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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
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u can just use the manga one
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u are just a hater
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rangiku is not allowed to have good scaling
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Rangiku would had been a Shinigami with Fullbringer abilities. Nothing more. Her powers would have come from something Gin will give her, as in this timeline, Gin doesn’t have a motive to go after Aizen. They would however joined the Shinō academy later on. Their spiritual energy would lead to hunger and joining the reapers. Rangiku’s powers would be he ability to grant powers to others, as Urahara’s Hogyōku was the only one that could break the boundaries by Hollification at the moment. Aizen’s Hogyōku (Nail) was fused into Urahara’s Hogyōku later on.
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The nail has the power to control the boundary between races like hollow soul reapers. Probably wouldn't make her transcendent.
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EldemadeDityjon
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Nah i needed novel one. Manga one many people disagrees with.
EldemadeDityjon
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Which statement
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DeathBattle Q&A, Madara vs Aizen
Q. Didn't you forget about the Hogyoku's Evolution?
A. Its too vaguely used, so it was used as a power boost essentially. He also mentions wood clones could use Izanagi.
2.
Q. Couldn't Aizen regenerate from soul erasure thanks to Yamma's Bankai having Existence Erasure
A. Researcher disagrees since it lacks supporting evidence, calls the EE properties just anime hype
3.
Q. Why aren't you using current arc Aizen?
A. Animation purposes, the Aizen arc look was better for the animation
4.
Q. Why can TSO's kill spirits when it just null's Ninjutsu
A. For verse equalization purposes, it null's regeneration, but Chakra and Spiritual Pressure had enough overlap to justify it.
4.5
Q. How does Genjutsu work on Aizen?
A. Verse Equalization; it wouldn't make sense to nerf Madara unnecessarily
5.
Q. Isn't Aizen Uni?
A. Both have uni arguments, Naruto less so but Bleach is too contextual to consider useable.
Q. Didn't you forget about the Hogyoku's Evolution?
A. Its too vaguely used, so it was used as a power boost essentially. He also mentions wood clones could use Izanagi.
2.
Q. Couldn't Aizen regenerate from soul erasure thanks to Yamma's Bankai having Existence Erasure
A. Researcher disagrees since it lacks supporting evidence, calls the EE properties just anime hype
3.
Q. Why aren't you using current arc Aizen?
A. Animation purposes, the Aizen arc look was better for the animation
4.
Q. Why can TSO's kill spirits when it just null's Ninjutsu
A. For verse equalization purposes, it null's regeneration, but Chakra and Spiritual Pressure had enough overlap to justify it.
4.5
Q. How does Genjutsu work on Aizen?
A. Verse Equalization; it wouldn't make sense to nerf Madara unnecessarily
5.
Q. Isn't Aizen Uni?
A. Both have uni arguments, Naruto less so but Bleach is too contextual to consider useable.
EldemadeDityjon
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Hey guys anyone know which chapter is this
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- Thread starter
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EldemadeDityjon
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Thanks
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Thy said the Hogyōku had vague statements and no feats of evolving Aizen to resist hax. Only strength and speed to match Ichigo. Madara is able to use Wood Clones that can all use Susano’o as Madara stated when he mocked the Hokage that if they wanted his 25 clones to use Susano’o to make the fight fair. Izanagi was stated to be better than the Hogyōku in reality warping. Madara can be use Izanagi endlessly since he can use his unlimited clones to pay they eye sacrifice instead of him. Eventually, since the clones can use Susano’o which is an eye power then they would be able to use Izanagi too which also rewinds time.
He disagrees. He says Yamamoto’s final Bankai power is not EE because is never stated to be EE and contradicts what Yamamoto’s Bankai power is supposed to be. Fire. It simply doesn’t burn anything, it just erases it with a high temperature. Is not some different hax. Which is some bullshit because his Bankai has necromancy and that isn’t related to fire at all.
They say people would recognize this Aizen better than the manga one. Is more popular and allows them to play with it without making a new sprites and show the Hogyōku involved in the fight. Otherwise it would had just been there. This is final arc Aizen + the forms that make him even stronger without multipliers.
They went with verse equalization. In a nutshell, all of Aizen’s techniques are treated as ninjutsu including his regeneration which can be negated. And they use the Minato didn’t had arms argument to prove it erased souls.
Verse Equalization. They didn’t want to nerf any character, otherwise, Chakra will never work on someone outside Naruto’s verse. KS and Genjutsu have the same requirements, people need to see something for it to be activated. Aizen still had a brain, eyes, and spiritual energy for it to work.
