-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
- 4,108
- 3,130
"However, the part of them that had become his own flesh and his own blood stirred Grimmjow’s instincts as a beast.
It was because she knew his nature that Halibel, who was the true ruler of Hueco Mundo, did not call herself its king. No matter how those around them viewed it, the moment she took that name, she knew she would begin a fight to the death against Grimmjow.
Grimmjow as he was now, with his instinct back, would likely bare his fangs even knowing he would lose to the likes of Aizen or Barragan"
iirc Quilge and Bambi are stated to be 2 of the strongest stern ritter, after the schutzstaffel, haschwalth, uryu ofc.
Quilge also absorbed that monster so he became stronger, Ichigo was still defeating him, when Ichigo arrived to SS, we are shown stern ritters like Bambi and Mask getting scared of his reiatsu.
I think it was a speed blitz
- 1,058
- 341
Well Yhwach seemed surprised Ichigo was in Hueco Mundo so I don’t think Quilge was sent there for that reason. He also seemed surprised that Ichigo broke out of Quilge’s jail and awakened his Quincy powers which is why he said he should’ve sent an arrancar instead.
As for Jugram, I honestly have no idea if it’s because he was that strong and Ichigo was kinda running on fumes or if he used the Balance. That one stumps me lol
Loyd
He/Him- 3,161
- 1,211
were was this stated?
- 4,108
- 3,130
I believe someone once brought it up here on the wiki, it was something in the meaning of Bambi thinking that she and Quilge were stronger than Meninas and others
- 1,058
- 341
Thank you very much lol. It makes sense to mention Aizen when he was the ruler and stronger than all the Espada, but I don’t see a reason to mention Barragan other than the fact that Ikimikidomoe knew him even though Stark and Yammy were stronger than him. Even though they’re all dead that’s the only reason I could see Barragan being brought up
If that’s true about the Quincy’s, then that definitely goes to show how much stronger Ichigo was than pretty much everyone was by that point and I agree with it
- 1,058
- 341
Even if it wasn’t stated, the only people I can recall easily handling sternritter in the 1st invasion were Kenpachi, Yamamoto and Ichigo. Every other Captain felt it was needed to use bankai to fight them. Even shikai Shunsui was struggling against Robert, though he did use vollstandig so that might be a moot point
- 4,108
- 3,130
I found this
“W-we’re in hot water! What’s with that pale girl? All she’s doing is
making everything explode all of a sudden!” Loly, hiding in the shadow of
the skull soldiers, screamed and broke into a cold sweat.
Menoly, to whom the question had been directed, had been overtaken by
fear and was shivering. “Th-this is so bad, Loly! She might be as strong as
that Quilge guy with the glasses...”
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I will search later about the part where it says that Bambi is stronger than others, because iirc it was something like that, Bambi is stronger than others, and Quilge is on her level. But I will check later for that, have a class after minutes so yeah
“W-we’re in hot water! What’s with that pale girl? All she’s doing is
making everything explode all of a sudden!” Loly, hiding in the shadow of
the skull soldiers, screamed and broke into a cold sweat.
Menoly, to whom the question had been directed, had been overtaken by
fear and was shivering. “Th-this is so bad, Loly! She might be as strong as
that Quilge guy with the glasses...”
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I will search later about the part where it says that Bambi is stronger than others, because iirc it was something like that, Bambi is stronger than others, and Quilge is on her level. But I will check later for that, have a class after minutes so yeah
- 13,509
- 5,665
Didn’t realise. One of the scaling chains basically goes like this
Current R1 Grimmjow = Voll Askin (x5) > base Askin =< Shikai Renji (stomps) > Star Punch Mask (x10) > Kensei and Rose cheers Mask (stomps) > Kensei Cheers Mask (stomps) > Bankai Kensei > Shikai Kensei >= Visored Training Zangetsu >= Masked Rose =< R1 Starrk >= R1 Barragan.
This would only be the route with the least multipliers to Barragan and even then Current Grimmjow is well over x50 stronger.
Current R1 Grimmjow (x5) > base Grimmjow (one shots) > Ayon Voll Quilge dura = FB Bankai (x5) > FB Shikai = Ichigo absorbed Ginjo (x2) > Badge Ginjo > Scaffold Ginjo = Tsukishima = Bankai Byakuya >= Ape Yammy Hierro (x2) = Dino Yammy Hierro = 50% Mask Bankai (x5) > 50% Bankai > Dino Yammy striking > R1 Starrk striking = R1 Starrk Cero >= R1 Barragan.
