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Toshiro couldn't beat base Yammy without Bankai.
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
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EOS Toshiro caps at Base Yamamoto tier at best no cap
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Invalid.
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She's sexy as **** I'll give her that.
Myxenete
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Harribel isn't very intriguing but she's fine for what she's supposed to be, she serves as a pretty decent foil for Toshiro's inability to let go of the past and cowardice of failing as a protector for the few things that he can say makes him who he is while being a good mediator for the water moon analogy between Aizen and Toshiro, she doesn't really have anything for her own character individually though
CodeCCLL
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Current Bleach cosmology is a Low 2C structure made up of many dimensions. (I guess)
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Cope
Invalid.
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Ngl
Any Espada beating Luppi even in Base
Man Aizen was just trolling Grimmjow by giving him that rank lmfao
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how can he cap at base Yama level when he is superior to Shikai TYBWA zaraki with no eyepatch who would one shot bankai Yamamoto?EOS Toshiro caps at Base Yamamoto tier at best no cap
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Uhhh, idk about that version being a one-shot difference above Bankai Yamamoto.....
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Considering he's comparable to Byakuya who is stated Tokinada tier and even fought him who is outright confirmed FAR below Yamamoto even in just Shikai lmfao
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That's shikai byakuya. Bankai byakuya is a different story. And I don't think adult toshiro was ever compared to to byakuya
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?
Their feats against Gerard are comparable. regardless of who you think is the stronger one the Gerard battle clearly depicts EOS Toshiro/Kenpachi and Byakuya all within the same tier at least
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Urahara had to bail him out, and no evidence that Toshiro got stronger.
Myxenete
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The only person Urahara bailed out was Rangiku, considering it's a canon fact he was training for the war agaisnt Aizen and outright better feats it's pretty clear he got stronger
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The second attack wasn't even a month before FKT iirc. And Toshiro's only feats were fighting Harribel who's only feats are fighting Toshiro.
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Gotta love people thinking Harribel getting caught by the flowers means Toshiro is >/= her in power even though she was stomping his Bankai in her base and straight up called him weaker than Apache lmao. Even landing an attack on her did nothing. Man is weaksauce and his sealing is the only thing relevant in his kit during FKT.
Uh … Toshiro got his ass one shot by Luppi and needed prep time to set up an attack that didn’t even beat Luppi, just knocked him out of Rez. Toshiro was gonna die if he didn’t luck out and fall into the trees where no one could see him (or sense cuz he is just that weak).
Myxenete
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Surely has nothing to do with him tanking and blocking her Res attacks at all
Toshiro didn't even get injured by Luppi , Luppi's arms weren't strong enough to break the ice that Toshiro held him in before he used Sennen Hyoro and a Ressureccion only comes undone when the user is near death
"(or sense cuz he is just that weak)"
Objectively not a thing in Bleach you're just making up stuff that sound somewhat plausible
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He literally doesn’t lol. He dodged her swing right after she one shot his ice clone, every time she throws water at him, he freezes or dodges it, he evaded her Cero which cut off his wing, and then he uses his ice flowers. Even after the Visoreds show up, he only throws a single ice dragon that she slaps aside alongside Masked Hiyori and Lisa’s attacks simultaneously. At no point does he scale to Harribel outside of his ice flowers.
You should reread the fight. A single arm from a casual Luppi couldn’t break his ice, right before he smashes both of Tōshirō’s wings with all of them. When do Resurrección come undone when someone is near death? You must be confusing it with Bankai cuz Nnoitra stayed in his when he was dying. Same with Yammy, Szayel, Ulq, Starrk, Harribel, Barragan, Zommari, Tesla etc. Even Cirucci’s only disappeared because of losing her soul chain and soul sleep, while Aaroniero’s exploded into green puss on the floor. Luppi didn’t have a scratch on him when he was free of the ice.
I mean … ignoring the fact that I was joking, strength for Shinigami is based on their reiatsu. Weaker = less reiatsu to sense and considering Aizen posits that since he couldn’t sense Ichigo, Ichigo exchanged his spiritual energy (where reiatsu comes from) for pure power. Obviously he was wrong that Ichigo did that but it still means that less power = harder to sense.
