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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

You can unironically argue Bankai Ginjo > Base Aizen.

Especially if you argue Fullbring Shikai Ichigo > Stripes Mask Ichigo.

I mean when Ichigo got his power restored it was proportional to the power people put into the blade. Including the likes of Yamamoto, Kisuke, Isshin, among so many others. And those three specifically can tussle with base Aizen based on feats and statements.
 
AppleLord said:
0565-014.png

0565-015.png

Yhwach is supposed to eat his soul.
Click to expand...
When he died all the souls he ate returned
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
You can unironically argue Bankai Ginjo > Base Aizen.

Especially if you argue Fullbring Shikai Ichigo > Stripes Mask Ichigo.

I mean when Ichigo got his power restored it was proportional to the power people put into the blade. Including the likes of Yamamoto, Kisuke, Isshin, among so many others. And those three specifically can tussle with base Aizen based on feats and statements.
Click to expand...
although you can argue they put just part of their power into the sword and Ichigo gained proportionally all those part of powers to gain a decent spiritual pressure, not literally all they whole pressures at maximum output.
 
Tyri456 said:
although you can argue they put just part of their power into the sword and Ichigo gained proportionally all those part of powers to gain a decent spiritual pressure, not literally all they whole pressures at maximum output.
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Doesn't change that they wanted to restore Ichigo to at least at if not beyond his previous power (Striped Mask Bankai) which would still get the same result.

base Aizen >~ Striped Mask Bankai ~< FB Shikai Ichigo < FB Bankai Ichigo >~ Bankai Ginjo, aka Ginjo's full power and base Aizen should be in the same tier of power.

Even more so if you interpret "gaining power beyond what you once had" as Fullbring Ichigo > Striped Mask Ichigo. With Ginjo stealing most of that and then stacking Shikai and Bankai on it.
 
I mean, is there anyone really argue that Base Aizen > Bankai Ginjo? its weird unless you think base Aizen > Yama like what some Aizen fans say on insta
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
I think Bankai Ginjo slaps Aizen at his strongest lol but that's kind of a high ball I guess.
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No, Hogyoku Aizen stomps Ginjo lol.
what is meant by "Ichigo getting back his old powers" IIRC was that power from the badge that Ginjo was trying to make him able to use it. But I'm gonna check that later

Also, wtf wait Aizen at his strongest fought Yhwach, what are you talking about man?
 
Tyri456 said:
although you can argue they put just part of their power into the sword and Ichigo gained proportionally all those part of powers to gain a decent spiritual pressure, not literally all they whole pressures at maximum output.
Click to expand...
maybe you can support your claim by how Isshin was thinking that he can stop Ginjo but Kisuke told him that he shouldn't interfere (although it wasn't Bankai Ginjo)
 
YukaSama4 said:
No, Hogyoku Aizen stomps Ginjo lol.
what is meant by "Ichigo getting back his old powers" IIRC was that power from the badge that Ginjo was trying to make him able to use it. But I'm gonna check that later

Also, wtf wait Aizen at his strongest fought Yhwach, what are you talking about man?
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they keep stating ichigo got his soul reaper powers back, so he should logically scale above himself after he trained in the precipice world, this ichigo shat all over Aizen and bankai ichigo post ts should match him who Ginjo scales to.
Who's yahwach?
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
they keep stating ichigo got his soul reaper powers back, so he should logically scale above himself after he trained in the precipice world, this ichigo shat all over Aizen and bankai ichigo post ts should match him who Ginjo scales to.
Who's yahwach?
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Bo, he got his shinigami power back trust, but not on his dangai level
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Bo, he got his shinigami power back trust, but not on his dangai level
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Personally, I'm in favor of the argument IMade brought up a while back.

Fullbring Shikai > Striped Mask Bankai. Using the scans that say the restoration blade restored power proportional to the power put into it, and the all the Captains and Vice Capatains put power in it, all the Vizards did, and the FKT gang (Isshin, Yoruichi, Kisuke, etc). Then arguing that them pulling all their power into a blade should surpass Striped Mask Bankai Ichigo. Base Yama poured power into that blade and he took his prep flames without dying, so you can get pretty spicy even with low-end scales for FB Ichigo.
 
Does Ichigo's resurrection only apply to one key or to all of the following keys? I mean, Hollow Ichigo claims he can take Ichigo's body when he goes unconscious so I wonder how convenient his resurrection is.