Here is another scaling chain that puts him x500 Barragan’s attacks. Byakuya fighting Yammy and then Tsukishima and the Visoreds fighting the Top 3 means half the post timeskip captains scale above the top Espada directly and they proceed to get bopped by Ritters all over the place.
- 1,058
- 341
Yeah that second one is definitely not right imo. Quilge was getting trolled on by Ichigo and just had a hole shot through his chest by Urahara and was beat down to a point he had to use a technique that used reishi strings just to allow him to move. Very wrong to assume that means Grimmjow is stronger than a fresh Quilge. Do you seriously believe base Grimmjow could one shot FB bankai Ichigo?
- 1,058
- 341
I’m just amazed Anonymous even tried to imply that Grimmjow killing a heavily weakened Quilge who couldn’t even stand up on his own without a special Quincy technique somehow means he’s stronger than FB bankai Ichigo who Quilge outright admitted easily surpassed him lol
- 13,509
- 5,665
Ichigo was literally failing to break Ayon Voll Quilge’s Blut and was winning because of speed and speed alone. Grimmjow one shot that same guy in base. Grimmjow ripping through Askin is all that’s needed to prove his superiority to FB Bankai since Askin > Quilge who Ichigo was failing to kill.
- 29,693
- 24,620
It is possible that Quilge's Blut wasn't active when Grimmjow one-shot him.
It wasn't when Urahara hit him, which was what enabled Urahara to do damage to him.
- 1,058
- 341
This^. And wasn’t Askin literally using one of his ultimate attacks and Grimmjow caught him by surprise? Not to mention @Anonymous, you’re failing to remember Quilge couldn’t even stand on his own and had a giant hole in his chest. You’re making it seem like Grimmjow walked up to a fully healed Quilge and one shot him like it was nothing when he didn’t. If you were to blindside a bear that’s been shot with a .50 cal and couldn’t even move but you’re able to kill it with a sword, that doesn’t mean you’re stronger than the bear if you faced it at full health right ?
- 2,684
- 317
Wait, how is Grimmjow > Fullbring Ichigo who was slapping AMPED Volstanding Blue Quilge? Grimmjow literally only blindsided a tired Quilge that pretty much lost the power of Ayon who had just used the most he could to trap Ichigo. And no, it is not Ichigo's speed that is granting him the victory, but it is a factor. Quilge does note that Ichigo is strong and that is why he keeps Blut active but in doing so he cannot attack Ichigo at all.
Do keep in mind that Blut Vene been shown to be a great defensive edge, especially if holding up against Fullbring Bankai Ichigo who's Bankai basically had him manhandle Ginjo when both were pretty much equal Shikai to Shikai. In his Shikai Ichigo could fight Quilge even though he had used Voltstanding and even with the Ayon Amp Quilge Quote is forced into purely relying on Durability Amp because with Ichigo's speed he can't change fast enough which means that more than likely that Ichigo would murder Quilge if he drops his guard.
Speed does not necessarily grant you the power to one shot a opponent that much unless Ichigo's strength is notorious enough that with the Speed he had it would be ludicrous for Quilge to lower his defense.
Do keep in mind that Blut Vene been shown to be a great defensive edge, especially if holding up against Fullbring Bankai Ichigo who's Bankai basically had him manhandle Ginjo when both were pretty much equal Shikai to Shikai. In his Shikai Ichigo could fight Quilge even though he had used Voltstanding and even with the Ayon Amp Quilge Quote is forced into purely relying on Durability Amp because with Ichigo's speed he can't change fast enough which means that more than likely that Ichigo would murder Quilge if he drops his guard.
Speed does not necessarily grant you the power to one shot a opponent that much unless Ichigo's strength is notorious enough that with the Speed he had it would be ludicrous for Quilge to lower his defense.
Last edited:
- 1,058
- 341
Thank you lol and like Damage said, Urahara was only able to get a shot in when Quilge specifically didn’t use blut vene and that’s Urahara of all people we’re talking about. More further proof Quilge wasn’t on guard at all was because before Grimmjow killed him, he had just trapped Ichigo in the jail and already taken down Urahara, Orihime and Chad so he had nothing to worry about at the moment
If Quilge was really that much weaker than Urahara then his attack shouldn’t have damaged him to the point he couldn’t really even fight back and was telling Quilge to wait. I used to think the reason Urahara told Akon he couldn’t jump in between Ichigo’s fight was because he solely wanted to analyze it, but now I think it was a mix of him analyzing and because the fight fight was just that intense and they were that strong. Which is why he waited for Quilge to specifically use blut arterie instead of blut vene so he could damage him
Last edited:
- 13,509
- 5,665
In the middle of using an ultimate attack? You mean with his reiatsu and power going all out? So his stats would be at their peak? Yeah Grimmjow one shot Askin.
