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people currently are busy with other threads so I believe it didnt
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
Ovy7
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Damage recalced it to Mach 7, and I think someone had some problems with the calc in the comments of the blog, but I don't think that went anywhere.
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Nimaiya's Shadow
vsbattles.fandom.com
CRT soon for FTL TYBW characters? Yes!
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Askin and others but it’ll obvi be discussed in a CRT for application
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Nimaiya's Shadow
CRT soon for FTL TYBW characters? Yes!
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You didn’t read the calc, I account for where his blood is and subtract that distance away...
Not to mention his blood splatter isn’t even a round disk or sphere like the shadow indicates, it was two pillars -.-
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If you’re not going to actually examine the calc then your criticisms don’t hold weight. My calc addresses the positioning of the blood splurts relative to the shadow don’t worry.
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It does, cuz anything above SoL for bleach is a clear wank
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@Arc7Kuroi whats happened to the lanza and hado 90?
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So there’s this thing where damage is the only staff who partakes in anything Bleach. So, everything has to go through him. Meaning if he doesn’t get to it, it’s put on the burner and has to simmer.
Lanza’s method was accepted, it just needs re-evaluation.
Hado 90 needs to be evaluated.
The Nimaiya calc needs to be evaluated too.
However, before any of that can happen I’m assuming damage wants to finish the current thread. Which isn’t even half way through its proposals.
More or less, because no one but damage wants to do Bleach threads, we have to wait a long time to get through things.
There’s a Gremmy meteor CRT, a Yamamoto CRT, a God Tier CRT, and a few speed CRTs in the works (some even completed), but I can’t post any (I mean I can but I’m being respectful) until we wrap up our current thread.
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Arc, you absolute madman!Nimaiya's Shadow
CRT soon for FTL TYBW characters? Yes!
It still fascinates me to this day how many new feats people have discovered for all those years after the manga concluded.
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Except he didn’t? They were smashing his wolves no problem and if it wasn’t for their ability to reform, the wolves would’ve changed nothing. Wolves = Starrk’s soul. Let’s not forget that Rose and Love were still able to fight and were ready to go if not for Shunsui jumping Starrk from behind and stealing the fight. A minute later and they were trying to dogpile Aizen so this idea that Starrk beat is weird as hell.
Zangetsu never pushed Kensei tho. What we see is Kensei bopping tf outta Zangetsu and only being surprised by his regen making some weird monster thing that he one shots. When we cut back to the real world, Love is getting harmed by Zangetsu and is stated to not be able to deal with a Cero in base. Man fails to do anything at all while Kensei actually did something
Barragan could age his Kido, not destroy it. Those are two different things. They definitely aren’t the same because the Visoreds have all seen how strong base Zangetsu is and are aware he will keep getting stronger the longer it goes on. That’s why Shinji has Hachi set up barriers and restrain Ichigo while Hiyori going to fight Ichigo requires multiple barriers.
Because he basically does have two sources of power. If his base is 1, his Voll is 5 and Blut is a vague +, Ayon > 5+. Absorbing Ayon means Quilge is now = 10++. I am pointing out how Quilge turning off Blut only makes his defense 10+ and turning off Voll still makes him 6+ bare minimum. Grimmjow scales to Kisuke and Askin who either have a statement or feat against the same Quilge. No matter what happens, Grimmjow scales to this tier.
And Ichigo didn’t neg Askin’s hax despite his held back self being superior to Transcendent beings. No one ever negs hax with reiatsu besides Kenpachi (do you have the statement for this?) and a statement from Aizen where he doesn’t even demonstrate it because everything is an illusion. Aizen wasn’t negging hax in that scene, he was flexing his raw power to destroy Reio’s excess power.
Pulling what? No one negs stuff by reiatsu seeing as the one example you have is Kenpachi’s reiatsu simply making his organs too strong to be affected by Cien’s hax which requires the physical destruction of said organs. Aizen never power nulls Soifon as the scene is an illusion and as I mentioned before, Ichigo didn’t power null Askin’s Deathdealing despite being > Hikone who is fighting a small army of people who are relative enough to Askin. I don’t accept it because it never happens and the two guys who apparently did it, didn’t actually do it since one was too durable and the other was trolling everyone else.
