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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Damage3245 said:
Here's a fun scenario for people to brainstorm over; let's say that Ichigo asked the Vizards to help him invade Hueco Mundo and save Orihime, and they went with him, Chad and Uryu. Do you think they would have made a huge difference entering the battle from the beginning?
Click to expand...
Absolutely, Love and Rose were able to contest Res Starrk and only got KOd after Starrk used Los Lobos. I mean the Vizards seem to be consistently top 3 Espada level. However, while it would probably make it easier for Ichigo in HM, if Aizen and the Espada were able to stall enough for Kenpachi, Byakuya, Mayuri, and Unohana to enter HM, he may trap them all there. Then at that point the Espada might dominate in FKT. Although people like Yama and Bankai Shunsui could still violate the FKT Espada. I feel like a lot of battles would change, maybe some more captain deaths, but the end result of leading towards Deicide would probably still occur tbh.

Although, if Kenpachi is instead went to FKT and was able to evolve until he released his limiters (like against Unohana), he might be able to do some major damage to Aizen with Yama. But I don't think he'd have enough time, but who knows, Yachiru might release a lot of Kenny's powers if Aizen is going to straight up kill him.
 
W0NDER3X said:
Roka literally states that there's nothing else she can think of other than Mugetsu that can kill Res Cien...
Click to expand...

YukaSama4 said:
That's not what I read from the novel, iirc Cien said Starrk, Yammy and Barragan attacks are the strongest in HM if we didn't count Cien or Aizen
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
Here's a fun scenario for people to brainstorm over; let's say that Ichigo asked the Vizards to help him invade Hueco Mundo and save Orihime, and they went with him, Chad and Uryu. Do you think they would have made a huge difference entering the battle from the beginning?
Click to expand...
2nd res ulq would have ended them
 
YukaSama4 said:
That's not what I read from the novel, iirc Cien said Starrk, Yammy and Barragan attacks are the strongest in HM if we didn't count Cien or Aizen
Click to expand...
The statement isn't all inclusive. He doesn't even mention VL ichigo. Who is obviously stronger than the Espada
 
Reio35 said:
The statement isn't all inclusive. He doesn't even mention VL ichigo. Who is obviously stronger than the Espada
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VL Ichigo isn't from HM, while Aizen and others were living there, and Aizen took Barragan's place in ruling the HM.

You know that he also didn't mention Kenpachi but we know Kenpachi is stronger than Yammy, this counterarguemnt is moot tbh
 
YukaSama4 said:
VL Ichigo isn't from HM, while Aizen and others were living there, and Aizen took Barragan's place in ruling the HM.

You know that he also didn't mention Kenpachi but we know Kenpachi is stronger than Yammy, this counterarguemnt is moot tbh
Click to expand...
He said everyone that ever existed in HM. That would include VL ichigo who cien also has records of.

And no the novels confirmed fkt kenpchi's reaistu was still around Nnoittora level. Yammy didn't push kenpachi past his limits that's why he said he was boring to fight
 
Reio35 said:
And no the novels confirmed fkt kenpchi's reaistu was still around Nnoittora level. Yammy didn't push kenpachi past his limits that's why he said he was boring to fight
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do u have ss for this? never seen it
 
Arkenis said:
do u have ss for this? never seen it
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https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/809189867527208991/1015040929763168366/Screenshot_20220901-182834_YouTube.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/809189867527208991/1015040930065174528/Screenshot_20220901-182914_YouTube.jpg
 
Damage3245 said:
Here's a fun scenario for people to brainstorm over; let's say that Ichigo asked the Vizards to help him invade Hueco Mundo and save Orihime, and they went with him, Chad and Uryu. Do you think they would have made a huge difference entering the battle from the beginning?
Click to expand...

Shinji's Bankai should seal the deal

And even without it I think he may be strong enough to solo

Didn't he damage an off guard Base Aizen somewhat? WITHOUT his mask at that?
 