But I’m not forgetting anything. I remember all that and I don’t care about it because it is irrelevant. A hole in your chest doesn’t mean much when you already had your neck snapped and simply adjusted its positioning to make it all better. This is also Bleach where people having grievous wounds is irrelevant.
False equivalency. If I pull up with a sword and can split a big ass bear in half with one swing, it being shot or unable to move is irrelevant as I can still vertically split that bear in two.
Dunno why you are specifically highlighting Quilge being amped when that’s what I Ben saying this whole time.
He still had Ayon’s power and even said as much.
Ayon’s Power is what makes up the majority of Quilge’s stats at that point and this is shown when Ayon Quilge is able to block attacks from Ichigo with his sword when Ichigo first those Bankai. Ayon Quilge is physically comparable to FB Bankai and his problem was the speed, never the strength.
People really missing the fact that the Blut (Quilge as a whole) is barely relevant when Ayon’s physicals already broke through it and then Quilge added that power to himself. Ayon is the main thing that lets him contend and survive against Ichigo. Blut being off means that he is still over half (at the very least) of what Ichigo couldn’t scratch and Grimm still one shots his ass.
You are aware Ichigo never one shot Quilge and was never able to even without Blut Vene? Ayon Quilge directly blocks multiple attacks from FB Bankai and Urahara explains that the reason for him keeping Vene up was because of Ichigo’s speed.
So an argument from incredulity? Why is Urahara harming him an issue? This is the same guy who was fighting Aizen and the same guy who fights Askin, another guy > Quilge. The same guy actually that Grimmjow still one shot.
Literally irrelevant. Quilge not having Blut up doesn’t change him having Ayon’s stats.
Quilge himself is abysmally weaker than Kisuke. Ayon Quilge is where he starts having issues but he is still on that level.
Don’t even see why people are having such an issue with Grimmjow one shotting in the Quilge scaling chain when the other scaling chain implies the exact same thing with Askin.
- 4,108
- 3,130
A question, why many of those people are irrelevant in the chain?
Starrk was never equal to Rose, he literally destroyed him and Love together, and according to u, Barragan is nigh equal to Starrk.
Also how did u get that Shikai Kensei is above masked Rose? I dont remember that honestly
I dont remember much about the visord training zangetsu, but afaik we havent seen Rose fighting him, and Kensei’s fight was mostly off screen iirc.
So yeah Barragan and Starrk should be removed from there, unless Im forgetting something, you can correct me.
a complete disagree to this, Grimmjow should not scale to that, as everyone mentioned above, u are saying it as if Quilge was full power when he was one shotted, he was not, Kisuke said that he did a fatal damage/wound to him, that should have affected him, he was weaker, and Grimmjow scales to that weaker version which we dont know how strong he is.
Askin should be stronger imo, its true that Quilge absorbed that monster and got a power up so he wont be included in the statement of the schutzstaffel > any stern ritter, btw do we accept here that Ginjo got a power up in CFYOW or he was around the same level he was in during the fight vs Ichigo?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The only possible way I see around this, is Grimmjow remaining there at that tier, but Hallibel gets downgraded because iirc u said that she was the one who said Grimmjow would still lose to Barragan, and she thinks Grimmjow is in here level, so was can just say that she was wrong, and Grimmjow is >> her
- 13,509
- 5,665
It’s basically just to show how everything connects or else people might get confused by how we get from A to D.
Masked Love and Rose both take hits from Starrk and keep fighting. Even Love’s base (who is already injured from being caught in the blast of multiple wolves) takes a wolf point blank and is still able to fight which means that VT Zangetsu > R1 Starrk.
My mistake, that should be Love but I tend to get the names mixed up at times lol.
Rose = Love (this is simple enough that no one should try contest this), Kensei slaps Visored Training Zangetsu around and only has a single wound on his head whereas that same Zangetsu forces Love to put on his Mask or else be one shot. Even if it’s mostly offscreen, we see other people with mostly offscreen fights showing a bunch of wounds on there body at the end like Lisa.