Myxenete
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He blocks a cascade and blatantly tanks a point blank Cero, it shaving off one of his wings doesn't mean he doesn't tank it
Grimmjow's comes undone and I ended up conflating those together but you're right, misremeberance in my part
Yammy feels Luppi's reiatsu drop and immediatly thinks he's dead and Aizen outright apologizes to Luppi for how injured he was from the mission, the only person who left that fight with no injuries was Toshiro
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He freezes the Cascada. Just reading the page will tell you the context when they are still talking about using the enemies element against them. You can’t even say that’s water falling of the ice when water and ice are coloured rather differently.
He definitely doesn’t tank a Cero when his ice is more durable than his body or else he wouldn’t bother expending the energy to block with his wings or that shield when he “blocked” the Cascada. With your logic, Toshiro’s body is tough enough to the point of no selling Rez Harribel when trying against him despite Bankai Toshiro getting harmed by base Harribel when he blatantly does block her Ola Azul. We even see his ice get sent flying close enough for it to reach Starrk.
You mean this? Yammy can’t sense for shit lmao
Aizen was mocking Luppi’s dumbass lol. Don’t even know why Luppi has that bandage over his tattoos when that spot in particular was perfectly fine when he was freed.
By all means, continue believing Toshiro scales to Luppi or Harribel outside of his sealing abilities when he fights them but the manga very clearly disagrees.
Myxenete
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Unmasked pretty blatantly just says he blocked it
Except for the fact that Luppi actually reacting to this if he took no damage is entirely nonsensical, the bandages are just there for visuals so you can tell Luppi needed some form of medical help after that battle, Luppi's anger towards Toshiro would also be nonsensical if he was "completely fine" why would he have been said to be defeated in that scenario if he was "completley fine"
Yammy has never been shown to have any issues sensing presence the only time his senses have been wrong is misgauging Ichigo's power level
By all means continue to believe that characters whose best feat against Toshiro is slightly bruising his forehead scales massively above him despite the manga proposing the idea that both Toshiro and Harribel need to gather moisture to use their strongest attacks to actually end this fight
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Um … that’s not unmasked. That’s Cien ranting in BBS.
He’s mad because he took a fat L, and Aizen is rubbing salt in the wounds that he doesn’t have.
Medical help on a spot that was unharmed? Aight. At least when Grimmjow has bandages, it’s over the places where Ichigo sandwiched him between GTs.
… because he ******* lost? I feel like you are confused on what I’m arguing here. Nobody with half a brain cell will say Luppi didn’t lose to Toshiro. I’m saying that Toshiro doesn’t scale to Luppi or Harribel in their fights outside of his sealing stuff because those, and only those, techniques actually do anything to them. In the Luppi fight, he spent a few minutes prepping his attack (assuming he recovered immediately since you are saying he ate that shit) which means it is much stronger than his normal Bankai attacks.
My guy, that is the only time Yammy has been shown to sense anything outside of noting Ulquiorra died and he sucked ass.
Do you even realise the gap between Rez Luppi and base Ulq? Ichigo’s fluctuating reiatsu during Arrancar Invasion peaked far above base Ulq’s at worst and yet Yammy couldn’t sense if he was the target. If you gonna argue someone’s sensing ability to determine if X thought Y died, pick literally anybody else besides Yammy.
When you are in your final form and block a hit from someone in their base, get launched into the dirt and are bleeding despite blocking their attack, yes. Yes, you do scale massively below them.
Nice way to misrepresent the manga lol. Toshiro said that both are waiting for more moisture to gather to guarantee a final blow, something that was neither confirmed nor denied by Harribel. That’s like taking Shawlong’s assumption of the petals disappearing to represent Toshiro’s time limit on his Bankai as fact. The only thing Harribel would need more moisture for is to have a bigger AOE to guarantee a hit on Toshiro but we already saw how that turned out when he just freezes her attacks anyway.
