Baka Tier No Longer (Touhou Low Tier Upgrades)

[FantaRin_The_First]

Are we all okay with using at least 5-C for Meiling? I say 'at least' for it being only a portion of her energy being used to accomplish the feat. If so, I can go through the low tiers and decide where they'd scale roughly.

... I just realized if Meiling becomes 5-C, she can fight Master Roshi. Kek.

 

[RethPo]

Psycho or some staff member should give their imput on what to do on the 5-C thing.
Imma just do a list for where the ratings should be exluding any higher tiers they have

Cirno - 8-B
Patchouli - 8-B+ (just outright since she and alice are weak possibly even for youkai standards)
Koakuma - 8-B+
Alice 8-B+
Daiyousei - likely 8-B
Rumia - 8-B+ (Relatively dangerous youkai)
Layla - 8-B+ (Not sure about at least ratings for these four)
Merlin - 8-B+
Lyrica - 8-B+
Lunasa - 8-B+
Lily - 8-B
Chen - 8-B or 8-B+? (Shes weak and a kid by youkai standards)
Letty At least 8-B+
Wakasagihme - 8-B+
Sekibanki - 8-B+
Kagerou - 8-B+
Aunn - At least 8-B+
Kisume - At least 8-B+ (Ferocious youkai and an underground one too)
Minoriko At least 8-B+
Shizuha At least 8-B+
Medicine - 8-B+?
Tewi - At least 8-B+
Mystia - 8-B+
Wriggle - 8-B+
Nazrin - At least 8-B+
Eika - At least 8-B+
Narumi - At least 8-B+
Ringo - At least 8-B+
Kyouko - 8-B+
Seiran - At least 8-B+
Tokiko - 8-B+
Star - possibly 8-B
Luna - possibly 8-B
Sunny - possibly 8-B
Kosuzu - possibly 8-B
Rei'sen - At least 8-B+
Fairies - At most 8-B
Hieda - possibly 8-B
Alduin - At least 8-B+
Rinnosuke - possibly 8-B
Phantoms - 8-B
Lunar capital - At least 8-B+
Minitstry of right and wrong At least 8-B+
Gensokyo - Possibly or outright 8-B for first key, 8-B for second, 8-B+ for third

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Ah, sweet!

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Psycho or some staff member should give their imput on what to do on the 5-C thing.
Imma just do a list for where the ratings should be exluding any higher tiers they have

Cirno - 8-B
Patchouli - 8-B+ (just outright since she and alice are weak possibly even for youkai standards)
Koakuma - 8-B+
Alice 8-B+
Daiyousei - likely 8-B
Rumia - 8-B+ (Relatively dangerous youkai)
Layla - 8-B+ (Not sure about at least ratings for these four)
Merlin - 8-B+
Lyrica - 8-B+
Lunasa - 8-B+
Lily - 8-B
Chen - 8-B or 8-B+? (Shes weak and a kid by youkai standards)
Letty At least 8-B+
Wakasagihme - 8-B+
Sekibanki - 8-B+
Kagerou - At least 8-B+
Aunn - At least 8-B+
Kisume - At least 8-B+ (Ferocious youkai and an underground one too)
Minoriko At least 8-B+
Shizuha At least 8-B+
Medicine - 8-B+?
Tewi - At least 8-B+
Mystia - 8-B+
Wriggle - 8-B+
Nazrin - At least 8-B+
Eika - At least 8-B+
Narumi - At least 8-B+
Ringo - At least 8-B+
Kyouko - 8-B+
Seiran - At least 8-B+
Tokiko - 8-B+
Star - possibly 8-B
Luna - possibly 8-B
Sunny - possibly 8-B
Kosuzu - possibly 8-B
Rei'sen - At least 8-B+
Fairies - At most 8-B
Hieda - possibly 8-B
Alduin - At least 8-B+
Rinnosuke - possibly 8-B
Phantoms - 8-B
Lunar capital - At least 8-B+
Minitstry of right and wrong At least 8-B+
Gensokyo - Possibly or outright 8-B for first key, 8-B for second, 8-B+ for third

damn it i was already working on the scaling :v

Looks good, but I do think Letty's second key would scale to Meiling rather than just be vaguely above Cirno (unless you were talking about her first key, which is fine). Chen being weak for a youkai doesn't really impact her 8-B+ rating since we know the same is true of youkai like Rumia or Wriggle. Also, why is Kagerou "at least" 8-B+ when the other GYN members are just 8-B+? Aside from that I don't really have any issues with what's presented here.