Let me give some thoughts on the BBS adaptation of the story:


  • The overarching theme it tackles is the journey to self-discovery, which is a very relevant theme to Bleach considering the more in tune you are with yourself the more powerful you are (ie Ichigo’s journey of acceptance of who he is)
  • Roka is a character who initially struggles with her identity, questioning if she’s really more than just Szayel’s tool, but through her interactions with Don MFing Kanonji, she decides that she wants to protect the world and live in and enjoy the world so cherished by her hero, Don ******* Kanonji. As such she decides to fight Cien 1v1, sacrificing herself while lamenting her selfish reasons for fighting, but at the end she realizes her true happiness lies with Don 🤮 Kanonji and she hangs onto to life so she can reunite with her hero. Pretty much the Bleach version of AI becoming more human. Very neat concept, holy shit the BBS adaptation does not do it justice, most scenes include her and Kanonji and they were painful to read.
  • Cien is a dude who deludes himself into believing he is Szayel but after learning the truth he goes into crisis mode, and he decides he’ll figure out who he is by absorbing the rest of Szayel. Eventually whilst doing so he engages in battle with Zaraki and learns the joy of battle, realizing what he truly wants is to fight with Zaraki, letting the Illfort part of his personality dominate (Szayel used to be a fusion of the Szayel we know and Illfort). BBS makes not that Cien has an inferiority complex in relation to who he was as Szayel, but they do a shitty job at portraying that except for Cien getting flustered at Roka looking down on him for not being Szayel, and then Cien goes “raaa I have an inferiority complex” not kidding. I think what they are going for with Cien is that his journey of self-discovery is attuning to his instincts, which ties into Zaraki, so I’ll touch on it later. Again a mid adaptation by BBS, I really wish the novel was translated cuz I’m sure Narita’s version is better (based on his prowess with CFYOW)
  • Zaraki pretty much begins his character arc that he goes on in the TYBW with his fight against Unohana. Almost to a T, Zaraki has to beat Azashiro in combat so he can truly have the title of Kenpachi passed down, and through that battle he realizes he doesn’t need to instinctually restrict himself. Sound familiar? Because that’s what he does with Unohana, fights a prior Kenpachi to truly inherit the title, and remove his limiters. Narita ninjad Kubo here, and because of that he had to backpedal on that and have Zaraki cop out with the development. I doubt the actual novel will make this better, it’s just a poor coincidence of Narita precoging Zaraki’s character arc and Kubo being like uhhhhh he isn’t supposed to reach that point yet. Zaraki’s character arc in SAFWY is so eerily similar to TYBW, I wonder if Kubo even borrowed from Narita. Because in SAFWY Zaraki has a tutoring moment akin to when he fought Gremmy, he teaches Cien inadvertently to enjoy the fight and he teaches Azashiro personally to enjoy the fight. Just goes to show how in tune with Kubo that Narita is to be able to develop a character almost exactly like how Kubo planned on.
  • Azashiro is a character who because of his past trauma believes that all Hollows should be eradicated and that the human emotion tied to Hollowfication should be erased too. This is because A) his sister was killed in a pit by a Hollow released by Shinigami after some Noble disputing and B) Aza’s emotional weakness prevented him from helping his sister. As such he’s deluded himself into thinking he needs to rid himself of emotion and dutifully eradicate all Hollows as a machine of Soul Society. Very cool concept. His character resolution ties in with Kanonji, someone who acts upon his human whims and stands up to any obstacle no matter how futile, something Aza couldn’t do in his past. Their dynamic is very similar to the Orihime/Ichigo and Ulquiorra dynamic, Aza takes interest in Kanonji because he can’t understand his humanity, and by the end Azashiro finally is shown what it means to be human through Kanonji and is reconciled. Aza goes and apologizes for his wrongdoings and imprisons himself, and lastly he finally opens up to his Zanpakuto Urozakuro. BBS portrayed him okay, gave him the best treatment of everyone. I’m sure the novel version is far superior.
  • Regarding the fight scenes, a lot of it is skipped out unfortunately, I mean they skip Zaraki and Azashiro’s final battle entirely. This leads me to believe they omitted a lot of stuff from the actual novels unfortunately.
  • Uryu exists almost as a self insert in the BBS adaptation calling out Kanonji for being annoying, which for the most part Kanonji is just the same gag from early Bleach on repeat in the BBS adaptation. Dear god I did not enjoy reading his parts in the BBS adaptation, I hope he’s written with more substance and less gag in the novel.

TLDR; I really hope VIZ localizes SAFWY because BBS absolutely did not do it justice, BBS informs you of a really cool concept for a story, and that’s about it
 
I was watching MrTommo's recent video about Cien, when I see an interesting comment that relates Szayel and his brother's past to Unit 731, could this be a disguised references?
 
Random question, but does anyone have an idea on where the new 7th anniversary Ichigo would stand in power compared to his other BBS forms?
 
I think he’s just slightly stronger than his FB Zanpakuto self, since he got some of Uryu’s Quincy power
 
Reio, do you like ulquiorra so much that you purposely left out the scans that were saying starrk and baragan respira are stronger than him?
 
