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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Omimi said:
planets are on their own universe

that would also make earth = universe size
if so than i doubt it will ever get accepted here
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Everything is his own universe! There are infinite manifestations of everything, like the "interior world" of Ichigo, or the "mental plane" where Z fighters practice!
 
CodeCCLL said:
Zanpakutos are not Abstract Existences. Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, information,rumors,possibilities.
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Anything is the embodiement of an abstraction (and nope, I'm no idealist), the thing is, things like "a penis", are just infinitaly small manifestation of an "ideal penis" that have infinite manifestations. If you talk about "an embodiement of the "concept" of information", besides "everything" already being A MANIFESTATION of information, you surely are talking about an elevated abstraction.
We need to use more infinitely-many-valued logic and less bivalent logic!
 
Being on the same tier doesn’t means zaraki doesn’t beat Toshiro, ofc he beat him, but would still warrant him that S tier if you put peeps like shunsui in A.

Toshiro states that at full power he is able to freeze to the very bone Gerard to allow byakuya to break his body, which can’t be done unless you are relevant to him given Gerard was counter adapting his freezing, moreover was able to cut the hoffung when shikai zaraki could not, this already place him above bankai/shikai Yama. While it’s true zaraki grew stronger in CFYOW it doesn’t make sense he get million time stronger, since he already shown hint of trascendence and has better feat than Yama anyway in the TWBA.

if you don’t want to put them on the same tier:

S+ zaraki
S adult Toshiro
A shunsui etc…
 
Tyri456 said:
Being on the same tier doesn’t means zaraki doesn’t beat Toshiro, ofc he beat him, but would still warrant him that S tier if you put peeps like shunsui in A.

Toshiro states that at full power he is able to freeze to the very bone Gerard to allow byakuya to break his body, which can’t be done unless you are relevant to him given Gerard was counter adapting his freezing, moreover was able to cut the hoffung when shikai zaraki could not, this already place him above bankai/shikai Yama. While it’s true zaraki grew stronger in CFYOW it doesn’t make sense he get million time stronger, since he already shown hint of trascendence and has better feat than Yama anyway in the TWBA.

if you don’t want to put them on the same tier:

S+ zaraki
S adult Toshiro
A shunsui etc…
Click to expand...
Nah Toshiro should be S- or A+, since Shunsui did say with time he would be above him or something iirc.
 
Wild theory: Kazui can see the future through the Almighty.

What if those floating eyes are Kazui’s version of the Almighty absorbed from Yhwach’s powers?

What if Kazui isn’t opening the portals to Hell but actually seeing the future where they are opening and going there to close them up?

If you look at that ghost like guy that Kazui sent to Hell from a different perspective it kind of makes sense. That guy saying he is a “kid or teenager” when Kon says he looks like a grown up man… could it be that he was a child molester? And Kazui sent him to Hell before he could harm someone else in the future?
 
AppleLord said:
Wild theory: Kazui can see the future through the Almighty.

What if those floating eyes are Kazui’s version of the Almighty absorbed from Yhwach’s powers?

What if Kazui isn’t opening the portals to Hell but actually seeing the future where they are opening and going there to close them up?

If you look at that ghost like guy that Kazui sent to Hell from a different perspective it kind of makes sense. That guy saying he is a “kid or teenager” when Kon says he looks like a grown up man… could it be that he was a child molester? And Kazui sent him to Hell before he could harm someone else in the future?
Click to expand...

wake-up-meme.gif
 
Tyri456 said:
Being on the same tier doesn’t means zaraki doesn’t beat Toshiro, ofc he beat him, but would still warrant him that S tier if you put peeps like shunsui in A.

Toshiro states that at full power he is able to freeze to the very bone Gerard to allow byakuya to break his body, which can’t be done unless you are relevant to him given Gerard was counter adapting his freezing, moreover was able to cut the hoffung when shikai zaraki could not, this already place him above bankai/shikai Yama. While it’s true zaraki grew stronger in CFYOW it doesn’t make sense he get million time stronger, since he already shown hint of trascendence and has better feat than Yama anyway in the TWBA.

if you don’t want to put them on the same tier:

S+ zaraki
S adult Toshiro
A shunsui etc…
Click to expand...
Where did Zaraki show hint if transcendance ?
 
Ssr4vegito said:
Where did Zaraki show hint if transcendance ?
Click to expand...
it is somehow implied the very fodder shinigami can’t sense him properly After he unlocked the shikai.

