BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[AppleLord]

Link, Quotes or even chapter ? Anything would be fine.
I want to read it again.
For all we know now Almighty has control over future. If it has aspect of creation too then it would be even stronger.
I can't remember reading it. Maybe I missed it since I was reading the translation.

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[Arc7Kuroi]

Out of curiosity, does any have or know where to find raws for CFYOW V3?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Via buying it

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Via buying it

Lame, might have to do that then

 

[Maxnumb231]

when it comes to raw power Prime yamamoto was definitely stronger than he was in in TYBW arc. It was also stated that Prime Yama beat Yhwach with almighty back in the past as well.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

when it comes to raw power Prime yamamoto was definitely stronger than he was in in TYBW arc. It was also stated that Prime Yama beat Yhwach with almighty back in the past as well.

It was never stated he had the A back then, idk where u got that from

Even squad 0 who state they have all the Intel from that fight had no idea he had the A

Also yes, when it comes to power yama was stronger on the present but he became softer which to Y.H it made him weaker

 

[Maxnumb231]

It was never stated he had the A back then, idk where u got that from

Even squad 0 who state they have all the Intel from that fight had no idea he had the A

Also yes, when it comes to power yama was stronger on the present but he became softer which to Y.H it made him weaker

it was completely stated that he did, in fact when Yhwach invaded the soul society a thousand years ago he was implied to have it due to how long it takes for yhwach's power (Almighty) to return which is 1000 years.

0 squad also was never in that fight with yhwach back then, we can't be sure if they would get an intel on some other squad members when Yhwach fought Yama himself back then.

as I said Prime Yama is stronger back then than he is in TYBW based of what I said, and yes that would include during the whole 1000 years of peace he was not neglected on being able to have the same state of mind he did back then.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

it was completely stated that he did, in fact when Yhwach invaded the soul society a thousand years ago he was implied to have it due to how long it takes for yhwach's power (Almighty) to return which is 1000 years.

0 squad also was never in that fight with yhwach back then, we can't be sure if they would get an intel on some other squad members when Yhwach fought Yama himself back then.

as I said Prime Yama is stronger back then than he is in TYBW based of what I said, and yes that would include during the whole 1000 years of peace he was not neglected on being able to have the same state of mind he did back then.

It was not stated, also it would have not made sense that yama defeated him in that case due to the BS power of the A, also that's is not proff of him having it during that fight

They straight up say the intel they have on Y.H is from the fight he had with yamaji 1k years ago + the recent one with the fake and yet they had no idea about the A

1. His bankai became stronger after that fight as he even states it, be became weaker cus he lost 1 arm and even then he was stronger than any other captain, Y.H straight up says that due to peace and him becoming softer he became weaker in his eyes

 

[Maxnumb231]

It was not stated, also it would have not made sense that yama defeated him in that case due to the BS power of the A, also that's is not proff of him having it during that fight

They straight up say the intel they have on Y.H is from the fight he had with yamaji 1k years ago + the recent one with the fake and yet they had no idea about the A

1. His bankai became stronger after that fight as he even states it, be became weaker cus he lost 1 arm and even then he was stronger than any other captain, Y.H straight up says that due to peace and him becoming softer he became weaker in his eyes

It was completely explained hashwalth how he regain everything after being sealed 1000 years ago with all 900 of regainign his pulse, 90 more regaining his intellect and 9 more years of power hunger which he kept his eyes closed and then he regained his full power. This is literally 1000 years of Yhwach post the great war with the soul society.

Yes they have infos on his power when Yamamoto fought yhwach but that literally means Yamamoto did not completely told everything to the 0 squad about all what happened during the battle.


When it comes to his bankai it was completely stated by him that back then he did not display the true power of his bankai back then.