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He did lol, the wolves =/= Starrk in dura, they were like a flames as they explained.
Normal cero would not be enough to deal with Love and Rose, so he used the wolves, Love and Rose were not able to deal with that and the wolves took them down while they were using their masks.
The one that Love fought > The one that Kensei fought
still they werent the same barriers, Hachi used a mix of special barriers that he did not use for Ichigo
My point is, if Quilge is now 10+, Kisuke’s attack heavily weakened him, Kisuke weakened the Quilge with the 10+ points, so now he is not 5 nor 5+, he is just weakened to an unknown degree.
an example, because Im bad at explaining xD..
If X absorbed Y’s powers, Z came and cut X in half, Z will scale to X+Y powers combined right?
but If X who absorbed Y was heavily weakened, thats just a new key for him, that Z will scale to.
did u get my point or no? if no I will try to explain more
Strawman
already brought it above and Purgy agreed with me that its cuz of his reiatsu, I can bring it again later if u need it
It happened, Soifon did attack him and he negated her attack, the illusion was that they were fighting Hinamori.
Even when Ichigo was talking to Aizen about the time when he put everyone under his illusion he was talking about the time after the Soifon scene, so its safe to assume that it started there.
What are you talking about? xD
I didnt mention that scene as an evidence for that
I mentioned it about the Hallibel part, that maybe she didnt know about the reiatsu thing, just as captains were attacking those creatures with their swords and Aizen came and said why are u doing that in this way when u can just attack with ur reiatsu
And that what I meant as I said above, he made the effect of that ability seem useless because he negated it with his reiatsu, Azashiro could not kill him in the same way he killed the 7th Kenpachi because his reiatsu will neg his effect, thats what I meant, If we are SRs and I have a certain ability I wont be able to defeat u using it if u were like far stronger than me, which is the case with Grimmjow here
As I mentioned before he did
As I said its a strawman because I never said Shinigami negs Quincies abilities, I said Shinigami/Hollows (arrancars included)
because of his reiatsu
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oh also for this, Kyoraku cant beat Hikone even with his bankai which support my point
"There weren’t many who could take on that thing that was in the form of a Soul Reaper.
Ichigo Kurosaki and Kenpachi Zaraki could have, as well as Sosuke Aizen, if he actually wanted to win. Kisuke Urahara and Mayuri Kurotsuchi might have been able to match up to Hikone as well, if it wasn’t a match of physical strength, but this was no opponent that an assistant captain–level Soul Reaper could face."
oh also Ichigo was not effected by hado 90 because his reiatsu >> Aizen
also Aizen negated Kisuke’s sealing attack when he evolved and even said that if he was in his base form he would have died which also supports my point
also Aizen was going to neg the seal by reiatsu if the hogyoku didnt reject him
also Aura and others were stated to be able to seal KS power by reiatsu, because KS with Tokinada has this weakness as well
"Had Tokinada been Aizen, he might have been able to fulfill the conditions of having those around him see the shikai the moment it was invoked. However, now that someone other than Aizen was using the blade, another weakness was involved. Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure.
Then again, there were very few who had spiritual pressure that exceeded Tokinada’s and who could also skillfully perform such a feat. Because of that, he took his time creating an opening to show the powerhouses Kyoraku and Yoruichi his shikai.
There were a limited number of people in that place who had spiritual pressure comparable to or exceeding Tokinada’s who also were not under the effects of Complete Hypnosis. There was Hikone Ubuginu, Kenpachi Zaraki, Kugo Ginjo…
…and Aura Michibane."
So yes the Author does believe in the concept of Reiatsu > abilities for some kinds, probably the only exceptions are quincies as we were shown, maybe the reason because they dont emit Reiatsu but idk that wasnt explained
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So people still being able to fight and someone else interrupting means one side lost? Aight chief, you do you.
