BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Zoro21043]

if we ignore the statements from cfyow about him wanting to undo
and based on the things i said above would it give the same interpretation or is there a flaw?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I was just stating that if the novels state that it would basically make it 100% official and confirmed

 

[M11UTD]

We already got statements about destroying the Garganta in the manga

 

[Purgy]

Garganta is essentially just a void though, and it's size isn't really known.

 

[Damage3245]

This is why the upper tiers are such a headache.

 

[Zoro21043]

Garganta is essentially just a void though, and it's size isn't really known.

it envelopes everything tho so destroying it = destroying everything in bleach
based on whats accepted rn that would be at least 4A

 

[HST_Master]

What about the Story Arcs? Like most of the Society Hopping visits (Ya know...Desert Society, Orient, Cacao, Steampunk or whatever)

Same boat as the Hogyoku Espada. Even though a majority are entirely separate characters like Spirit Society Rukia but I digress

 

[AppleLord]

Can we give Yhwach resistance to Jikanteishi? (時間停止, Temporal Stasis; Viz "Time Suspension") Afar from never used against him, whatever Yhwach sees in the future is null and becomes his ally. He also haves knowledge from both times it was used by Tessai in Soul Society. The Quincy were monitoring the Shinigami's powers and abilities for a 1,000 years before the invasion. Urahara and Tessai were both able to move inside the time stopped area. Reio would get space-time creation from Dangai, right? Would that mean Reio existed outside of space-time?

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; we're not just going to give Yhwach resistance to every ability in the Bleach verse on the basis of "Yhwach has power null".

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord; we're not just going to give Yhwach resistance to every ability in the Bleach verse on the basis of "Yhwach has power null".

Not because he has power null. He has the knowledge of every ability used in Soul Society for the last 1,000 years in verse. Tessai and Urahara were able to move in stopped time both times the kido was used. The kido was deemed useless against Yhwach the moment it was not in Urahara's 1,000 plans against Yhwach. He can negate hax from the future, and makes it his ally. Yhwach already has Time stop knowledge from his own series. Specially, since the Quincy watched them all for 1,000 years under Soul Society's shadow. Observing their every move before even trying to go for an invasion. The time stop ability was only used twice in the entire series and it was in the Seireitei above the Wandenreich's shadow.

 

[Damage3245]

> The kido was deemed useless against Yhwach the moment it was not in Urahara's 1,000 plans against Yhwach.

Wow, you know all of Urahara's 1,000 plans against Yhwach?

 

[Zoro21043]

that kido should be useless against yhwach
as it probably wont even work on pre war aizen as urahara didnt use it against him
and ichibei named everything so he knows all kidos and didnt use it against pre all mighty yhwach so it would never work on all mighty yhwach

 

[Damage3245]

that kido should be useless against yhwach
as it probably wont even work on pre war aizen as urahara didnt use it against him
and ichibei named everything so he knows all kidos and didnt use it against pre all mighty yhwach so it would never work on all mighty yhwach

We can't say a character has a resistance to an ability just because another character didn't use that ability against them.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Damage is right.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

There is also the posibility that the kido spell only targets what the caster wants to target.

 

[Zoro21043]

if it was a random character not using it fine
but urahara has been established to be someone who would plan for many scenarios and all possibilities he can think of
and the fact that he didnt even try using that kido should mean it wouldnt have worked on aizen in fkt

 

[Damage3245]

if it was a random character not using it fine
but urahara has been established to be someone who would plan for many scenarios and all possibilities he can think of
and the fact that he didnt even try using that kido should mean it wouldnt have worked on aizen in fkt

He already had a plan against Aizen. One which ended up working funnily enough. So maybe he just didn't use it because he didn't need to.

 

[Zoro21043]

yes thats possible
nvm then

 

[AppleLord]

Yhwach still knows of the kido in the story, from the intel gathered for a 1,000 years to explore and counter the shinigami’s powers and tactics before the invasion. According to himself, an ability that he knows of wouldn't work against anymore because of the Almighty.

 

[HST_Master]

But then that's just a usual practice of his Almighty's Power Null.

 

[Zoro21043]

he is already given resistance to conceptual manip type 3 for that so this can be added too

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Garganta is essentially just a void though, and it's size isn't really known.

If Mugen is accepted infinite then it would make destroying Garganta a Low 2-C feat; so, a lot hinges on if Mugen is actually infinite.

