- 13,228
- 21,044
I guess I can understand that a bit but to my knowledge, having multiple feats of the same tier or in that ballpark isn't always necessary
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Baki verse downgrade
- Thread starter NikHelton
- Start date
- Status
- 3,069
- 1,659
- Thread starter
- #42
Musashi that scales to 7-A was cut with a glass bottle.
He was nearly beaten to death by Hanayama, who is pierced by a sniper rifle.
The main problem of the Baki verse is that all the feats of the verse are in the range 9-A, 8-C.
We have one impressive 8-B feat and one uncountable earthquake feat. Going to 7-tier seems unreasonable, even when we have a weapon claim.
We need real feats.
- 3,069
- 1,659
- Thread starter
- #43
If we had a Low 7-C feat and a straight High 7-A feat that we couldn't complain about - it wouldn't be a problem.
We would have a full feat and a supporting feat from the same tier.
However, the next feat is the calculation of 8-B, which barely fit into the standards
- 16,080
- 9,325
While it is true that the nuke statements are hypothetical, they still work as supporting evidence for Yujiro stopping the earthquake not being outlier. I'm more in favor of 7-C being made as "possibly" instead of flat out for this reason.
Listing 7-C as possibly also works in the case of the earthquake feat because of the ??? level of mechanics involved in Yujiro just stopping it with a punch. Remember that this is a verse where a people can purify the land by stamping their feet on the ground, crush coal into a diamond with their bare hands, and kiss a soul back into a body. You're looking for logic where there is none.
Listing 7-C as possibly also works in the case of the earthquake feat because of the ??? level of mechanics involved in Yujiro just stopping it with a punch. Remember that this is a verse where a people can purify the land by stamping their feet on the ground, crush coal into a diamond with their bare hands, and kiss a soul back into a body. You're looking for logic where there is none.
- 13,228
- 21,044
Possibly 7-C could make sense, though I don't fully know the verse
- 3,069
- 1,659
- Thread starter
- #46
Possible 7-C doesn't make sense since it's actually 7-A.
Moreover, a feat cannot be computed normally. The presence of supernatural elements and various manipulations do not affect our mathematics.
The bottom line is that this calculation just doesn't work.
Therefore, it is better for the verse to return to legal 8-A and stay there.
Moreover, a feat cannot be computed normally. The presence of supernatural elements and various manipulations do not affect our mathematics.
The bottom line is that this calculation just doesn't work.
Therefore, it is better for the verse to return to legal 8-A and stay there.
- 13,228
- 21,044
The radiated waves is 7-C
- 3,941
- 5,757
Still at work so when I get off will comment on everything
- 4,716
- 4,210
I'd be willing to compromise on this
Right now Yujiro being above nukes is purely hypothetical judging by the way they talk about it they haven't tried it yet since he lives in a city
This also makes since because the Baki 8-B feat could just be tremors and not an earthquake
Remind me again why it was 8-A before?
Cause if we're gonna do this might as well go all the way and make him High 8-C or 8-B based on Baki and the lightning feat
- 9,651
- 8,711
Which doesn't make much sense because you can't just stop an earthquake simply by countering its radiated waves, you have to stop the plates from moving, aka the total seismic energy, so I don't get how this feat would only count the radiated waves.
Might as well just make Yujiro 7-A if people are so sure this feat is a good representation of his actual strength on the series.
- 4,716
- 4,210
I've read the series and it's not
Just sayin...
- 9,651
- 8,711
The feat is ridiculous in itself, you can't stop an earthquake by dropping a 7-C nuke on the ground, it wouldn't do anything to it, it wouldn't even come close to reach the epicenter, which is where the earthquake is originating.
A natural earthquake is originating hundreds of kilometers underground, counteracting the radiated waves in the surface, which are only a fraction of the original earthquake, will not prevent further shaking.
What I'm trying to say is: It is impossible for a 7-C attack to somehow affect a natural earthquake and prevent it from occurring.
A natural earthquake is originating hundreds of kilometers underground, counteracting the radiated waves in the surface, which are only a fraction of the original earthquake, will not prevent further shaking.
What I'm trying to say is: It is impossible for a 7-C attack to somehow affect a natural earthquake and prevent it from occurring.
- 4,716
- 4,210
The current argument against that is that Baki is a goofy series with stuff that doesn't make sense so it could work in universe
Which I disagree with
- 9,651
- 8,711
I guess it's no longer a goofy series when it comes to using radiated waves, even though a natural earthquake is the subject in question.
