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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Reio35 said:
The cannon doesn't enhance their attacks they just pour their kido into it
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"doesn't enhance their attacks"

It could or it couldn't, we have to take an agnostic stance here as there's no evidence for either side. I'm inclined to believe that it likely did as it's focusing all of that energy into a single point and it took 5 minutes to charge IIRC. Any shinigami can shoot out kidos in seconds.

condensed spirit energy >> uncondensed spirit energy
 
Rebirth said:
"doesn't enhance their attacks"

It could or it couldn't, we have to take an agnostic stance here as there's no evidence for either side. I'm inclined to believe that it likely did as it's focusing all of that energy into a single point and it took 5 minutes to charge IIRC. Any shinigami can shoot out kidos in seconds.

condensed spirit energy >> uncondensed spirit energy
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That's what im saying it condensed it all their power into. It's still the power of 100+ shimigami into one attack
 
Reio35 said:
Not far fetched when you consider 100+ low level shimigami from the kido corpse can nuke a large star size realm.
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I am just fine with captains getting continental to multi continental scaling by Sokyoku. Any way Ichigo tanked it and Byakuya was relative to him.
 
Normal soul reapers are 4D because they cant be sensed by humans and humans cant interact with them, this is supported by the fact that normal soul reapers were going to destroy VoS using the Kido cannon, supported also by the fact that Ichigo was at least low 2C in the SS arc because he stopped the Sokyoku that can destroy SS which = WoTL in size.

Transcendent Aizen is 5D and FGT Ichigo is 6D, Prime Reio is possibly above dimensions because he was so close to omnipotence according to Ichibe.
 
YukaSama4 said:
Normal soul reapers are 4D because they cant be sensed by humans and humans cant interact with them, this is supported by the fact that normal soul reapers were going to destroy VoS using the Kido cannon, supported also by the fact that Ichigo was at least low 2C in the SS arc because he stopped the Sokyoku that can destroy SS which = WoTL in size.

Transcendent Aizen is 5D and FGT Ichigo is 6D, Prime Reio is possibly above dimensions because he was so close to omnipotence according to Ichibe.
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What brought this on 🌝
 
Yomi_Schwarz said:
@Arc7Kuroi @AppleLord @AnonymousBlank (and many other bleach fans i'm too lazy to mention)

Thoughts on this post?
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Honestly, it's not necessary to go through all this headache to prove that the KS is better than a comum Genjutsu, it's easy to prove it with simple 2 arguments.

1° The entire cast of Bleach has Reikaku, a kind of sixth sense, which gives them resistance to illusions and conventional manipulation of the senses. And yet KS affects everyone, that is, it affects sixth senses.

2° This point in particular, I never got to see anyone comment. The Sung-Sun has an ability called Muda, which according to her blocks the sensory ability of enemies, making it unnoticeable.

Muda Description: The technique works through a combination of optic camouflage and a barrier of Reiatsu, to escape the enemy and blocks sensory abilities. Despite Sung-Sun's claim that Muda makes it impossible to detect those hidden by it. (chapter 493)

As described, in addition to optical camouflage, the skill also involves using a Reatsu barrier to completely trick the enemy's perception, ie, trick his Reikaku (Shunsui later used something similar to trick Lillie). But even so Quilge manages to find her without difficulty, which means he has resistance to manipulation of senses, including sixth sense.

After Quilge dies, all of his abilities return to Yhwach, this naturally includes this supposed Resistance to Sense Manipulation and even then KS still affects Yhwach. In other words, KS is above the resistance base.
 
Khaostichny said:
Honestly, it's not necessary to go through all this headache to prove that the KS is better than a comum Genjutsu, it's easy to prove it with simple 2 arguments.

1° The entire cast of Bleach has Reikaku, a kind of sixth sense, which gives them resistance to illusions and conventional manipulation of the senses. And yet KS affects everyone, that is, it affects sixth senses.

2° This point in particular, I never got to see anyone comment. The Sung-Sun has an ability called Muda, which according to her blocks the sensory ability of enemies, making it unnoticeable.

Muda Description: The technique works through a combination of optic camouflage and a barrier of Reiatsu, to escape the enemy and blocks sensory abilities. Despite Sung-Sun's claim that Muda makes it impossible to detect those hidden by it. (chapter 493)

As described, in addition to optical camouflage, the skill also involves using a Reatsu barrier to completely trick the enemy's perception, ie, trick his Reikaku (Shunsui later used something similar to trick Lillie). But even so Quilge manages to find her without difficulty, which means he has resistance to manipulation of senses, including sixth sense.

After Quilge dies, all of his abilities return to Yhwach, this naturally includes this supposed Resistance to Sense Manipulation and even then KS still affects Yhwach. In other words, KS is above the resistance base.
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Damn. I actually never heard anyone make that argument before (let alone remember the name of a fracciones lol). Gud stuff.
 