Tyri456 said:
Reio, do you like ulquiorra so much that you purposely left out the scans that were saying starrk and baragan respira are stronger than him?
Click to expand...
So was vl ichigo and this doesn't address my initial argument. Cien believes aura will use ulqs power the other Espada which means ulq is more powerful

It's okay bro. Ik you ulq downplayers wanna believe so bad he's below the other Espada
 
Reio35 said:
So was vl ichigo and this doesn't address my initial argument. Cien believes aura will use ulqs power the other Espada which means ulq is more powerful

It's okay bro. Ik you ulq downplayers wanna believe so bad he's below the other Espada
Click to expand...
Only thing I have to say is Second etapa is not below other espada but it's not above others also. There is not a direct statement or anything to scale to it.

Yammy is the only one fodder in his resurreccion but many won't agree with that
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Only thing I have to say is Second etapa is not below other espada but it's not above others also. There is not a direct statement or anything to scale to it.

Yammy is the only one fodder in his resurreccion but many won't agree with that
Click to expand...

Purgy said:
Thought Reio was only untrustworthy when it came to Naruto, but can't even take his posts at face value for Bleach😞
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Cope
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015402903600648232/Screenshot_20220902-182811_Gallery.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015402331673722930/sddefault.jpg
Vl had to amp his hand just to break lanza. In a similar way to how grimmjow amps his hands.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015403412277440522/Screenshot_20220902-182920_Gallery.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015403425820839947/Screenshot_20220902-182953_Gallery.jpg
Took a point blank cero the head and lost his limbs. This means most of his body is durable enough to tank his ceros. If that isn't enough he also cutt Ichigo's horn
 
Reio35 said:
Cope
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015402903600648232/Screenshot_20220902-182811_Gallery.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015402331673722930/sddefault.jpg
Vl had to amp his hand just to break lanza. In a similar way to how grimmjow amps his hands.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015403412277440522/Screenshot_20220902-182920_Gallery.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1015403425820839947/Screenshot_20220902-182953_Gallery.jpg
Took a point blank cero the head and lost his limbs. This means most of his body is durable enough to tank his ceros. If that isn't enough he also cutt Ichigo's horn
Click to expand...
How this proves anything. No lmao if yeh ceros really hot his head then he would have destroyed like his half body. Pretty sure the aim should have off. Or Ulquiora put all of his Reatsu to tanks the cero on upper Body. Also don't forget VL Ichigo don't have any big scaling statement or anything that doens't out Ulquiora above others.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Only thing I have to say is Second etapa is not below other espada but it's not above others also. There is not a direct statement or anything to scale to it.

Yammy is the only one fodder in his resurreccion but many won't agree with that
Click to expand...
SE is verbatim stated below Yammy’s maximal Res, like it’s not debatable 💀 not only is he repeatedly stated to be the strongest, but Cien (having analyzed every fight in Hueco Mundo) states that the only power in HM that surpasses Yammy’s maximal Res is his own and Aizen’s. Then it’s heavily implied that Respira and Los Lobos > anything Ulq can do.

“But Cien said that copying Ulq’s SE would be a good idea to fight him”, no he didn’t, he posed a question to Roka, “you planned on copying Ulq or Ichigo’s transformations didn’t you”. AND THEN he says “that’s certainly your best bet, BECAUSE if you copied ICHIGO’s BERSERK TRANSFORMATION it’d be troublesome to kill you”. Notice how Cien specifically draws attention to FH Ichigo’s power, and only states that that power would be troublesome, never anything for SE Ulq.

This is further consistent because a slightly weaker Cien was stated to be on the same level as FH Ichigo by Uryu. And we know FH Ichigo can no diff SE Ulq, because we see it. The Ulq wank has got to go bruh, he’s super strong, but not the strongest.
 
Damage3245 said:
Respira isn't really an AP ability.
Click to expand...
Correct, although if you're strong enough you can simply cut through it, as Cien informs us that Kenpachi could cut through Respira.

Neither Los Lobos nor Respira would even scale to Barragan or Starrk's normal stats anyways. Barragan wears a special fit or Respira will kill him, and he does end up dying to Respira. Starrk's Los Lobos can one shot Masked Love and Rose who could previously fight Starrk in his Res.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Correct, although if you're strong enough you can simply cut through it, as Cien informs us that Kenpachi could cut through Respira.

Neither Los Lobos nor Respira would even scale to Barragan or Starrk's normal stats anyways. Barragan wears a special fit or Respira will kill him, and he does end up dying to Respira. Starrk's Los Lobos can one shot Masked Love and Rose who could previously fight Starrk in his Res.
Click to expand...
So SE Ulquiorra could still hypothetically scale above Starrk & Barragan normally.
 
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