But no one wants to open that can of worms.
People also often forget that in order to create a 7-C earthquake on the surface, you would have to actually cause 7-C levels of damage to the ground for it to occur, and the same applies to weaker or stronger earthquakes.
But no one wants to open that can of worms.
- 4,716
- 4,210
You'd have to change half the kinetic energy calcs on the site then since no-one seems to remember that rule when evaluating
- 9,651
- 8,711
There was a rule about this, but we've become so lenient that virtually any KE calculation is acceptable, unless it's a Planet KE level ball that crashes into a wall and only makes a small hole in it, that's where we put the line in our suspension of disbelief.
Yujiro's punch practically didn't do anything to the ground, surely there are better ways to measure his strength than this goofy feat.
- 13,228
- 21,044
I don't necessarily know the verse well, I kinda just pumped out the calc and that's it. My interpretation is based only on what I've seen from the profiles. I'd rather let those that actually know the verse handle whether or not we can actually scale this feat
- 9,651
- 8,711
The Baki verse do consistently shows Tier 8 feats, like aside from the nukes statements they don't really go beyond Tier 8.
And Itagaki loves his earthquake feats, but you'll never see him drawing Yujiro destroying numerous city blocks with a single punch like this, which makes me believe he doesn't really know how earthquakes work, or how strong they really are.
And Itagaki loves his earthquake feats, but you'll never see him drawing Yujiro destroying numerous city blocks with a single punch like this, which makes me believe he doesn't really know how earthquakes work, or how strong they really are.
- 13,228
- 21,044
Would these nuke statements create better consistency for Yujiro's feat?
- 4,716
- 4,210
Most of the "evidence" is that he's stated time and time again to be above a every nations military.
This is hammered in throughout the story over and over again but like Therefir says you don't need to be city level to be above the military, you can be tier 8 which is what they are without wanking those statements to absolute infinity
This is probably the best statement for City level is the quote above but even that just says "Nuclear weapons state"
Also the panels that I linked seem to disagree with that notion and these are from the story itself and not a guidebook statement
- 13,228
- 21,044
It doesn't seem to imply the opposite, just that they don't fully know and can't afford to try because he lives in a city
- 4,716
- 4,210
There's another statement but I can't remember the chapter it came from
Also this disproves it because it straight up confirms they've never used one on him
- 130
- 120
If we're going to start downgrading the verses just because their authors "don't know how strong X thing is", half of the site will be downgraded by about 2 levels
- 21,469
- 30,790
This is not true in the slightest.
The radiated energy is the energy of the shaking.
To stop the shaking, you stop the "quake", or the radiated energy.
The movement of the tectonics causes the radiated waves to form, but stopping the radiated waves stops the shaking.
The movement of the tectonic plates cause the shaking. Stopping the shaking doesn't require you to stop the plates, it requires you to counteract the shaking, which is done by counteracting the radiated waves that are shot out.
- 9,651
- 8,711
Stopping that radiated energy would not stop the movement of the plates, the radiated energy is only the energy carried by the seismic waves reaching the surface, not the total energy of the earthquake.
Since Yujiro stopped the entirety of a magnitude 6 earthquake, this means that he not only stopped the radiated waves, but the origin of the earthquake itself.
There is no other explanation as to why it would simply stop shaking, as the source of the earthquake, the epicenter hundreds of kilometers underground would just simply continue to release more radiated waves that would reach the surface.
Since Yujiro stopped the entirety of a magnitude 6 earthquake, this means that he not only stopped the radiated waves, but the origin of the earthquake itself.
There is no other explanation as to why it would simply stop shaking, as the source of the earthquake, the epicenter hundreds of kilometers underground would just simply continue to release more radiated waves that would reach the surface.
- 21,469
- 30,790
Nobody is talking about stopping the movement of the plates. All he did was stop the shaking. That isn't how an earthquake works.
An earthquake in definition is the sudden slip of a fault.
There wouldn't just be multiple sudden slips that keep producing more and more radiated energy batches as if it's a call of duty zombies wave.
The tectonic plates of the earth are always moving. The plates having a sudden rapid shift is what shoots out the radiated waves.
The radiated waves are the shaking, so stopping the shaking would be stopping the earthquake essentially.