You also conveniently never addressed my point of Toshiro landing a hit on her and doing no damage.
But of course, acknowledging that it exists wouldn’t fit your bad take.
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Hah read the chapter again. She stomped his ice clone the real toshiro was keeping up with her and even sealed her until wonderwise broke the ice
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I already told you my scaling, didnt I? Anyway I already know you not gonna change your idea but that’s my reasoning and I don’t except you to agree anyway but:
They are not comparable at all though, Toshiro in the manga states byakuya can hit gerard only after he freeze him to the very bone, this imply byakuya CAN NOT DAMAGE AN UN-FREEZED giant Gerard like he did, thus does not scale to him, making his body easy to crumble. Toshiro in his adult form shown to overpower the miracle 2 times hax-wise, and destroy the hoffung in 1vs1 which has shikai zaraki durability.
Which means he is that powerful especially when in bleach hax are related to reiastu‘s strenght.
Byakuya prior to that never damaged gerard with senbonzakura even when Gerard was just his 1st giant form. showing shikai byakuya < base TYBWA zaraki, Meanwhile Adult Toshiro scales to Shikai Zaraki without the eyepatch.
Both adult Toshiro and Shikai zaraki are above or in tier with Ichibei by feats and scaling a lot above 6 clones gremmy, which is consistent with CFYOW. Meaning they are superior to bankai Yama.
byakuya in shikai is in tier with Tokinada, which is consistent with being < base zaraki TYBW and CFYOW and with his charged bankai he can be much higher than that though, but not quantifiable Due to Destroying Gerard body frozen to the very bone (toshiro’s words).
adult Toshiro is never compared to Tokinada.
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If you count filler arc/Toshiro movie (don’t Remeber), is stated hyorinmaru‘s true power (aka adult Toshiro shown later in the manga) can be held only by the strongest shinigami in the soul society and at that time yama existed and hyorinmaru knew him.
Hence why he search a shinigami as hosts that has that potential. I know it’s not canon, but it is not like it is made up Adult Toshiro being that strong.
Hence why he search a shinigami as hosts that has that potential. I know it’s not canon, but it is not like it is made up Adult Toshiro being that strong.
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Excellence616
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Exaggerations
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Malekith
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About yammi, feeling ichigo or not shouldn't even be counted, his Research is the worst among swords.
In cyfow I say that both are slightly below Ichibei. Bankai yama standing below them makes me get some chills personally.
Bankai Yama<=Adult toshiro ~ Shikai Zaraki<Gerad 1 form~Ichibei<Gerad 2 form.
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Wtf is this, Byakuya and Toshiro are below even the Likes of Shikai Yamamoto. Not even Shunsui is at that level yet.Cfyow makes it clear that all the Royal heads of the Family are pretty much equal in terms of Reiatsu. Where Toshiro scales is probably below Byakuya, refer to Shunsui saying Toshiro needs another 100years to catch up,it also could be more.Shunsui has a tendency to put himself down in terms of skill or power.
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Just saw a very interesting video on how Ichigo is using the False name of his Zanpakuto,bcs the name is still inked out by Ichibei.
In the middle of the final episode we see the Info screen where the Zanpakuto Name is still inked out and how the Kanji dont match the Name Zangetsu if you look close enough.
Maybe everytime “i am not Zangetsu“ is said its meant in that way,as in thats not my name.
omz was surprised that Ichigo didnt know his name when he entered his mindscape for the first time and that he couldnt hear his name when he told him and assumed the reason was Fear not aware of Ichibei blacking out the name and making it so Ichigo cant hear it.
In the middle of the final episode we see the Info screen where the Zanpakuto Name is still inked out and how the Kanji dont match the Name Zangetsu if you look close enough.
Maybe everytime “i am not Zangetsu“ is said its meant in that way,as in thats not my name.
omz was surprised that Ichigo didnt know his name when he entered his mindscape for the first time and that he couldnt hear his name when he told him and assumed the reason was Fear not aware of Ichibei blacking out the name and making it so Ichigo cant hear it.