Ichigo should get instinctive reaction in his Hollow form as his Hollow is also a representation of his instincts.
 
KazuiK said:
Does Ichigo's resurrection only apply to one key or to all of the following keys? I mean, Hollow Ichigo claims he can take Ichigo's body when he goes unconscious so I wonder how convenient his resurrection is.

Ichigo should get instinctive reaction in his Hollow form as his Hollow is also a representation of his instincts.
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Theoretically, as long as White is part of Ichigo he should be able to take over and revive Ichigo at least once in an unspecified amount of time, for vs match ups once per battle ig unless its a back to back gauntlet, (assuming any more than once is a NLF).

However, at the same time Ichigo made the claim that he will no longer rely on either Zangetsu's aid (White or OMZ) because they are him and he is they. So, idk if they still exist as traditional separate spirits within Ichigo or he merged and became completely one entity with his Zanpakuto. Albeit, they likely still exist as separate entities within himself, as the reason he wasn't allowed to see Aizen was because they feared Aizen would stir up Ichigo's inner Hollow.

There's nothing to contradict White being able to resurrect him in any key for that matter. I assume he didn't come out Full Hollow other times because OMZ was doing his best to suppress White and Ichigo's Shinigami powers. Without those suppressions tho, there shouldn't be anything to restrict White. I hope Kubo takes part of the Hell Arc (assuming he continues it) to flesh out Ichigo's true Zanpakuto.
 
Ginjo is nowhere near chrysalis and up Aizen. You can make an argument for base but base aizen loses hype further you go i think base aizen would get stomped by bambi tbh. But anyway ichigo full bring is no where near his dangai self only his dual shikai state which has direct comparison to it
 
Base Aizen receives further hype in CFYOW as having the highest Reiatsu for any single race character.

So most of these characters who are only 1 race, not mixtures like Ichigo, are below Base Aizen.
 
Bambi doesn't even come close to Base Aizen going by feats and CFYOW. But CFYOW Ginjo would definitely be > Base Aizen going by statements that he's strong enough to handle Hikone
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Theoretically, as long as White is part of Ichigo he should be able to take over and revive Ichigo at least once in an unspecified amount of time, for vs match ups once per battle ig unless its a back to back gauntlet, (assuming any more than once is a NLF).

However, at the same time Ichigo made the claim that he will no longer rely on either Zangetsu's aid (White or OMZ) because they are him and he is they. So, idk if they still exist as traditional separate spirits within Ichigo or he merged and became completely one entity with his Zanpakuto. Albeit, they likely still exist as separate entities within himself, as the reason he wasn't allowed to see Aizen was because they feared Aizen would stir up Ichigo's inner Hollow.

There's nothing to contradict White being able to resurrect him in any key for that matter. I assume he didn't come out Full Hollow other times because OMZ was doing his best to suppress White and Ichigo's Shinigami powers. Without those suppressions tho, there shouldn't be anything to restrict White. I hope Kubo takes part of the Hell Arc (assuming he continues it) to flesh out Ichigo's true Zanpakuto.
Click to expand...
I think in the same way, the resurrection gives you access to the regeneration of your Hollow, maybe we can see a regeneration similar to Aizen in the new arc
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
they keep stating ichigo got his soul reaper powers back, so he should logically scale above himself after he trained in the precipice world, this ichigo shat all over Aizen and bankai ichigo post ts should match him who Ginjo scales to.
Who's yahwach?
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't mean that.
If you want it that way, Isshin was sure that if he and Kisuke went to fight Ginjo with Ichigo they would finish him quickly while both of them were destroyed by Aizen easily, if Ginjo is stronger than Aizen even if they went there they won't be able to do anything there.
my interpretation is that they were talking about the power that was sealed in that badge because afaik Ginjo was training Ichigo on using that power properly so that was the power that he restored, you can interpret that it means Dangai Ichigo but it's very unlikely and there are many counter-arguments against it honestly, you will need to assume that Byakuya in 16 months of training could destroy the barrier between the realm of soul reapers and that of gods which contradict the first arc as Aizen implied that you need the Hogyoku to do something like that.
I prepared 3 more arguments from the manga and the novel but since you don't know Yhwach I'm not gonna put spoilers here
Arc7Kuroi said:
Personally, I'm in favor of the argument IMade brought up a while back.