It’s literally explained that the wolves are Starrk’s soul. Are you telling me that Starrk doesn’t scale to himself? If these wolves have the energy to harm Love and Rose, why do their durability not scale? It’s reiatsu after all.
A whole pack of wolves being responsible for breaking their Mask’s doesn’t mean anything when these guys could take the blasts in base and keep going.
Difference is that Love didn’t do anything to Zangetsu whereas Kensei did. Kensei has a feat while Love has a statement from his equal that he can’t take a Cero in base.
Why are the ones used against Barragan special? What makes them superior? The ones used for Ichigo’s training were straining and tiring Hachi, the ones for Barragan weren’t. Barragan also didn’t overcome them with AP but hax so it doesn’t matter.
Prove he was heavily weakened? Because the same Kisuke that beat Quilge immediately got Uno’d by the supposedly weaker Quilge right before Grimmjow one shot him. This same Grimmjow is also able to fight people stronger than Quilge later in this arc and then in the Novels shortly after.
What strawman? Your whole argument is that more reiatsu let’s you power null and I brought up an example of someone with more reiatsu not power nulling a hax. That’s not a strawman, that’s direct counter to your stance.
Purgy literally said that it’s because Kenny was too durable for the hax to break his organs. Age manip has nothing to do with durability.
See^. He never makes a post on the topic after this so his one and only comment on it disagrees with you unless you guys spoke about it somewhere else.
Huh? The illusion is that they are fighting Aizen While they are actually fighting Momo. So Momo > Soifon? Got it.
Proof? Aizen even says it himself “and since when we’re you under the impression that I wasn’t using Kyoka Suigetsu”. That’s from the man himself directly implying he was always using KS on them. Unless Ichigo is the one whose perspective we are seeing, nothing in that scene is valid.
Then why bring it up? Everyone knows how to fight with reiatsu, especially Hollows and Arrancar. What do you think Ceros and Balas are?
Scans and once more, it would still be something only Kenpachi ever does.
And you need proof that he did when he tells us he was using KS the whole time.
Thats not a strawman, you don’t get to pick and choose what does and doesn’t fall under this power null. You been saying reiatsu this whole time which means it would apply to the reiatsu of every race as it’s all still reiatsu. Since you wanna play the race argument, would it include Hollows? The statements only ever mentions Shinigami and Respira is a Hollow ability. Unlike Visoreds, the Arrancar don’t actually get something from the Shinigami. All they do is break their mask and seal away a portion of their own Hollow power into a sword that they call a Zanpakuto (isn’t even a true one). They are full on Hollows so you can’t even say they have Shinigami reiatsu at all.
You are seriously missing how this all works. If X has reality warping and uses it to shoot fire at Y, Y being resistant to fire manip or reality warping doesn’t mean he resists the other. The hax failed because of reiatsu making Kenny durable, not because it power billed the hax.
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Ichigo did not have more reaitsu than Aizen considering he literally discarded it in exchange for raw power.
He did not power null Hado 90. He simply broke it with raw strength.
Ichigo has never power nulled any hax in Bleach. Even the Jail was broken once hia Quincy powers came into play.
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You realise that doesn’t help at all right? Hikone is too durable for Shunsui to beat him, has too much stamina to die first, can regen from the wounds that get shared etc. Every single aspect of Shunsui’s Bankai gets countered by Hikone’s raw stats. While we are at it, let’s even compare Askin vs Ichigo and Hikone vs Shunsui.
- Shunsui is stronger than Askin via being comparable to Yoruichi who bullied Askin if not for his hax
- Ichigo is even stronger than Hikone according to the Femritters
Hado 90 isn’t hax. Aizen straight up said he was hitting Ichigo with Gravity manip. Ichigo just tanked it.
He didn’t negate the sealing. Aizen’s evolution kept him from blowing tf up.
You mean the one after FGT? The same one that he was partially breaking out of with raw strength? That’s not negating shit, that’s AP and lifting.