The researched guy said Naruto’s uni arguments are basically wank. And the Bleach arguments are VIZ translations fault. The world universe in kanji is “Isekai” which means world, planet. In a nutshell, they saw the new Planets downgrade in VSBW and went with that. It wouldn’t be the first time they use VSBW info. Just watch their Neo vs Wesker video. They don’t mentioned VSBW but is obvious that they are talking about the island level feat for Neo and Agent Smith.
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Even if they made a fight between Yhwach and Kaguya, I can see how they're going to make Kaguya win. They will say Yhwach has no way to counter her regeneration and immortality. Even if Yhwach evades a ETSB with shadows in mid fight it will end with Ash Bones killing Yhwach for good.
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EldemadeDityjon
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Yeah Aizen couldn't regenerate
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Not that, Aizen wasn't regenerating as fast as he used to in the past, he only regenerated after Yhwach was killedNah he likely consumed/absorbed him:
Yomi_Schwarz
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Absolute load of turd. No wonder a lot of people dismisses DB.
Assuming this is even true, why does that mean it shouldn't be used? Basically admitted to shafting aizen.
I hate how spastic people get when it comes to reactive evolution and how they instantly cry NLF when you mention things that are in line with the ability even though they make sense in context and the narrative.
The hogyoku manifests the will of those around it into reality as mentioned by Aizen. This is usually when folks like DB pull out the NLF card but let's look at what exactly it manifested.
We know it has a mind of its own and can "orchestrate events" around people (ex. Urahara, Rukia, Ichigo's entire life LMAO etc.), we know it can grant people powers (ex. Chad's arm *****, Orihime's causality manipulation etc.)
When it fuses with a host, we know it can grant the host a power boost (ex. Aizen's transformations and Aizen being on par with Yhwach despite being sealed), It can grant resistances (ex. Resisted the kototsu's time distortion, Nanana's Underbelly etc.), and can also grant new abilities to the host (ex. Teleportation, True Flight, Fragor etc.) through a series of transformational evolutions
Now can someone tell me, How is the hogyoku vague when we clearly see multiple instances of it being used and its abilities making sense in context of the narrative?
DB is too busy playing it safe that it did Aizen dirty in the process, I guess.
Why is this even being brought up?
Whether or not Aizen can recover from EE would be a non-factor in a fight against Madara since Madara has no means of EE in the first place. (Unless they wanna argue TSB is EE in which case DB is a lost cause)
The Central 46 sentenced Aizen into Muken since Soul Society has no means of getting pass his immortality (Supported by statements of Mayuri). If they TRULY believe that the TSB can """""""""harm the soul""""""""" then the sokyoku which is used to execute outlaws in SS can vaporize the soul when it pierces a target yet that isn't enough to do Aizen in post-transformation. So going by how DB believe the TSB works, how would that do him in? Someone elaborate since I am genuinely puzzled on how DB thinks a soul-based attack would be a sure-win against Aizen, who exists in a series where every battle is a soul based endeavor and he seems to not die even so.
Ah, so they dismiss zanka no tachi's EE as "anime hype" (wtf does that even mean??) lacking in evidence even though we get statements in TYBW that supports this? (I will deadass need to be admitted into a mental asylum due to a non-stop hysteric laughing fit if their reasoning for this is that "it's just fire") but Light speed raikage via databook statement is valid? Ok then.
If they put that much faith in the databooks, I wonder why EE Haien was never brought up????
Gotta have a fight, i guess.
GOD JUST ADMIT YOU'RE DOING VERSE EQUAL IN THE FIGHT INSTEAD OF RESORTING TO DUMB MENTAL GYMNASTICS IN AN EFFORT TO CHAKRA=REIATSU.....Oh apologies, my caps lock isn't working with me today and so does my backspace so i'm keeping that one. Anyways,
But hey, if you wanna say Chakra (which requires a complex circulatory network system within the body to function) and Reiatsu (Which can be exerted outwards as a crushing pressure that induces emotions of fear and terror as well as knock people unconscious) are equal then you do you DB. I mean, it's not like Naruto has a system involving how the series functions regarding souls already so a "verse equal" is deffo needed
And again, apparently a single attack from Madara that """"""""harms the soul""""""""" is a sure way of doing Aizen in when he came from a series where every battle harms the soul. Fair.
Gotta have a fight, i guess.