About the whole Yhwach merging stuff, it was never stated or implied that Yhwach was merging planets, it was always supposed to be Yhwach merging the realms. Now that I think about it I don’t really know why vsbw used planets for merging. Especially when we know Yhwach is going to destroy the Garganta which houses the realms so it’d only be logical that Yhwach merging was referring to the realms.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; do you really want to open up the possibilities of Yamamoto being Low 2-C? You yourself argued that the Almighty makes you capable of sustaining the realms, and that Bankai Yama was supposedly able to defeat Yhwach who had the Almighty.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Didn't Yhwach not have/use the Almighty when he fought Yamamoto?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

@Arc7Kuroi; do you really want to open up the possibilities of Yamamoto being Low 2-C? You yourself argued that the Almighty makes you capable of sustaining the realms, and that Bankai Yama was supposedly able to defeat Yhwach who had the Almighty.

Why would yama be tier 2? At most he would be tier 5 for having the power of destroying the planet.

Also for all we have seen he did not have the A at that time given that even ichibe which had knowledge of the first battle of yama and Y.H never knew of the A

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Didn't Yhwach not have/use the Almighty when he fought Yamamoto?

For all we have seen he did not have it/use it

 

[Maxnumb231]

I heard bleach are gonna have big revision Pog?

 

[Zoro21043]

the argument for past yhwach = present yhwach arc brought up i still disagree with
cuz there is no way yhwach would lose if 1000 yrs ago yhwach was equal to the one we see
as the allmighty would let him just destroy yamas bankai through the future like he did to ichigos

plus yama states that his bankai has evolved and isnt the same as it used to so it got more abilities as fake yhwach says this https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0507-002.png
and this ability is far inferior to what we saw
that argument is flawed

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

the argument for past yhwach = present yhwach arc brought up i still disagree with
cuz there is no way yhwach would lose if 1000 yrs ago yhwach was equal to the one we see
as the allmighty would let him just destroy yamas bankai through the future like he did to ichigos

plus yama states that his bankai has evolved and isnt the same as it used to so it got more abilities as fake yhwach says this https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0507-002.png
and this ability is far inferior to what we saw
that argument is flawed

There is also the fact that squad 0 states many times that they have the intel from that fight and had no idea he had the A.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I heard bleach are gonna have big revision Pog?

Ye, the novels are being officially translated

 

[Maxnumb231]

an upgrade or a downgrade? Pog?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

an upgrade or a downgrade? Pog?

Upgrade and more cleaning

 

[Omimi]

If Mugen is accepted as infinite that means the realm of Soul Society is infinite (this is the conclusion reached after I posted on the Q&A boards regarding this). Since World of the Living is a parallel realm to Soul Society it would also have to logically be infinite (not hard to believe seeing how it's based in our real life universe which is potentially infinite), but this doesn't matter for the rest of what I am about to say.

We have statements from Isshin that the Dangai exists in a separate spacetime from SS, seeing how Dangai exists in Garganta, that means Garganta is a separate spacetime than SS. Since Garganta is a separate spacetime containing infinite 3D universes, destroying Garganta would be Low 2-C (this was the conclusion reached at the Q&A board as well). Being that Yhwach was going to destroy the Garganta (as per multiple statements in the series) that would make the God Tiers all Low 2-C.

At bare minimum, though, if Mugen is accepted infinite, Yhwach stopped it's shaking so at least High 3-A God Tiers.+

Memories of Nobody showed us that World of the Living means earth not universe and SS is same size as earth

if u guys still want to use Memories of Nobody than rip tiar 3 SK

Bleach: The Valley of Screams, Blanks and Senna

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Memories of Nobody showed us that World of the Living means earth not universe and SS is same size as earth

if u guys still want to use Memories of Nobody than rip tiar 3 SK

Bleach: The Valley of Screams, Blanks and Senna

vsbattles.fandom.com

This relevant how? We already know the size of earth and that the SS are the same planet size, does not discard the fact that muken/mugen is stated to be infinite and if the translation are correct the planets are on their own universe etc. So tier 3/2 is still there

 

[Omimi]

planets are on their own universe

that would also make earth = universe size
if so than i doubt it will ever get accepted here

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

planets are on their own universe

that would also make earth = universe size
if so than i doubt it will ever get accepted here

......what are u even talking about????


There was at the start a single universe and the planet was inside that universe and the SK separated that universe to make 2, one were kishin (matter) was the only thing on 1 and reishi (spiritual matter) on the other

Where are u getting earth = universe?

 

[Zoro21043]

memories of nobody is contradicting what we saw in the manga
as we saw many stars
and manga is more reliable

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The movie isn’t contradicting the manga, that fella just doesn’t understand what he’s looking at there.

The living world is our reality. It’s not a specific planet or anything of the sorts.

The soul society is the spirit world and the opposite of our reality and completely composed exclusively of spiritual matter.

Kisuke even explains in that movie how the universe is split into the real world and the spiritual world. I’ll never understand how people come to the conclusion the realm itself is a single planet floating in some void.

Here he explains.

 

[Purgy]

Could've sworn Omimi already brought that argument up before and Sigurd debunked it in the old wiki. Dunno why he's still tryna use that.

 

[Ovy7]