 

[Zoro21043]

even if yama defeated all mighty yhwach there is no evidence the all mighty was as strong as it is rn
and the all mighty can be weaker depending on the user like we saw haswalth not being as op as yhwach and he couldnt see everything https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0661-008.png
so it can be like how tokinadas's kyoka suigetsu or ryujin jaka is inferior to yama and aizens due to him having less spiritual energy

 

[Ovrhide]

it’s obvious he didn’t have the almighty back then. ichibe would’ve known about it if that was the case.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

It was completely explained hashwalth how he regain everything after being sealed 1000 years ago with all 900 of regainign his pulse, 90 more regaining his intellect and 9 more years of power hunger which he kept his eyes closed and then he regained his full power. This is literally 1000 years of Yhwach post the great war with the soul society.

Yes they have infos on his power when Yamamoto fought yhwach but that literally means Yamamoto did not completely told everything to the 0 squad about all what happened during the battle.


When it comes to his bankai it was completely stated by him that back then he did not display the true power of his bankai back then.

That's the legend and still does not prove he used vs yama

And why would he do that? That's a speculation in order to find fault with things that have been stated and not contradicted

Yamaji says that his bankai is not the same as it was that long ago, meaning he became even better with it and even the fake which had the memories of Y.H states that the bankai is compleatly different from what it was

 

[Makstar05]

Conceptual Manipulation for Mimihagi coz of governing “Stagnation”???He stagnated Ukitake’s weakness for a long period of time and then even stagnated the collapse of the 3 worlds.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

it’s obvious he didn’t have the almighty back then. ichibe would’ve known about it if that was the case.

Lmao he has the triple pupils in the flashback with Jugo and Bazz, so yes he had some form of the Almighty back then, likely no where near the level of hax that he displayed in the TYBW tho.

Using Jugram as counter evidence to say the Almighty is weaker depending on who uses it doesn't work either. Jugo gets his scaling from no diffing Bazz and Uryu, in fact the only time Jugo is damaged is when Uryu uses the antithesis to transfer wounds. So the matter of fact is this, Jugo is some indeterminable amount stronger than Bazz or Uryu. The only reason he didn't oneshot Uryu was because he was questioning his life choices neglecting Bazz and all that, as seen by the dialogue between the two.

That being said, unless we get something from Kubo showing us how the original Yhwach vs Yama went down there is no way to know how Yama beat Yhwach.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Yama obviously beat Yhawch by burning his Mustache
Yhawch's Mustache = Ichigo's Shihakushō

 

[Zoro21043]

@Arc7Kuroi https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0661-008.png
its implied his allmighty is weaker tho
and as i previously mentioned it wont make sense for yhwach with allmighty to lose against yama if you claim he is equal to the current yhwach we saw against ichibei
what is stopping him from breaking yamas zanpakuto like he did to ichigo?

 

[Ovrhide]

@Arc7Kuroi https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0661-008.png
its implied his allmighty is weaker tho
and as i previously mentioned it wont make sense for yhwach with allmighty to lose against yama if you claim he is equal to the current yhwach we saw against ichibei
what is stopping him from breaking yamas zanpakuto like he did to ichigo?

Exactly this. There’s pretty much nothing Yama could’ve done if his almighty (which he likely didn’t have) was as broken as it was shown.

dude would have instantly shattered yamas bankai Otherwise. would be stupid otherwise.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Kubo is also known for his drawing inconsistencies a good example is like he forgot that kyoraku lost 1 eye

 

[Purgy]

Has this ever been brought up before? Ichibe literally covered Yhwach's "speech bubble" with his ink, shouldn't this be Plot Manipulation? At the very least a limited version?

 

[W0NDER3X]

That was indeed brought up, its supposedly just text manipulation, although im not entirely sure about that.

 

[Damage3245]

I think that's just Kubo being artistic with the censoring Yhwach's swords name which has been erased as a result of having ink on it.

Extremely doubtful that it is any kind of plot manipulation or even 4th wall interaction.

 

[Purgy]

I mean, looking at it objectively, that is literally plot manipulation

Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot itself. Examples include altering the plot, creating/destroying stories, changing speech bubbles, changing the setting, etc. It is a variation of Reality Warping.

saying that's just an artistic choice is baseless, from what we see there he's affecting the text

@W0NDER3X I might be wrong but I don't think Text Manipulation covers changing text from a manga you reside in, and plot manipulation literally mentions changing speech bubbles.