That’s got nothing to do with power null, that’s a direct weakness of Tokinada using KS, not Aizen. Aizen was able to use KS on Yama who he admits is more powerful than him while people weaker or at best equal to Tokinada can suppress KS? What a joke.
What Narita believes doesn’t mean anything when what Kubo gave us disagrees. Every example you have given has been outright false or contradicts things from Kubo. Also, “abilities for some kinds” is only Shinigami according to the statements and the one example you have that actually involves a Shinigami’s hax is directly told to us that he was always using illusions.
This was explained by Orihime in the Quilge fight when he activated Voll. Since he is constantly absorbing everything around him, this includes any reiatsu that he emits himself. This still wouldn’t explain why Quincy hax is the apparent outlier for every race in your argument when their hax is still reiatsu based and thus would still be subject to the power null. Unless of course the statements actually specify Shinigami in which case, Grimmjow can’t power null hax as he isn’t a Shinigami or even partially, and Barragan’s hax wouldn’t fall under the rule as well since he is in the same boat as Grimmjow.
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Agree with the rest but the bolded is wrong. That was Aizen’s attempt to rationalise the ass whooping he was taking at the time and is proven wrong when he later comes to the realisation that Ichigo is simply so much stronger that he can no longer sense his reiatsu much like how the Shinigami in FKT couldn’t sense his own unless he nerfed himself.
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because it was explained that they were similar to flames, u ignored that completely
lol u make it seem as if they took the blast and "oh thats nothing" they were clearly taken down, being able to fight after that does not mean that Starrk would lose, what we were shown is that he defeated them
Yes they are lol, he mixed a lot of kido spells just to seal Barragan there, he didnt do the same with Ichigo
Thats how Barragan fights, he was using his hax all over the place just to prove that its limitless and whatever
and I literally replied and he replied and I explained what I meant by "nulling" u are just ignoring many things and he didnt complain
The dude was barely standing and you are asking me to prove that he was heavily weakened? okay it seems that our standards for "heavily weakened" are just different lol
Kisuke was off guard btw, dont tell me now that u will ask for a proof that he was? come on man.
Im not talking about this, Im saying he doesnt scale to Quilge, thats all.
Lol?
Ichigo was not effected and from his perspective it was as he said
by reiatsu, by your logic Kyoraku will destroy Ichigo and Yama in 1v1
I did bring, its not my problem that u are trying to interpret it to suit your opinion
no no its a strawman, I built my case on Aizens words, then I tried to link it to hollows/arrancars, stop forcing what you want me to say on me, I never mentioned a quincy, thats just your strawman.
what race argument? you just made a strawman, I have not done anything nor Im responsible for how u are interpreting my words lol.
for the hollow thing, yes I linked the hollows/visords/Fullbringers to it because we are shown that it is, + they fight in same way when it comes to reiatsu.
never said they have the same reiatsu as shinigami
Bruh, I explained what I meant for that many times, you are clearly now just trying to force me to take that opinion, stop that lol
I explained that what I mean by nulling abilities by reiatsu is literally making them useless because u have a higher reiatsu, I did say that many times during this discussion but u just take what suits u for some reason
read the manga again
read the manga again, he had a far higher reiatsu so that he was able to do that, simple
another strawman, stop bringing quincies abilities and trying to strawman me using them
You are still pushing this strawman even when I said thats not what I said
because he has a higher reiatsu than Aizen
bruh, I didnt say that Aizen there was negating it, I said he was gonna do it if the hogoyku didnt reject him, he didnt even try because he was rejected and lost his power so he was trying to break out that dumb way
We clearly got a party of strawman here rn, if u cant understand something I have said, u can ask me not putting your own theories
a weakness that allows people who are stronger than him to seal KS through Reiatsu which supports my point
?? thats totally irrelevant to my point, and no, its stated that people who have Reiatsu higher than Tokinada can do that, not weaker lol
No its not contradicted by anything except that you are bringing quincies shit and strawmaning me, thats literally what u are doing now
already covered that
You can ask Kubo if u like
explained that before
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btw I have a 2 weeks of exams so I wont be able to reply for a while, and honestly it seems that we reached a dead end lol, so going off now and thanks for the discussion.