 

[RethPo]

damn it i was already working on the scaling :v

Looks good, but I do think Letty's second key would scale to Meiling rather than just be vaguely above Cirno (unless you were talking about her first key, which is fine). Chen being weak for a youkai doesn't really impact her 8-B+ rating since we know the same is true of youkai like Rumia or Wriggle. Also, why is Kagerou "at least" 8-B+ when the other GYN members are just 8-B+? Aside from that I don't really have any issues with what's presented here.

Im thinking because shes also a kid by youkai standards too? If she should still be stronger im not against.
Kagerou was already listed with a higher rating than the others but idk if shes actually stronger
Lettys first key is above cirno. Her second key is just her being able to create an incident so it just scales to mid tier youkai (small town+)

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Im thinking because shes also a kid by youkai standards too? If she should still be stronger im not against.
Kagerou was already listed with a higher rating than the others but idk if shes actually stronger
Lettys first key is above cirno. Her second key is just her being able to create an incident so it just scales to mid tier youkai (small town+)

I mean... We could apply that same logic to characters like Rumia and Wriggle too. I think 8-B+ is more reasonable.

Yeah idk why Kagerou is listed as stronger, she should be on the same level as Waka and Sekibanki. 8-B+ for all of them across the board is fine.

Mid tier youkai are Meiling tier though... I also think we should decide on what metric to use for mid tier scaling, since from what I'm aware, nobody scales to Meiling directly. I'd prefer her 5-C rating not just exist in some vacuum. At bare minimum I think Raiko and other tsukumogami would scale by virtue of being casually much stronger than Nitori (enough so that the 1.3x upscaling increase would still be a massive lowball), and I think causing an incident should scale to that level since the scope of incidents is far above what a 7-C character could reasonably do.

 

[Mobi2]

In strange creators of outer world (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Stra.../Wakasagihime,_Sekibanki_and_Kagerou_Imaizumi) kagerou, Wakasahihime, and Sekibanki shared a character page together and all 3 of them were dismissed as being weak youkai/minor threats they all should be treated as around the same level.

 

[RethPo]

Mid tier youkai are Meiling tier though... I also think we should decide on what metric to use for mid tier scaling, since from what I'm aware, nobody scales to Meiling directly. I'd prefer her 5-C rating not just exist in some vacuum. At bare minimum I think Raiko and other tsukumogami would scale by virtue of being casually much stronger than Nitori (enough so that the 1.3x upscaling increase would still be a massive lowball), and I think causing an incident should scale to that level since the scope of incidents is far above what a 7-C character could reasonably do.

Updated the list with kagerou

Most incidents tend to be messing with weather or just causing a large amount of conflicts or possibly damage which is entirely possible for a town level to do.
The thing is you still need some kind of proof for youkai or characters to scale to her. At least with nitori shes an average kappa physically and kappa are just considered relatively strong and theres ways for people to scale to them. Meiling isnt even a specific species of youkai and is probably incredibly strong for one since shes a long time gatekeeper. She could be upgraded to low 2-C and nobody would be affected who isnt already there.

Also as a note, tsukumogami and others could be ten times stronger than nitori and still be town level, well over the one shot gap.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Also as a note, tsukumogami and others could be ten times stronger than nitori and still be town level, well over the one shot gap.

No, I mean they have a city level feat that would be even higher than that. My point is that they would more reasonably scale to Meiling due to being way out of most other youkai's league.

Most incidents tend to be messing with weather or just causing a large amount of conflicts or possibly damage which is entirely possible for a town level to do.
The thing is you still need some kind of proof for youkai or characters to scale to her. At least with nitori shes an average kappa physically and kappa are just considered relatively strong and theres ways for people to scale to them. Meiling isnt even a specific species of youkai and is probably incredibly strong for one since shes a long time gatekeeper. She could be upgraded to low 2-C and nobody would be affected who isnt already there.

Meiling not being a specific species means nothing for her scaling. Kappa having species-wide scaling is fine, but literally all that means is that kappa scale to other kappa. That alone would not allow other people to inherently scale to them. So while Meiling wouldn't be able to have other members of whatever species she is scale to her (because there are none), we could still scale others to her using the same logic behind Nitori's scaling regardless of that fact. The rules for low tier scaling were no less arbitrary then than they are now.

 

[RethPo]

No, I mean they have a city level feat that would be even higher than that. My point is that they would more reasonably scale to Meiling due to being way out of most other youkai's league.

Then, they can easily be city level, nothing wrong in having some diversity in the tiers.

Meiling not being a specific species means nothing for her scaling. Kappa having species-wide scaling is fine, but literally all that means is that kappa scale to other kappa. That alone would not allow other people to inherently scale to them. So while Meiling wouldn't be able to have other members of whatever species she is scale to her (because there are none), we could still scale others to her using the same logic behind Nitori's scaling regardless of that fact. The rules for low tier scaling were no less arbitrary then than they are now.

