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Aka just meaningless fanservice...I don't care for the cat that acts like a monke trying to fight the Demon Lizard
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
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ye, on fullbring arc, renji said "we have been training to take aizen level threats" of course we all know that is not on that level, even after their training they still weaker than yamaji who was the only one truly on that realm of power
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Nothing, there just hasn't been a CRT to apply it yet.
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We waiting for the current CRT to end so we don’t flood everything
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How do you really know?
Because they were not nuking the place? Isn’t that the same logic when it comes to ranking people above Ulquiorra in the final arc? Sounds like double standards. There is something called power scaling, or we don’t give them that level of power just because they didn’t show it? Why do we ignore author intent? Didn’t Aizen get stronger after this? They didn’t know his current level to say they were talking about EOS version of him. More like pre-Hogyoku base Aizen level. I saw a nice power scaling in Comic Vine that places the Fullbringers above God Aizen and it made sense in context but people will never accept it out of bias.
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Is the transcendent limit stuck below Dangai? But wasn’t Yamamoto’s Shikai said to be stronger than Tokinada’s copy? And Tokinada was said to be on Yoruichi and Byakuya’s level. Wouldn’t that mean that Bankai Yamamoto would had kill God Aizen? Or is Yamamoto the pinnacle of power before transcendent beings? I couldn’t say since Yamamoto’s Reiatsu was stated to be transcendent too by that guy who holds a part of the Soul King inside of him.
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"Author intent" on this site sometimes means "What I think the author was trying to imply" which can lead down the road of totally subjective interpretations.
We also don't give them that level of power just because they said they were going to do something without any proof of them actually achieving it.
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.....they are still rated as weaker than 1 arm yamaji and yamaji was the only one on the same level as aizen, so now explain how they are on the same level when they are stated as weaker than 1 arm yamaji....How do you really know?
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That is why you don't think and accept the literal statement. I gotcha therefore Ulquiorra second release can nuke Yhwach out of existence since we don't have proof of Yhwach actually achieving his plan or been on his level. For all we know he could had try and fail all the same. This is the most double standard rule that favorites the more popular characters. Disgusting.
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Do you have the base Aizen statement? Shikai Yama I understand. Nobody is questioning that Yamma couldn't kill Aizen.
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I really wouldn't think so.
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Yama was stronger than all of them and Aizen. Aizen was not stronger than shikai Yama, he nerf Yama to base with that Arrancar. Base Aizen never fought Shikai Yamamoto.
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Why not?
Ovy7
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Tokinada's reiatsu was weak enough that it created weaknesses that weren't there before when Aizen used KS. So that's that.
Edit: The quotes:
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That's not really evidence. Aizen has more reiatsu than everyone as in "amount" and Tokinada had been fighting more people than Aizen for an immense period of time before KS expose the weakness. For all we know Aizen could have the same weakness if he is faced with Shinigami, Arrancars, Fullbringers, and Quincy army that have reiatsu on his level. After reaching his limit as a shinigami he never use KS again. Now why would that be? Coincidence not.
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But ...... Aizen hit all of the Visoreds and Gotei with KS which would include Yama who is superior to Aizen alone. Everyone else is just insult to injury at that point and he still successfully used it on them all. Even back when he was a Lieutenant he could use it one the entire Gotei for hours to days when he went off doing whatever he wanted.
Ovy7
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^ That + everyone was still under the effects of KS even more than 100 years later.
And him not using KS after transcending is also wrong, as he used it twice on Yhwach.
Edit: Oh, and he also maintained KS for multiple days in a row in SS arc as Unohana was basically operating on a fake body created by KS.
And him not using KS after transcending is also wrong, as he used it twice on Yhwach.
Edit: Oh, and he also maintained KS for multiple days in a row in SS arc as Unohana was basically operating on a fake body created by KS.