iirc u asked me for the statement where it says that Zaraki was not effected because his reiatsu made his durable higher or something like that
so here u go
"Chapter 17 (p216-251) — Dangai, inside the Garganta Zaraki is standing in the Garganta on a foothold of reishi. Although, technically, his foothold is buried under a pile of defeated clones and he’s standing on top of those. The clones look just like Zaraki except for a strange pattern on their faces. Cien is in his released form, tentacles growing out of his body. He’s holding a miniature doll of Zaraki in his hand. He’s trying to squash one of the doll’s organs (which would cause the real Zaraki’s organ to be squashed as well), but it’s as hard as steel. He could probably slice through it with his sword, but then he might as well slice the real Zaraki. Zaraki’s reiatsu is higher than he had anticipated. Cien couldn’t collect enough reishi in the area to create perfect clones and organs. And, although the clones had managed to injure Zaraki, the Shinigami didn’t seem tired in the least. His reiatsu actually seemed to have grown even denser. Cien comments that, based on the data from Zaraki’s fight with Nnoitra, his tricks should’ve worked."
iirc u asked me for the statement where it says that Zaraki was not effected because his reiatsu made his durable higher or something like that
so here u go
"Chapter 17 (p216-251) — Dangai, inside the Garganta Zaraki is standing in the Garganta on a foothold of reishi. Although, technically, his foothold is buried under a pile of defeated clones and he’s standing on top of those. The clones look just like Zaraki except for a strange pattern on their faces. Cien is in his released form, tentacles growing out of his body. He’s holding a miniature doll of Zaraki in his hand. He’s trying to squash one of the doll’s organs (which would cause the real Zaraki’s organ to be squashed as well), but it’s as hard as steel. He could probably slice through it with his sword, but then he might as well slice the real Zaraki. Zaraki’s reiatsu is higher than he had anticipated. Cien couldn’t collect enough reishi in the area to create perfect clones and organs. And, although the clones had managed to injure Zaraki, the Shinigami didn’t seem tired in the least. His reiatsu actually seemed to have grown even denser. Cien comments that, based on the data from Zaraki’s fight with Nnoitra, his tricks should’ve worked."
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What does that have to do with their durability? We see that they are clearly physical, it’s how Love and Rose can hit and be bitten by them, just that they can reform when someone else destroys them.
That would be your interpretation of what I said, not what I actually said. I am saying that Love and Rose were still in a condition to fight after taking hits from the wolves in base which means that the wolves aren’t even stronger than them. Their Masks only broke in the blast of multiple wolves so the wolves don’t even scale to their Masked attacks.
Here is the thing, the barriers have no other feats besides against their respective opponents. You are ignoring that in favor of arguing some fluff about Hachi using a bunch of spells whereas I am comparing the amount of effort Hachi is using to actually make and maintain them. Even when Soifon’s Bankai nuked the inside of the combined barrier, Hachi wasn’t tired or struggling to maintain said barrier while he was when he set up the barriers for Hiyori to fight with Ichigo.
Okay so he never uses AP against the barriers so you have nothing to scale them above the ones used in VT.
So he doesn’t agree with you and you have been lying. Your argument this whole time has been reiatsu let’s people power null hax but apparently you are now saying that you were intentionally misrepresenting the events in the novel to push your point.
Seeing as he was still able to slam Kisuke with no difficulty, yeah, he wasn’t that injured. Quincy stats are entirely dependent on their control which has no bearing on their physical condition besides stamina. Quilge was perfectly fine in that regard as he never once showed any fatigue in the fight so his stats are the same as before.
Literally kills Askin who is superior to Quilge and at least relative to Kisuke who directly scales to the “10+” analogy. You can choose to not talk about it but you still haven’t proven why he doesn’t when he has two ways of scaling above Quilge lol
I agree. The direct implication of your argument is indeed hilarious.