The only reason characters scale to kappa to begin with is because of either living on the mountain, or just being remarkably strong in general to the point where it makes no sense to be weaker than kappa who arent considered as some insanely powerful species (though still strong). Being out of most youkais league does not mean you magically scale to a single person and who has no actual true reference to their strength given without proof and act like theres some kind of hierarchy there.
Touhou having little references to power levels doesnt mean you can just scale people for no reason, unless it canonically makes no sense for them to be weaker which is entirely feasable for raiko and the likes who have no ties to meiling or the feat at all.

 

[RethPo]

Also im not sure why were agreeing on 5-C yet. We cant really use it unless calc members or staff here green light it being okay.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Then, they can easily be city level, nothing wrong in having some diversity in the tiers.

The only reason characters scale to kappa to begin with is because of either living on the mountain, or just being remarkably strong in general to the point where it makes no sense to be weaker than kappa who arent considered as some insanely powerful species (though still strong). Being out of most youkais league does not mean you magically scale to a single person and who has no actual true reference to their strength given without proof and act like theres some kind of hierarchy there.
Touhou having little references to power levels doesnt mean you can just scale people for no reason, unless it canonically makes no sense for them to be weaker which is entirely feasable for raiko and the likes who have no ties to meiling or the feat at all.

My point is that we're already doing that. We're scaling people based off of their general location and "yeah they're probably comparable". None of that changes if we were to scale characters to Meiling using the same logic. You don't seem to have an issue with the scaling we're currently using (especially since you're responsible for a decent chunk of it), and the core of that scaling does not change if we throw a 5-C feat into the mix. If you have a better solution, I'd love to hear it, because I'm not a big fan of most of the scaling justifications either. I'm just working with what's already there.

Also im not sure why were agreeing on 5-C yet. We cant really use it unless calc members or staff here green light it being okay.

Eh, doesn't really matter where the feat ends up, it's either high 6-A or 5-C it seems. I'm just saying it's 5-C since that's what most people seem to be okay with as of now.

 

[RethPo]

My point is that we're already doing that. We're scaling people based off of their general location and "yeah they're probably comparable". None of that changes if we were to scale characters to Meiling using the same logic. You don't seem to have an issue with the scaling we're currently using (especially since you're responsible for a decent chunk of it), and the core of that scaling does not change if we throw a 5-C feat into the mix. If you have a better solution, I'd love to hear it, because I'm not a big fan of most of the scaling justifications either. I'm just working with what's already there.

Some of its vague yeah, but the point is that kappa are generally considered a high mid tier species in power and being ridiculously strong assuming you dont properly scale should get you at least close. Meiling just has nothing to tie anybody to her or her possible species whatsoever (who arent already tier 2). Due to that as well as lack of proof its generally just better to keep her as a standalone tier... although on the topic of raiko and tsu's

They are listed as building level+ on their profiles to begin with due to likely scaling to hata cuz same species, but shes tier 2 now soooo....... Idk what should be done there actually...

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Some of its vague yeah, but the point is that kappa are generally considered a high mid tier species in power and being ridiculously strong assuming you dont properly scale should get you at least close. Meiling just has nothing to tie anybody to her or her possible species whatsoever (who arent already tier 2). Due to that as well as lack of proof its generally just better to keep her as a standalone tier...

We also do literally all of that for kappa. Look at the justifications for characters scaling to Nitori and tell me if these are somehow better than scaling characters to Meiling:

-(Her status as an incident solver means she is likely very high in the power balance of Gensokyo, although to an unknown degree. Should still at least scale to Kappa)
-(The youkai underground are quite strong and dangerous, even by youkai standards and should at least scale to Kappa as a result)
-(Should be comparable to youkai such as Nitori)

These are all incredibly vague and give no real explanation for how or why these things equate to scaling to Nitori specifically. Why is this acceptable, but scaling to Meiling isn't? We could literally just replace kappa/Nitori with Meiling and nothing really changes.

The second justification alone gives us reason to scale characters to Meiling, as there's no reason being a dangerous youkai by youkai standards would arbitrarily cap at kappa tier. If they're that strong by youkai standards, why wouldn't they scale to far stronger youkai like Meiling? As of now I suggest scaling underground youkai and tsukumogami to Meiling based on these reasons.

They are listed as building level+ on their profiles to begin with due to likely scaling to hata cuz same species, but shes tier 2 now soooo.......

Eh... I would prefer to use their own directly established scaling as opposed to "they're the same species so they're comparable". Like I can't imagine the silverware tsukumogami from FS would be anywhere near comparable to characters like Raiko or Kokoro. At least for moon rabbits we know they're generally superior to fairies and we have Rei'sen acting as Reisen's replacement.