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All of what you said falls under "has more amount of reiatsu than Tokinada," so is a feat that he can use it for days on people who were not aware of KS and had their guard down at the time anyway. Aizen has more fuel tank than Tokinada when it comes to KS. Tokinada had to deal with people knowing they were under KS. They were fighting back like back in the day when Aizen took everyone down instead of having trouble with them like Tokinada. Coincidence? Or he wanted to avoid the weakness. The Lieutenant part is an exaggeration since that didn't happened until the day he became Captain. And Aizen had use KS on Yhwach correct, but that has nothing to do with Aizen reaching his limits in fake karakura town and not using KS again. Don't bring other arcs that are no relevant to that limit at the time. We are not talking about Muken Aizen who now has infinite reiatsu. On another note, we have never seen Aizen using KS on Yamamoto for long periods of time. KS was not even activated that one time where Yamamoto got stabbed. That was the real Aizen and he got damage on him.
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It doesn’t really matter if you know KS is coming or not.
Even when Yama knew KS was active he was only sure it was Aizen when he grabbed the arm, and even then it wasn’t a guarantee.
Arguing Tokinada a Royal who schemes around rather than train is above Aizen a man who is noted for immense spiritual pressure that hit the peaks of Shinigami, seems like a weird argument.
It doesn’t mess any scaling either, the only people who scale for sure are Striped Mask Ichigo, Isshin, and Shikai Yama. (We scale FB Bankai Ichigo to Striped Mask Ichigo, which would upscale him and Yhwach and Ichibe).
Even when Yama knew KS was active he was only sure it was Aizen when he grabbed the arm, and even then it wasn’t a guarantee.
Arguing Tokinada a Royal who schemes around rather than train is above Aizen a man who is noted for immense spiritual pressure that hit the peaks of Shinigami, seems like a weird argument.
It doesn’t mess any scaling either, the only people who scale for sure are Striped Mask Ichigo, Isshin, and Shikai Yama. (We scale FB Bankai Ichigo to Striped Mask Ichigo, which would upscale him and Yhwach and Ichibe).
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Yes, we know Yamamoto’s Shikai is stronger than Tokinada’s Shikai already, remember, Aizen had to nerf Yamamoto to base to even have a chance. What’s new?
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I kept telling people that while characters got stronger, it's by a linear scale not exponential but people are obsessed with exponential scaling where characters get 5x stronger or even 50 times as I saw in another scale.
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Yep, FKT base Aizen is literally top of the Shinigami scale in terms or reiatsu. He's one step away from Transcendence. No other Captain or character could surpass his level unless they also transcend like Ichigo.
Just because characters got stronger does t mean their reached his level. And it is basically impossible to surpass his level without Transcending Shinigami boundaries which as far as we know, only Ichigo was confirmed to have done so.
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It's not a huge deal for Shikai Yama to be a threat to base Aizen considering Kyoka Suigetsu is not a combat type Bankai. Aizen can't shoot energy beans with it.
But if we are talking about pinnacle of Shinigami, only a few characters qualify whether it is in FKT or EOS, this actually doesn't change no matter how many times people inflate characters with ridiculous multipliers:
Aizen, Yama, Ichibei and Ichigo.
These guys are the peak in terms of pure Shinigami. One could also argue awakened Kenpachi here but the dude has a lot of conditions to his power. Maybe kid Kenpachi when he was > Unohana.
And apart from them, the only guys who even come close is the likes of Isshin, Yoruichi, Urarahara & maybe Kyoraku & Ukitake if he were healthy but there is still a small gap between them and the top tier calibre.
But if we are talking about pinnacle of Shinigami, only a few characters qualify whether it is in FKT or EOS, this actually doesn't change no matter how many times people inflate characters with ridiculous multipliers:
Aizen, Yama, Ichibei and Ichigo.
These guys are the peak in terms of pure Shinigami. One could also argue awakened Kenpachi here but the dude has a lot of conditions to his power. Maybe kid Kenpachi when he was > Unohana.
And apart from them, the only guys who even come close is the likes of Isshin, Yoruichi, Urarahara & maybe Kyoraku & Ukitake if he were healthy but there is still a small gap between them and the top tier calibre.