You’re aware that that panel isn’t what Ichigo sees right? If that panel is real then Shunsui stabs Aizen the very next second immediately followed by Toshiro. Seeing as we know Aizen was down on the ground in Momo’s place as this was all happening, Aizen couldn’t have powernulled Soifon.
How in god’s name did you come to that conclusion? Shunsui can’t do shit to any version of Yama and TS Ichigo wouldn’t even notice the ant that is Shunsui.
But you didn’t. You only spoke about a scene and it still doesn’t counter what Aizen said.
Aizen’s words were “battles between Shinigami are battles of reiatsu”. Where does it mention anything about the other races? Arrancars are not Shinigami and aren’t even partially Shinigami with the exceptions of Aaroniero and Tosen. You don’t need to mention Quincies when you said reiatsu and started applying the statement that’s specifically about Shinigami to Hollows and Arrancars.
You live to keep saying I am strawmanning when you are out here lying about Kenpachi’s feat, lying about how reiatsu null works, lying about who it applies to etc. You are the one who brought races into this when you said the reiatsu power null applies to Hollow and Arrancar (it doesn’t) and then arbitrarily said that it doesn’t apply to Quincies.
Okay so you admit to arbitrarily extending reiatsu power null to races that are never said to have it and never shown to have it.
I love how you keep lying about things
How can you say you didn’t say Aizen was gonna stop it with reiatsu when the post you are responding to directly quotes where you said it?
Did you miss the part of my post where I quoted you saying Hikone would beat Shunsui which was in direct response to me saying no one shows power null? Double check what you are responding to before you actually post the comment.
And physical durability tanking AP doesn’t mean reiatsu nulls hax. Do you even know what you are trying to argue? Because this has nothing to do with reiatsu nulling hax.
Proof he was gonna power null the seal? What we see is that he has become drastically weaker and then we get a statement that he has become drastically weaker. Even so, he was still able to physically break through the seal at first. There is no hax to the sealing when all it does is physically restrain him. What we know the Hog gives Aizen is reactive evo that makes him stronger and regen to come back from the damage that triggers his evolution. If Aizen still had the Hogyoku, he would have just become stronger physically which is all he needs to break out of the seal.
And directly countered by Aizen’s KS working on Yama who is stronger while Tokinada was having issues with people equal to him. This flaw only exists for Tokinada and not Aizen
The people that were stated to be capable of this were tag teaming Tokinada and we’re still unable to beat him. Aka, they weren’t stronger than him.
Ah so only you can arbitrarily apply Aizen’s statement to all the other races to support your stance? Odd that.
Misread it more like but whatever.
There are a great many things I would love to ask Kubo but alas, I am unable to contact him.
No, no you didn’t. You just decided by yourself that it was the case and presented it as fact. This is just refusal to accept that you are wrong.
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No prob and good luck with the exams dude.
Thanks for the scan. This doesn’t really help your argument though. The durability of the doll pieces are tied to that of the actual organs in question so once again, Kenny isn’t nulling anything seeing as the doll would actually share damage with Kenny if Cien used his sword (which is able to damage Kenny), Cien is just too weak to break the organ pieces by hand cuz Kenny is far stronger than his physical strength.
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U 2 still going?
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Nah, Yuka got exams so unless he restarts this in a few weeks, I’m done lol.
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considering femritters where able to clown and a few people after they went thro training to "reach aizen level" i would actually go more for them, but the again espada have more hax so idk
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You can wank the Femritters to casual TS Ichigo level in Voll lol
Loyd
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what? is this stated?
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Renji says they trained so they could defeat Aizen level threats, not that that means they actually can lol
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People love to wank that Ichigo picked up his blade and went “Grimmjow!”
IDK why
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Ichigo was shook cuz he got hit with PTSD from their first fight.
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More like Kubo wanted to make the scene hype, like “WoAh GuYs ItS gRimMjOw”