 

[Ovy7]

Uh, I never noticed that till now. Talking about that, he also took black from where we know there isn't any, like Urahara's hat which is green, not black. It's only black in the non-colored chapters, which means he actually has some shot of 4th wall/plot manip (because in a manga everything is drawn as black and white).

 

[Purgy]

@Ovy7 Not that I don't believe you, but that image is a dead link, at least for me.

 

[W0NDER3X]

@W0NDER3X I might be wrong but I don't think Text Manipulation covers changing text from a manga you reside in, and plot manipulation literally mentions changing speech bubbles.

I know, thats why i said that im not sure about it being text manipulation. In fact, i dont see this fitting any of the types of text manipulation.

 

[Purgy]

Yes it doesn't seem like Text Manipulation to me either, though being honest, the Text Manipulation page is kinda worded in a confusing way, so it might be.

 

[W0NDER3X]

Uh, I never noticed that till now. Talking about that, he also took black from where we know there isn't any, like Urahara's hat which is green, not black. It's only black in the non-colored chapters, which means he actually has some shot of 4th wall/plot manip (because in a manga everything is drawn as black and white).

There is no picture in there, but that sounds very interesting.

 

[Damage3245]

If changing speech bubbles is all that his usage of "Plot Manipulation" is limited to then it is a pretty useless ability and I don't mind either way.

 

[Ovy7]

@Ovy7 Not that I don't believe you, but that image is a dead link, at least for me.

Which link? (there are 2)
Tho, here there are:

Spoiler

 

[Purgy]

Interesting, so if we say he did actually take it from the manga since Kisuke's hat is officially green and white, then that would further support the idea that he has Plot Manipulation ontop of changing Yhwach's speech bubble.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Exactly this. There’s pretty much nothing Yama could’ve done if his almighty (which he likely didn’t have) was as broken as it was shown.

dude would have instantly shattered yamas bankai Otherwise. would be stupid otherwise.

Yhwach had the Almighty eyes consistently throughout the flashback, Yhwach even implies through dialogue he can see the future in the flashback, I don't know what you don't understand. Do you want scans for proof or what?

 

[Tyri456]

Uh, I never noticed that till now. Talking about that, he also took black from where we know there isn't any, like Urahara's hat which is green, not black. It's only black in the non-colored chapters, which means he actually has some shot of 4th wall/plot manip (because in a manga everything is drawn as black and white).

This is an interesting observation tho.
I think it should be discussed.

 

[Damage3245]

Yhwach had the Almighty eyes consistently throughout the flashback, Yhwach even implies through dialogue he can see the future in the flashback, I don't know what you don't understand. Do you want scans for proof or what?

Again though, that isn't proof of Yhwach using the Almighty against Yamamoto. He could have had it turned off.

 

[Purgy]

Not to say I agree with Yamamoto scaling to Almighty Yhwach, but why would Yhwach just have it turned off against Yamamoto?

 

[Zoro21043]

https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0625-012.png would this give yoruichi breaking the 4th wall or sth as she knows the panel changed

 

[Purgy]

Seems more like a gag but I'm not sure if that means the feat is unusable, I think at most it would be limited breaking the fourth wall.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Again though, that isn't proof of Yhwach using the Almighty against Yamamoto. He could have had it turned off.

Never said it was, was just commenting on the idea of Yhwach not having the Almighty back then being simply incorrect.

 

[Damage3245]

Not to say I agree with Yamamoto scaling to Almighty Yhwach, but why would Yhwach just have it turned off against Yamamoto?

Yhwach is quite arrogant. There are plenty of cases in fiction where characters should be using certain abilities or methods to win but they don't for some reason or another.

Yhwach started the fight against Ichigo not using the Almighty even though it would have been better just to activate it from the beginning.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Did Shunsui hold back against Stark?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Did Shunsui hold back against Stark?

In the sense that he didn't use his Bankai yeah. I wouldn't say he held back his Shikai's power though, as he displayed a fairly steeled resolve to defeat Starrk.