Ah, yes it would not make sense to nerf madara unnecessarily and it also does not make sense to have him in character where he has a vegeta complex of wanting to see what his opponents can do before resorting to deception.
Thankfully the hogyoku played a part in the fight so they definitely did not "unnecessarily nerf" Aizen.
Why does this matter in a fight between Madara vs. Aizen?
~
Kidding aside, I do not think the problem with this DB is that they were biased and/or made it a matter of popularity. The problem is DB prioritizing playing it safe over actually answering who would win.
My headcanon thinks madara won this DB since madara is the "safe option" and that they were brainstorming on the amount of backlash they would receive from both fandoms (since people will always complain whoever wins or loses) and they decided that they would rather face backlash from the bleach fandom rather than the ginormous naruto fandom.
And i'm not blaming them for doing that since a lot of people over at screwattack does the DB gig fulltime so they just do this stuff for a living rather than actually answering who would win so they could care less about the reception. (I mean, for me, Aizen wins. But if i was a part of the payroll that says Aizen loses.....**** Aizen, Madara wins)
It's just that it worsens their already debilitating credibility (>_> Ben 10 vs. Green Lantern etc.) on battleboards and people who actually give a damn about who would win for fun.
It's their reluctance to admit that they did faulty research that bugs me here.
It's not a matter of "Aizen should have won", it's a matter of "They did Aizen dirty".
.......Or maybe they just did their research wrong in which case, no saving that.
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They just bad at what they do, simple as that.
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It has never been implied that Izanagi can be used via clones.
Yomi_Schwarz
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Can someone just give me a definitive answer.
Does the TSB null regen and harm souls or nah?
For some reason, people can't seem to agree on this.
Does the TSB null regen and harm souls or nah?
For some reason, people can't seem to agree on this.
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TSO's "negate" regeneration in the sense they attack on a Molecular/Atomic level so most people who are hit by them and have a form of regeneration can't really regenerate because of TSO's attacking on such a minute level. But for someone on Aizen's level of Regeneration (Low-Godly) then no it can't negate that level.
Depends if you believe Minato's arms where actually erased with the TSO's or if the Edo Tensei around his arms where negated by the TSO's ability to null Ninjutsu.
EldemadeDityjon
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Even if TSO destroys Aizen hand doesn't mean it completely erases him. Aizen would get causious and use different method of approach.
I mean Everyone knows death battle sucks. They make popular characters to win.
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Yes. Aizen was unable to use what Ichigo confused to be “instant regeneration” base on how fast the Hogyōku was able to heal Aizen on the spot after each wound. Yhwach’s Almighty negated / delayed his regeneration power. Aizen wasn’t able to healed until Yhwach was defeated and sealed away. Yhwach did absorbed / killed Aizen in the final battle as the light novels subject that Aizen regenerated from nothing days after the final battle in front of another company barracks. He was found unconscious. It seems Aizen could had healed from the TSB against Madara in the Death Battle but Madara just won the round. They are not going to wait for Aizen to come back days later by that time Madara would assume him dead and leave.
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Forget all of this trash. How did Madara came back from inside Aizen’s body after Aizen nuke him? Genjutsu? Okay. But what power Madara haves that allows him to come out of Aizen’s soul?Absolute load of turd. No wonder a lot of people dismisses DB.
Assuming this is even true, why does that mean it shouldn't be used? Basically admitted to shafting aizen.
I hate how spastic people get when it comes to reactive evolution and how they instantly cry NLF when you mention things that are in line with the ability even though they make sense in context and the narrative.
The hogyoku manifests the will of those around it into reality as mentioned by Aizen. This is usually when folks like DB pull out the NLF card but let's look at what exactly it manifested.
We know it has a mind of its own and can "orchestrate events" around people (ex. Urahara, Rukia, Ichigo's entire life LMAO etc.), we know it can grant people powers (ex. Chad's arm *****, Orihime's causality manipulation etc.)
When it fuses with a host, we know it can grant the host a power boost (ex. Aizen's transformations and Aizen being on par with Yhwach despite being sealed), It can grant resistances (ex. Resisted the kototsu's time distortion, Nanana's Underbelly etc.), and can also grant new abilities to the host (ex. Teleportation, True Flight, Fragor etc.) through a series of transformational evolutions
Now can someone tell me, How is the hogyoku vague when we clearly see multiple instances of it being used and its abilities making sense in context of the narrative?