When people say "he stopped an earthquake", they don't mean "they stopped the movement of the tectonic plates", it means "they stopped their effect on the planet", aka the radiated energy.
The only way to scale to the movement of tectonic plates is by either
A. Causing them to move
B. Having a statement of stopping their movement
Not every "earthquake stoppage" = "stopping the movement of the tectonic plates causing the quake"
- 3,069
- 1,659
- Thread starter
- #69
If he just stopped the radiated waves, then the earthquake would continue after a couple of seconds.
I don't know what is the best example.
Take a metal pan with a lid and put it on the included washing machine. The pan will begin to shake and bounce.
If you start to put pressure on the pan, it will stop shaking. But as soon as you let it go, it starts shaking again. Because the source is still affecting under it
- 21,469
- 30,790
Bad example. Really bad example.
Tectonic plates don't shake, they shoot out waves that shake what they pass through. The shaking is caused by the initial rapid movement.
An active washing machine is always shaking.
- 9,651
- 8,711
I know the plates are slowly moving and only when the stress on the edge overcomes the friction, it creates an earthquake.
However this doesn't mean the plate immediately enters at rest as it was before, what really happens is that an aftershock occurs as the displaced crust adjusts to the effects of the main earthquake.
That doesn't happen in Yujiro's case, at least not that I recall.
Not to mention there are other four main different waves that reach the surface, a single punch can't stop all those unless the origin of the earthquake was stopped as well.
I also think the feat itself makes no sense and breaks the laws of physics; you can't stop an earthquake by punching the ground, it's like trying to put out a fire by pouring more fuel onto it.
A powerful impact would only create more stress on the surface.
It's one thing to have a silly manga with silly feats, and another to have a feat that breaks basic logic, and then use real-life physics to calculate its energy.
However this doesn't mean the plate immediately enters at rest as it was before, what really happens is that an aftershock occurs as the displaced crust adjusts to the effects of the main earthquake.
That doesn't happen in Yujiro's case, at least not that I recall.
Not to mention there are other four main different waves that reach the surface, a single punch can't stop all those unless the origin of the earthquake was stopped as well.
I also think the feat itself makes no sense and breaks the laws of physics; you can't stop an earthquake by punching the ground, it's like trying to put out a fire by pouring more fuel onto it.
A powerful impact would only create more stress on the surface.
It's one thing to have a silly manga with silly feats, and another to have a feat that breaks basic logic, and then use real-life physics to calculate its energy.
Last edited:
- 130
- 120
If you're really going to disregard Yujiro's earthquake feat, which I personally disagree with due to KT's arguments above, I'd suggest using this scale: Yujiro currently has an accepted feat at 8-A caused by his presence alone.
As Hanayama implies the effect of endorphins on Baki seems to at least double his power, and the Demon Back should give him an even bigger boost, so it would be fair to consider at least 4x for an endorphins + demon back boost
This would give Baki and Yujiro 953.6 Tons, which is still 8-A, but on a larger scale than before.
- 3,069
- 1,659
- Thread starter
- #74
Hanayama simply says that Baki is 4 times stronger than him.
But yes, a calculation of 400 tons can be used
- 130
- 120
Hanayama says that Baki initially is twice as strong as him, so he activates endorphins and Hanayama says that he is now four times stronger, it's a very clear power increase.
- 130
- 120
Demon Back Upgrade>Endorphins, so it should be at least twice as well
So, Demon Back+Endorphins=4x
So, Demon Back+Endorphins=4x
- 3,069
- 1,659
- Thread starter
- #77
In fact, it's more like he's correcting himself.
Plus, his words are not the most reliable proof of the multiplier
- 130
- 120
Why is it so hard to accept this?
Hanayama isn't correcting his speech, Baki has become stronger and so the gap between them has widened
- 16,991
- 12,130
Can you post the scans for the endorphins and the Demon Back multiplier AF?
Also iirc Baki has no official translation and has a reputation of having some poorly translated shit. If you have the Raw scans of the statements I'll have them translated so we have an idea of consistency.
Also iirc Baki has no official translation and has a reputation of having some poorly translated shit. If you have the Raw scans of the statements I'll have them translated so we have an idea of consistency.
- 130
- 120
The only scan that gives us numerical values of the multipliers are the lines of Hanayama that I already linked, I don't know any others. About the translations being dubious, I think this concern is fair, but I don't have these scans in the original Japanese, maybe @NotoriouSoda does
- Status
Similar threads