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Aizen, Yamamoto, Ichibe, (Ichigo doesn’t count he’s more than Shinigami), and CFYOW Kenny are definitely the four strongest Shinigami. Maybe you can argue Isshin because Chrysalis Aizen put some respect on his Getsuga.
Considering Shikai Yama and FKT Aizen > Tokinada ~ EoS Captains (of the likes of Shunsui and Byakuya), where Byakuya is practically the strongest Captain by the end of TYBW (contends with a Gerard that cut through TYBW BanKen), kinda definitively puts the above 4 (potentially 5 to 6 if you wanna include the Kurosakis) as the strongest raw power of the Shinigami. With Kisuke and Mayuri being comparable to that god hood with prep as per CFYOW. Maybe throw CFYOW Ginjo in there too for his crazy statements if we include hybrids like Ichigo.
Considering Shikai Yama and FKT Aizen > Tokinada ~ EoS Captains (of the likes of Shunsui and Byakuya), where Byakuya is practically the strongest Captain by the end of TYBW (contends with a Gerard that cut through TYBW BanKen), kinda definitively puts the above 4 (potentially 5 to 6 if you wanna include the Kurosakis) as the strongest raw power of the Shinigami. With Kisuke and Mayuri being comparable to that god hood with prep as per CFYOW. Maybe throw CFYOW Ginjo in there too for his crazy statements if we include hybrids like Ichigo.
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If the Lanza calc goes through then I’d imagine so. Well I think FKT Ichigo and Gin would get a possibly 6A. Also a little off topic, I get Ichigos shihakusho is a 2x multiplier and it’s good to be conservative. But if we’re being honest there was way more than just half of it missing lol
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Okay but Apple .... if you agree that someone being stronger than the KS user let’s you resist, then you agree with someone being stronger than Aizen can resist his KS. Yama is stronger than Aizen, aware Aizen is gonna be using KS, and is flexing his reiatsu all over the place. He is still caught by the effects of KS and didn’t break out.
Based on what is actually stated, people with less reiatsu than Aizen have this weakness, Aizen himself doesn’t. You can try headcanon your way into saying Aizen “doesn’t have it” because he is so strong (which I will admit is a fair assumption) but when he has a 100% success rate on multiple occasions when using KS against Yama, your assumption doesn’t hold up.
Based on what is actually stated, people with less reiatsu than Aizen have this weakness, Aizen himself doesn’t. You can try headcanon your way into saying Aizen “doesn’t have it” because he is so strong (which I will admit is a fair assumption) but when he has a 100% success rate on multiple occasions when using KS against Yama, your assumption doesn’t hold up.
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Since when is Yama stronger than Aizen especially with regard to reaitsu? Yama has a combat type Zanpakutou while Aizen doesn't. Yama was the only major threat to Aizen since he could obviously overpower him in a head on battle where Kyoka Suigetsu isn't a factor since Zanka no Tachi is obviously combat oriented.
And the whole negging hax thing doesn't even work. We have more examples against than for it, aizen is the first to say it against Soi Fon but later says he might have not been in the fight at all calling that into doubt. Additionally, Soi Fon had been in battle for long, used Bankai twice and even lost an arm, which as we know from Yama, is a huge nerf. So she was practically many times weaker than her normal self. If her Shikai relies on reiatsu then it would have way less power put into it. Even then, her Shikai is later revealed to be a poison, not pure, hax meaning it can even be countered by stuff like poison immunity. It isn't true death hax.
As for Kenachi and Cien/Barragan, even ignoring how Narita wanks Kenpachi, it is implied Kenpachi would use his reiatsu to blow Respira away. Not that he would literally stand there and let respira hit him and respira would just not work on him. First, the fact that respira can be blown away means its like matter particles, not intangible as the concept of time. Second, since he wouldn't even be in contact with it, it isn't really tanking, just deflecting it.
As for tanking organ crushing, all that told me is that the organ crushing isn't hax, just Telekinesis on internal organs. If coating organs with reiatsu to increase their durability is enough to counter it then it isn't really actual hax.
Negging actual hax would be something like standing there and letting X-Axis hit you and it having zero effect.