Fullbring Shikai > Striped Mask Bankai. Using the scans that say the restoration blade restored power proportional to the power put into it, and the all the Captains and Vice Capatains put power in it, all the Vizards did, and the FKT gang (Isshin, Yoruichi, Kisuke, etc). Then arguing that them pulling all their power into a blade should surpass Striped Mask Bankai Ichigo. Base Yama poured power into that blade and he took his prep flames without dying, so you can get pretty spicy even with low-end scales for FB Ichigo.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree that FB Shikai Ichigo is stronger than any previous form for Ichigo except Dangai and Mugetsu, and also this supports my claim that fullbring dudes aren't above Aizen because that Ichigo from the power of captains was able to fight Ginjo, u will again need to assume that everyone suddenly broke the barrier between soul reapers level and god just using a Zenkai which will make Aizen look like a clown because he could have just let Tousen beat him up and then heal himself lol.
Or from training but also that will make Aizen as one who has the lowest potential to grow in the Gotei because everyone there could reach that level by training and a Zenkai while Aizen needed the Hogyoku which contradicts the databook and Aizen’s speech about himself that he had the most potential in the Gotei and no one could rival him from the start.
 
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YukaSama4 said:
No, it doesn't mean that.
If you want it that way, Isshin was sure that if he and Kisuke went to fight Ginjo with Ichigo they would finish him quickly while both of them were destroyed by Aizen easily, if Ginjo is stronger than Aizen even if they went there they won't be able to do anything there.
my interpretation is that they were talking about the power that was sealed in that badge because afaik Ginjo was training Ichigo on using that power properly so that was the power that he restored, you can interpret that it means Dangai Ichigo but it's very unlikely and there are many counter-arguments against it honestly, you will need to assume that Byakuya in 16 months of training could destroy the barrier between the realm of soul reapers and that of gods which contradict the first arc as Aizen implied that you need the Hogyoku to do something like that.
I prepared 3 more arguments from the manga and the novel but since you don't know Yhwach I'm not gonna put spoilers here
Click to expand...
That was pre time skip isshin and urahara, they could've gotten stronger easily and enough to beat the strongest aizen if they could beat ginjo. The power that was sealed in the combat pass is the same power that ichigo used to defeat aizen, since all his soul reaper powers went into that. When did byakuya do that? what do you even mean by that?
 
Hikone's reiatsu after releasing ressureccion was compared to Aizen's hyogyoku boost and the only people who were stated to be able to beat him were Ichigo, Aizen and Kenpachi and maybe Ginjo which literally counters any argument that any of the Gotei characters had surpassed transcendant Aizen , add the infi from my previous comment and it becomes clear no one in Gotei has surpassed or even reached hogyoku Aizen levels
 
Imagine if this was a real scene where Ichigo turns into Vasto Lorde only for Yhwach to take his horn off with his bare hands and prevent the form from coming out.

61c8d8a0bf2b1c038d2ef4537e62fcc9.jpg
 
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Ssr4vegito said:
Hikone's reiatsu after releasing ressureccion was compared to Aizen's hyogyoku boost and the only people who were stated to be able to beat him were Ichigo, Aizen and Kenpachi and maybe Ginjo which literally counters any argument that any of the Gotei characters had surpassed transcendant Aizen , add the infi from my previous comment and it becomes clear no one in Gotei has surpassed or even reached hogyoku Aizen levels
Click to expand...
Renji said that already. Jackie destroyed a bigger rock plateau than Dangai Ichigo.

0418-007.png
0465-014.png
0465-018.png
0465-019.png
 
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That line from Renji that he could take all of em got me thinking. Byakuya is obviously above Renji but how strong did Renji actually get after the timeskip. Byakuya planned for Renji to smack As with Hihio Zabimaru after Kageyoshi got sealed so would this not imply that Bankai Renji at least would be on roughly the same level as base As Nodt? Taking the above into account, we might actually be able to take Renji’s statement about the Fullbringers as true as Tsukishima was losing to Byakuya at first before he tagged him and trained to his level and base Ginjo = Tsukishima in stats. Kinda laughing rn that there is actually a way to sorta argue Renji did somewhat reach Aizen tier with his Bankai lol.
 
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