Masked Hiyori who gets demolished by VT Zangetsu was able to fight against Harribel (admittedly with help from Lisa and Toshiro), base Lisa can fight against that Zangetsu and takes 10 minutes to lose against one that is continually getting stronger, base Lisa is also able to keep up with Harribel (Mask obviously helps), the shockwaves from the fights involving VT Zangetsu are causing Hachi to struggle with maintaining the barriers and we know he can contain Barragan with the barriers etc.
You are missing the fact that Quilge’s full power means nothing, he still has Ayon’s power which is vast bulk of his power in that fight. Ayon alone is superior to Voll Quilge’s Blut so removing the Blut doesn’t change anything when Ayon is bare minimum over 50% of his stats at that point. Even Quilge dropping Vollstandig doesn’t mean anything as that was a multiplier on his own power and not Ayon’s. So long as Quilge has that power, whatever Quincy technique he is or isn’t using really doesn’t matter since Ayon > all of that anyway. You wanna say FB Bankai wouldn’t get one shot? Grimmjow is still one shotting something half as powerful as what FB Bankai couldn’t scratch. No matter how you look at it, base Grimmjow is at the level of power where he can kick FB Bankai around like their first fight.
CFYOW Ginjo is definitely stronger than Lost Agent since he trained during TYBW, has better feats in the novels, and even gets statements for having a chance at fighting against Transcendent Hikone. My guy got a huge ass buff and I love it.
I would agree except that she is able to keep up with both Grimm and Nel in their fight with Hikone and Ikomikidome so she can’t exactly be that much weaker than them. Her being = Grimm and Nel has both feats and statements to back it up compared to Grimmjow nulling hax which he has never shown and the statement for power nulling is in regards to Aizen and Kenpachi, two of the most outlier Shinigami to ever exist.
- 1,058
- 341
@AnonymousBlank, I’ve seen people with Kenpachi boners before but I’ve never seen one with such a hard on for Grimmjow lmao. You say a hole in the chest is no big deal and Quilge acted like nothing when his neck was snapped yet I don’t see him using a technique that literally involves using reishi strings to help him to move when his neck got snapped.
I don’t wanna argue with a brick wall since your not gonna change your views no matter how much evidence is provided in that manga proves you wrong. Grimmjow killing a severely weakened Quilge somehow means he’s stronger than a full powered one
. I wouldn’t be surprised if you say Grimmjow could go toe to toe with Yhwach at this point lmao
Actually, Grimmjow’s profile literally has his base in the same tier as FB bankai Ichigo and his resurrection in the same tier as bankai Yamamoto. So I can’t even say you’re wrong at this point going strictly based off of those lol. But looking at the actual manga we both know that’s complete bullshit and I’m sure his key is gonna get correctly organized
I don’t wanna argue with a brick wall since your not gonna change your views no matter how much evidence is provided in that manga proves you wrong. Grimmjow killing a severely weakened Quilge somehow means he’s stronger than a full powered one
. I wouldn’t be surprised if you say Grimmjow could go toe to toe with Yhwach at this point lmaoActually, Grimmjow’s profile literally has his base in the same tier as FB bankai Ichigo and his resurrection in the same tier as bankai Yamamoto. So I can’t even say you’re wrong at this point going strictly based off of those lol. But looking at the actual manga we both know that’s complete bullshit and I’m sure his key is gonna get correctly organized
- 566
- 158
So I look up about TYBW profiles and suprised me the speed are downgraded.
Is there any CRT for this?
Is there any CRT for this?
- 1,058
- 341
@AnonymousBlank, the Grimmjow hard on comment was uncalled for and I apologize for that when you’re just stating your opinion on how you view things. But I do wanna ask this, do you think TS Ichigo grabbing his sword and looking surprised when Grimmjow flexed his reiatsu means he could possibly beat him? Cause that’s the vibe I’m getting from you right now
- 1,058
- 341
Yes there were a few crts for it. Though the profiles do need to be cleaned up a bit or have some new keys added. For instance, Kisuke and Mayuri are Sub Realistic+ possibly Realistic+ when Askin and Pernida are only Sub Realistic and Massively Hypersonic though they fought each other. So I think Kisuke and Mayuri need new keys for the novels
- 566
- 158
Whats the reason behind the downgrade?