And the whole negging hax thing doesn't even work. We have more examples against than for it, aizen is the first to say it against Soi Fon but later says he might have not been in the fight at all calling that into doubt. Additionally, Soi Fon had been in battle for long, used Bankai twice and even lost an arm, which as we know from Yama, is a huge nerf. So she was practically many times weaker than her normal self. If her Shikai relies on reiatsu then it would have way less power put into it. Even then, her Shikai is later revealed to be a poison, not pure, hax meaning it can even be countered by stuff like poison immunity. It isn't true death hax.
As for Kenachi and Cien/Barragan, even ignoring how Narita wanks Kenpachi, it is implied Kenpachi would use his reiatsu to blow Respira away. Not that he would literally stand there and let respira hit him and respira would just not work on him. First, the fact that respira can be blown away means its like matter particles, not intangible as the concept of time. Second, since he wouldn't even be in contact with it, it isn't really tanking, just deflecting it.
As for tanking organ crushing, all that told me is that the organ crushing isn't hax, just Telekinesis on internal organs. If coating organs with reiatsu to increase their durability is enough to counter it then it isn't really actual hax.
Negging actual hax would be something like standing there and letting X-Axis hit you and it having zero effect.
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Yama is not stronger than Aizen based on reiatsu, no pure Shinigami is, but based on raw combat power due to zanpakutou type.
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You realise reiatsu = stats right? Yama has greater stats meaning he has greater reiatsu. If you go read the quotes where it brings up the weakness of Tokinada’s KS, it mentions how Shunsui and Yoruichi combined have superior reiatsu to Tokinada. If reiatsu isn’t based on the quantity of reiatsu (as you seem to be implying), why does Narita even bother to bring this up?
Also why are you bringing up power nulling with reiatsu now? We are talking about the weakness that Tokinada’s KS is said to have which is directly related to the reiatsu of its target.
It’s also not Zanka no Tachi that is a problem for Aizen, it’s Ryuujin Jakka. Aizen doesn’t think he will win against Yama’s Shikai. Not like it actually matters since Yama’s physicals scale to his Shikai when he managed to survive and suppress his own suicide technique that needed a long ass amount of prep and was concentrated on him. Losing access to Shikai didn’t even phase him in the slightest when it came to his confidence in simply beating the crap outta Aizen.
Also why are you bringing up power nulling with reiatsu now? We are talking about the weakness that Tokinada’s KS is said to have which is directly related to the reiatsu of its target.
It’s also not Zanka no Tachi that is a problem for Aizen, it’s Ryuujin Jakka. Aizen doesn’t think he will win against Yama’s Shikai. Not like it actually matters since Yama’s physicals scale to his Shikai when he managed to survive and suppress his own suicide technique that needed a long ass amount of prep and was concentrated on him. Losing access to Shikai didn’t even phase him in the slightest when it came to his confidence in simply beating the crap outta Aizen.
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There is no where in the entirety of Bleach where it is stated that Yamamoto has more Reaitsu than Aizen. That's your headcanon.
And even then, Reiatsu is not all there is to stats when using Zanpakutou. What the Zanpakutou actually does is a huge factor.
Kyoka Suigetsu and Sakanade for example, are non-combat illusion type Zanpakutou. They cannot be compared to combat type Zanpakutou in the hands of people on par with the users.
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“He is still caught by the effects of KS and didn’t break out.”
Show me a scan of Yamamoto under KS.
“We have more examples against than for it, aizen is the first to say it against Soi Fon but later says he might have not been in the fight at all calling that into doubt.”
In the final arc, Ichigo tells Aizen he remembers the feeling he had when he activated KS, it show the flashback panel where Aizen raised his sword to cut Soifon after negating her powers.
Show me a scan of Yamamoto under KS.
“We have more examples against than for it, aizen is the first to say it against Soi Fon but later says he might have not been in the fight at all calling that into doubt.”
In the final arc, Ichigo tells Aizen he remembers the feeling he had when he activated KS, it show the flashback panel where Aizen raised his sword to cut Soifon after negating her powers.
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