DB is too busy playing it safe that it did Aizen dirty in the process, I guess.
Why is this even being brought up?
Whether or not Aizen can recover from EE would be a non-factor in a fight against Madara since Madara has no means of EE in the first place. (Unless they wanna argue TSB is EE in which case DB is a lost cause)
The Central 46 sentenced Aizen into Muken since Soul Society has no means of getting pass his immortality (Supported by statements of Mayuri). If they TRULY believe that the TSB can """""""""harm the soul""""""""" then the sokyoku which is used to execute outlaws in SS can vaporize the soul when it pierces a target yet that isn't enough to do Aizen in post-transformation. So going by how DB believe the TSB works, how would that do him in? Someone elaborate since I am genuinely puzzled on how DB thinks a soul-based attack would be a sure-win against Aizen, who exists in a series where every battle is a soul based endeavor and he seems to not die even so.
Ah, so they dismiss zanka no tachi's EE as "anime hype" (wtf does that even mean??) lacking in evidence even though we get statements in TYBW that supports this? (I will deadass need to be admitted into a mental asylum due to a non-stop hysteric laughing fit if their reasoning for this is that "it's just fire") but Light speed raikage via databook statement is valid? Ok then.
If they put that much faith in the databooks, I wonder why EE Haien was never brought up????
Gotta have a fight, i guess.
GOD JUST ADMIT YOU'RE DOING VERSE EQUAL IN THE FIGHT INSTEAD OF RESORTING TO DUMB MENTAL GYMNASTICS IN AN EFFORT TO CHAKRA=REIATSU.....Oh apologies, my caps lock isn't working with me today and so does my backspace so i'm keeping that one. Anyways,
But hey, if you wanna say Chakra (which requires a complex circulatory network system within the body to function) and Reiatsu (Which can be exerted outwards as a crushing pressure that induces emotions of fear and terror as well as knock people unconscious) are equal then you do you DB. I mean, it's not like Naruto has a system involving how the series functions regarding souls already so a "verse equal" is deffo needed
And again, apparently a single attack from Madara that """"""""harms the soul""""""""" is a sure way of doing Aizen in when he came from a series where every battle harms the soul. Fair.
Gotta have a fight, i guess.
Ah, yes it would not make sense to nerf madara unnecessarily and it also does not make sense to have him in character where he has a vegeta complex of wanting to see what his opponents can do before resorting to deception.
Thankfully the hogyoku played a part in the fight so they definitely did not "unnecessarily nerf" Aizen.
Why does this matter in a fight between Madara vs. Aizen?
~
Kidding aside, I do not think the problem with this DB is that they were biased and/or made it a matter of popularity. The problem is DB prioritizing playing it safe over actually answering who would win.
My headcanon thinks madara won this DB since madara is the "safe option" and that they were brainstorming on the amount of backlash they would receive from both fandoms (since people will always complain whoever wins or loses) and they decided that they would rather face backlash from the bleach fandom rather than the ginormous naruto fandom.
And i'm not blaming them for doing that since a lot of people over at screwattack does the DB gig fulltime so they just do this stuff for a living rather than actually answering who would win so they could care less about the reception. (I mean, for me, Aizen wins. But if i was a part of the payroll that says Aizen loses.....**** Aizen, Madara wins)
It's just that it worsens their already debilitating credibility (>_> Ben 10 vs. Green Lantern etc.) on battleboards and people who actually give a damn about who would win for fun.
It's their reluctance to admit that they did faulty research that bugs me here.
It's not a matter of "Aizen should have won", it's a matter of "They did Aizen dirty".
.......Or maybe they just did their research wrong in which case, no saving that.
FanFiction powers?
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Clones can use eye powers. Izanagi is eye power. GG
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Yes. Verse Equalization makes any anime power Ninjutsu (which is what none-natural energy powers are called in Naruto verse), so Aizen’s regeneration immortality is treated and negated as Ninjutsu. But it wouldn’t kill Aizen for good. He would just come back from nothing days later but by then the battle would be over.
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His regen is not based on using energy, his regen is based basically on the same as someone would normally regen
Yomi_Schwarz
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Let us not forget the time DB made true shikai ichigo use a hollow mask.
Please let's never forget that.
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Is considered an none-natural energy anime power. Regeneration comes from Hogyōku which has souls in it and grants none-natural powers. It basically negated the Hogyōku.
Yomi_Schwarz
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Also,
Didn't Orihime also try to heal the weakened SK using this method but met with the same result?