- 4,108
- 3,130
Thats not what I meant, u said that Starrk is >= Rose which smh implies that Rose is on the level of Starrk which is not true, Starrk is clearly above him, he defeated Rose and Love together easily when he used the wolves
Yes, Kensei started the fight defeating VTZ but, as it was implied, the more he hollowfies the more he gets stronger, he started to push Kensei later and then the fight went off screan and we are shown Kensei bleeding from his head after the fight, the ones who Kensei easily blown up wasnt the same one who was about to attack Love with a cero, the one who fought Love was clearly on another level. And even tho Rose said that Love needs his mask in order to repel that Cero, he cant repel it in his base, its not stated that he would have died there. base Love blocked a cero from Starrk and so Starrk needed his wolves so its better to say that VT Zangetsu’s cero is > Starrk’s cero, but Starrk wolves are stronger, as we are shown, masked Love couldnt really tank their explosion and get away undamaged, while it was stated that he can repel a cero from VT Zangetsu
no? Barragan was able to destroy his kido, its even stated that Hachi was like buying time only, its not like Barragan was not able to get away, also Hachi used a mix of strong special barriers against Barragan so both situations are not the same.
well idk why u are making it seem as if Quilge has too stores of power, his own and Ayon’s power and he can switch between them. He absorbed his powers and combined it with his own, later he was heavily damaged by Kisuke, even if he hasnt lost that power completely, he was heavily weakened, to the point that he was barely standing, if it was really as u said and he was still above his 50% he should not be like that, which is why Im against scaling that Grimmjow to FB bankai Ichigo in this way honestly.
oh fine thx
then it will just be Hallibel speaking out of ignorance, the SRs were trying to destroy Reio’s remnants and Aizen came saying u idiots why are u attacking them with ur sword when u can just use ur Reiatsu, so maybe Hallibel doesnt know this lol
Im still against ur way of pulling it like this, we know that its done by reiatsu, it doesnt matter that he has shown it or not, Aizen did that against Soifon, its like saying Yama cant because he never did that. This whole thing is related to reiatsu and for some reason u find it hard to accept
Ovy7
He/Him- 2,500
- 2,091
A few calcs getting removed.
- 4,108
- 3,130
Oh dont worry about the Yama part, we got a statement that Aizen is still above Grimmjow, so characters like shikai Yama, Kisuke and maybe others will upscale if Im not mistaken
- 13,509
- 5,665
Lol I don’t mind the comment. If you believe that is actually the case, I got no problem with you saying so long as you are willing to back it up.
Lmao at Grimm scaling to TS tho. One of the most bullshit stances I ever seen for Bleach. Until Ichigo’s reiatsu is visible, everything he does and doesn’t do is irrelevant to his actual scaling. At best, I would say that scene supports Grimmjow being > the Femritters. This comment is something that’s actually insulting.
- 2,684
- 317
Do you guys have the quote where Halibel is mentioning that Baraggan would rod Grimmjow? Also I believe Baraggan needs a Prime Key since it really seems to point that Baraggan simply got weaker over time yet used to be comparable to Ikomikidomoe.
And if Halibel is legit saying Baraggan would beat up Grimmjow then I would agree with her since Halibel is someone with a good power reading. Like when she did make the mention of Ichigo's Reiatsu and even Toshiro's when he was nervous about Momo and Rangiku.
And if Halibel is legit saying Baraggan would beat up Grimmjow then I would agree with her since Halibel is someone with a good power reading. Like when she did make the mention of Ichigo's Reiatsu and even Toshiro's when he was nervous about Momo and Rangiku.
- 4,108
- 3,130
"It was because she knew his nature that Halibel, who was the true ruler of Hueco Mundo, did not call herself its king. No matter how those around them viewed it, the moment she took that name, she knew she would begin a fight to the death against Grimmjow.
Grimmjow as he was now, with his instinct back, would likely bare his fangs even knowing he would lose to the likes of Aizen or Barragan."
- 2,684
- 317
So Grimmjow is a giant nutjob, got it...Heck even less than a animal at this point, because animals know when to stand down because their instinct tells them so. Grimmjow doesn't have a instinct, he has Arrogance
- 566
- 158
You got a link? I want to see it
- 16,980
- 22,783
Orihime’s MHS/MHS+ calc and Renji’s FTL calc
- 5,631
- 4,853
why did orihime's get removed
- 16,980
- 22,783
The visuals of the explosion not matching the yield
- 5,631
- 4,853
did it get recalced?
