able to sense him.
 
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CodeCCLL said:
*Weakened Soul King
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Never specified. Butterfly Aizen became a replacement ,Monster Aizen evolved into an higher existence. Even if SK is weakened his state of existence doesn't change. Aizen transcemded into an even higher level. The difference would be same as Shinigami Aizen and Mullet Aizen
 
Ssr4vegito said:
Never specified.
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So why assume it’s PSK when nothing supports it.
Ssr4vegito said:
Butterfly Aizen became a replacement ,Monster Aizen evolved into an higher existence.
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When did he become a higher existence? He got stronger sure but that doesn’t equate to higher existence. SK Yhwach > TS > Mugetsu > Dangai > Monster. The Old Man tells us that all the power Ichigo has used prior to getting TS was just a fraction of his actual power. Becoming a replacement does even necessarily mean that Butterfly = WSK, just that Butterfly is capable of maintaining the cosmology.
Ssr4vegito said:
Even if SK is weakened his state of existence doesn't change. Aizen transcemded into an even higher level. The difference would be same as Shinigami Aizen and Mullet Aizen
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He very clearly did. Losing his arms alone alters his existence, let alone everything else.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
So why assume it’s PSK when nothing supports it.
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Yes. Nothing is there on ppwerlevel. It just states Butterfly Aizen reached the same state of existence. He could be weaker , equal , stronger.


AnonymousBlank said:
When did he become a higher existence? He got stronger sure but that doesn’t equate to higher existence. SK Yhwach > TS > Mugetsu > Dangai > Monster. The Old Man tells us that all the power Ichigo has used prior to getting TS was just a fraction of his actual power. Becoming a replacement does even necessarily mean that Butterfly = WSK, just that Butterfly is capable of maintaining the cosmology.
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In the Databooks. It states Butterfly Aizen reached the state of God and became a replacement for SK. SK was a being that transcended Quincy and Shinigami and had many abilities. BA transcends Shinigami and Hollows. Monster Aizen is stated to evolve into an even higher existence , also stated to transcend everything which would include SK as well. BA Aizen and SK are true Gods , a state Hikone needs the hogyoku to reach.







AnonymousBlank said:
He very clearly did. Losing his arms alone alters his existence, let alone everything else.
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Putting a Source would be helpful.
 
Aizen later loses the power he gained but grows stronger in Muken to possibly surpassing butterfly form
 
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Ssr4vegito said:
In the Databooks. It states Butterfly Aizen reached the state of God and became a replacement for SK.
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And like I pointed out and you agreed to, this doesn’t equate him to the SK in anyway, just that he is able to perform the same feat WSK does passively while basically dead.
Ssr4vegito said:
SK was a being that transcended Quincy and Shinigami and had many abilities. BA transcends Shinigami and Hollows.
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That’s a whole lot of fluff that is irrelevant.
Ssr4vegito said:
Monster Aizen is stated to evolve into an even higher existence , also stated to transcend everything which would include SK as well. BA Aizen and SK are true Gods , a state Hikone needs the hogyoku to reach.





Click to expand...

Your first scan is irrelevant, we already agree Butterfly is supposed to be in the same ballpark as WSK.

Your second scan says he attempted to become a higher existence. Attempted being the keyword. All that says is that Monster surpasses the state of god = WSK … which every god tier does in TYBW. Even a held back TS does. No higher level of existence to WSK at all.

Third scan is contradicted by Monster literally not transcending Ichigo. At best it supports the previous scan that says he surpassed WSK.
Ssr4vegito said:
Putting a Source would be helpful.
Click to expand...
SK is from the OG universe where the concepts of life and death were fused before he split them. Nothing could die. WSK died. His existence has changed.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Your second scan says he attempted to become a higher existence. Attempted being the keyword. All that says is that Monster surpasses the state of god = WSK … which every god tier does in TYBW. Even a held back TS does. No higher level of existence to WSK at all.

Third scan is contradicted by Monster literally not transcending Ichigo. At best it supports the previous scan that says he surpassed WSK.
Click to expand...
In the first scan it states he reached similiar existence as SK. Second says he surpassd the State of God. He attempted to evolve and did gaining a new and final form form and powers said to transcend everything which means he did transcend again.

In Ichigo's case we already know he is above Aizen whereas Butterfly Aizen was stated to be in same state as SK. Aizen evolved into his final form. The transcends all part would still apply to everyone not Dangai Ichigo.








AnonymousBlank said:
SK is from the OG universe where the concepts of life and death were fused before he split them. Nothing could die. WSK died. His existence has changed
Click to expand...
The Noble ancestors were the ones who used his almighty power to split the world. Also i don't how death has to do with state of existence , doesn't it mean that when the split happened and the concept of death was created it applied to SK too. As far as i know SK transcended Quincy and Shinigami and looks like one too. Also Wasn't SK killimg hollows in the primordial world ? I'm not too knowledgable in this topic , might talk about it later after finding more info
 
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