I need to re-read CFYOW so i won't create the list them yet but i'll do one for TYBW (These placements can also change since these are just my thoughts at the moment)

1 Yamamoto

2 Toshiro

3 Kenpachi

4 Byakuya

5 Jushiro (Mimihagi Enhanced)

6 Mayuri

7 Shunsui

8 Unohana

9 Human Komamura

10 Kensei

11 Sui-Feng

12 Rose

13 Shinji
 
Deceived said:
I need to re-read CFYOW so i won't create the list them yet but i'll do one for TYBW (These placements can also change since these are just my thoughts at the moment)

1 Yamamoto

2 Toshiro

3 Kenpachi

4 Byakuya

5 Jushiro (Mimihagi Enhanced)

6 Mayuri

7 Shunsui

8 Unohana

9 Human Komamura

10 Kensei

11 Sui-Feng

12 Rose

13 Shinji
Click to expand...
Hmm...is this ranking based on hax and abilities? Canon? Amount of reiatsu? Who beats who?

I can see some contention on this list (ex. Placement of 2,3 and 4 as well as 7 and 8 being lower than expected)
 
Yomi_Schwarz said:
Hmm...is this ranking based on hax and abilities? Canon? Amount of reiatsu? Who beats who?

I can see some contention on this list (ex. Placement of 2,3 and 4 as well as 7 and 8 being lower than expected)
Click to expand...
Purely Power/Reiatsu.

Can you explain more in-depth about these contentions?.
 
Yomi_Schwarz said:
Oh it's nothing serious lmao.

Maybe it's just a part of me that's reluctant to acknowledge the abilities of 2 ( if he's not matured) and 4.
Click to expand...
For Toshiro's placement it is his Matured Form and why are you reluctant to acknowledge Byakuya's Power? He has really good scaling within TYBW that puts him above most of the Captains in said arc.
 
Deceived said:
why are you reluctant to acknowledge Byakuya's Power? He has really good scaling within TYBW that puts him above most of the Captains in said arc.
Click to expand...
Above a captain commander shunsui and unohana tho? 🤔

EDIT: I understand an almost featless character like unohana, but i need some elaboration on shunsui.
 
Yomi_Schwarz said:
Above a captain commander shunsui and unohana tho? 🤔

EDIT: I understand an almost featless character like unohana, but i need some elaboration on shunsui.
Click to expand...
Yeah, He's able to damage people like Gerard after he was amped via the Miracle by Bankai Kenpachi and Byakuya himself. This would put him above people like Shunsui who's main scaling is from someone that entirely relies on Hax's and has literally no AP scaling that puts him on the level to even Base Patched Kenpachi (Post-Unohana fight)
 
Hmm before this i honestly thought the TYBW ranking goes something like this.

1. Yama
2. Shunsui
3. Ken/Toshiro/Byakuya
4. Unohana (Interchangeable with 3)
5. Mayuri
6. Ukitake (Mimihagi possessed)
7. Komamura (Immortal)
8. Kensei
9. Sui Feng
10. Rose
11 Shinji

Guess not.
 
Deceived said:
I need to re-read CFYOW so i won't create the list them yet but i'll do one for TYBW (These placements can also change since these are just my thoughts at the moment)

1 Yamamoto

2 Toshiro

3 Kenpachi

4 Byakuya

5 Jushiro (Mimihagi Enhanced)

6 Mayuri

7 Shunsui

8 Unohana

9 Human Komamura

10 Kensei

11 Sui-Feng

12 Rose

13 Shinji
Click to expand...
I usually don't put Ukitake, but it's okay to put him if we are comparing Reiatsu only, however Ukitake cant use all of his Reiatsu in fighting so I would still not include him.

but overall I would share an opinion that is similar to this list, maybe I will put Unohana above Shunsui as she has some crazy statements pre TYBW, not interested in the Visords (doesn't mean I say they are weak, but just too lazy to think about their scaling as I usually argue top 20 between all characters and I don't remember myself putting them on the list lmao)
 
Ok guess is will drop mine, including both CFYOW and TYBW scaling


1 - zaraki
2 - yamamoto
3 - mayuri
4 - shunsui
5 - byakuya
6 - unohana
7 - toshiro( adult would be way higher , but anyone above can kill him before he reaches that state )
8 - ukitake ( he is supposed to be equal to shunsui but lacks so i put him here, i also think shunsui got stronger after ukitake's death so there is that )
9 - human komamura
10 - kensei
11 - rukia ( probrably the most controversial thing on the list, but i think she is too haxed to be lower, she also scales to as nodt who i consider one of the strongest non-elite sternritter, maybe i am biased but that is it )
12 - sui feng
13 - rose
14 - shinji
15/16: the two who nobody cares about
 
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