I think there are some stage of transcendence,
1st level human/fodder shinigami can’t sense you,
2nd stage very strong shinigami can’t sense you,
3rd stage high/god fail to sense you

though it might be now a discarded concept it can still make sense, anyway I still have TYBWA zaraki over Yamamoto Regardless of this.
 
Tyri456 said:
it is somehow implied the very fodder shinigami can’t sense him properly After he unlocked the shikai.
Click to expand...
Another miisinterpreted thing. There isn't actually a moment where Kenpachi's reiatsu couldn't be sensed. I'll explain what happens there.
1st panel - A huge structure suddenly appears. Some shinigami woder what it is , one shinigami who was actually sensing Kenpachi's reiatsu asks others "can't you sense it ?! This (Kenpachi's) reiatsu"


2 nd page. Other Shinigami sense the reiatsu and confirms it's Zaraki


3rd page. After sensing Zaraki's reiatsu they shout "it's captain Zaraki"

From these it's clear that some of the Shinigami didn't even bother to sense the reiatsu until the one guy pointed it out and when the were notified they actually sensed it.

The whole Kenpachi's reiatsu can't be sensed thing was spread by dimwits with reading comprehension of a brick.



Tyri456 said:
I think there are some stage of transcendence,
1st level human/fodder shinigami can’t sense you,
2nd stage very strong shinigami can’t sense you,
3rd stage high/god fail to sense you
Click to expand...
The thing with transcendence doesn't have much to do with reiatsu. It's about transcending your current state and evolving to an existence even higher. Aizen explained it the whole 2D 3D stuff. Aizen transcended beyond the state of Shinigami which is why only mere Shinigami's couldn't sense him. Then he evolve beyond bkth hollow and Shinigami and became a God , then he evolved even beyond that.

Kenpachi is a mere Shinigami. He can't achieve transcendance unless he has mixed race powers or has the hogyoku. The concept wasn't discarded. CFYOW brings transcendence back as it states SK as a transcendant being. Hikone needing the hogyoku to attain God hood (the state Butterfly Aizen was in).

I p
Tyri456 said:
, anyway I still have TYBWA zaraki over Yamamoto Regardless of this.
Click to expand...
I personally wouldn't put Zaraki above Yama just because the former overpowered Yhwach's underling (Gerard) with his Bankai. Yhwach has clearly stated that he's the only one who could handle the power of Yama's bankai. Which means the other Quincy were not strong enough to handle it. So Yama >> Quincies except Yhwach.
 
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1. The whole concept of Transcendence it self is just wildly inconsistent throughout the series if we're being honest

2. CFYOW Kenpachi could definitely be argued transcendent though since Base with no eyepatch he fought a full power hikone who was beginning to break the boundary between shinigami and hollows putting him roughly on the same tier as Condom Aizen

3. Yamamoto slams TBWY Kenpachi in Bankai given Bankai Yamamoto>>>Shikai Yamamoto>>>Tokinada~Post RG Byakuya who while maybe weaker is in the same tier as TBYW Kenpachi. CFYOW Kenpachi slams Yamamoto in Base though
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
1. The whole concept of Transcendence it self is just wildly inconsistent throughout the series if we're being honest

2. CFYOW Kenpachi could definitely be argued transcendent though since Base with no eyepatch he fought a full power hikone who was beginning to break the boundary between shinigami and hollows putting him roughly on the same tier as Condom Aizen

3. Yamamoto slams TBWY Kenpachi in Bankai given Bankai Yamamoto>>>Shikai Yamamoto>>>Tokinada~Post RG Byakuya who while maybe weaker is in the same tier as TBYW Kenpachi. CFYOW Kenpachi slams Yamamoto in Base though
Click to expand...
Seems like you don't actually understand what transcendance means , it's a state of being. it's not something Kenpachi can attain naturally as he's not a hybrid. He's a Shinigami and it's not that inconsistent. Both Ichigo and Aizen lost their transcendant state at the end of Deicide , TYBW didn't even properly master his hollow powers . Soul King is the other person who is stated to be transcendant. Arguably SK Yhwach too.

Kenpachi fighting someone who was beginning to break the boundaries of Shinigami doesn't make him a transcendant being himself. He's just a Shinigami.

I agree TYBW Yama >>>> TYBW Kenpachi.
 
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