 

[RethPo]

We also do literally all of that for kappa. Look at the justifications for characters scaling to Nitori and tell me if these are somehow better than scaling characters to Meiling:

-(Her status as an incident solver means she is likely very high in the power balance of Gensokyo, although to an unknown degree. Should still at least scale to Kappa)
-(The youkai underground are quite strong and dangerous, even by youkai standards and should at least scale to Kappa as a result)
-(Should be comparable to youkai such as Nitori)

Incident resolver, higher in the power balance, means she shouldnt be weaker than at best slightly above average youkai
Underground youkai live around the mountain area dont they? Living close to kappa territory plus being considered more dangerous than them is more than enough reason to scale to me.
Idk who the last ones justification belongs to so.

These are all incredibly vague and give no real explanation for how or why these things equate to scaling to Nitori specifically. Why is this acceptable, but scaling to Meiling isn't? We could literally just replace kappa/Nitori with Meiling and nothing really changes.

The second justification alone gives us reason to scale characters to Meiling, as there's no reason being a dangerous youkai by youkai standards would arbitrarily cap at kappa tier. If they're that strong by youkai standards, why wouldn't they scale to far stronger youkai like Meiling? As of now I suggest scaling underground youkai and tsukumogami to Meiling based on these reasons.

Okay i should be giving more proof here. In pmss Kappa are considered an average threat level (despite them possibly eating ur kids or fisting you to death). On top of that (at least on the main wiki page) kappa have wrestling matches and easily win against humans if they play fair. Given a strong enough human is implied to be able to somewhat fight with a kappa who are at best simply above average in youkai strength, youkai who have actual indications of being remarkably strong doesnt require much assumption to be that level.

Meiling has literally no weakness established to that extent like i said and as a result no reason for her to be some pinpoint for strong enough people to scale to especially when her feat is trillions of times greater than anything those characters have shown. At best you could make that argument for maybe reisen (which just opens up more issues with how to tier moon rabbits or just reisen herself) or people taking power from tier 2s (though at that point you might as well just give them a possibly tier 2 rating all together).
Theres just a massive difference between a species with above average youkai strength, and a single youkai who guards a mansion with tier 2s in it. The logic doesnt work the same in the slightest when you have no case for a comparison to make.

Eh... I would prefer to use their own directly established scaling as opposed to "they're the same species so they're comparable". Like I can't imagine the silverware tsukumogami from FS would be anywhere near comparable to characters like Raiko or Kokoro. At least for moon rabbits we know they're generally superior to fairies and we have Rei'sen acting as Reisen's replacement.

Fair enough, i think itd be best for you to edit those explanations then. If raiko and kokoro are just exceptionally strong then, i guess other tsukumogami would be small town+?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Incident resolver, higher in the power balance, means she shouldnt be weaker than at best slightly above average youkai
Underground youkai live around the mountain area dont they? Living close to kappa territory plus being considered more dangerous than them is more than enough reason to scale to me.
Idk who the last ones justification belongs to so.

Underground youkai, as far as I'm aware, have no indication of being near youkai mountain. Also, my point isn't that the scaling is bad (I use it myself a couple lines down) but that it could be reasonably used to scale underground youkai to Nitori OR Meiling. The point of these statements is that they have no reason to be exclusive to Nitori tier scaling when they are just as usable for Meiling tier scaling.

Okay i should be giving more proof here. In pmss Kappa are considered an average threat level (despite them possibly eating ur kids or fisting you to death). On top of that (at least on the main wiki page) kappa have wrestling matches and easily win against humans if they play fair. Given a strong enough human is implied to be able to somewhat fight with a kappa who are at best simply above average in youkai strength, youkai who have actual indications of being remarkably strong doesnt require much assumption to be that level.

...No? It says that they're actually fairly weak ("Their fighting skills are also comparatively low, so they seldom show themselves to humans."). Also, please do not use the main Touhou wiki as a source. It is rife with misinformation, much of which has derailed threads in the past or has been responsible for outright misinformation on our pages (infinite LotB, type 8 fairy immortality, whatever the hell Reimu's ability to float description is supposed to be, etc). If there's a scan for kappa and strong humans being comparable, cool. It needs to be from the source material though.

On the topic of PMiSS threat levels, though, we absolutely should not use them as a basis for scaling. For instance, Meiling, who has feats far higher than any kappa, is rated as "low" compared to a kappa's "average". It also places Wriggle above Komachi and Eiki, which is total bullshit, so it's more a measure of "willingness AND ability to cause harm" rather than just a power level scale. Which brings me to...

Meiling has literally no weakness established to that extent like i said and as a result no reason for her to be some pinpoint for strong enough people to scale to especially when her feat is trillions of times greater than anything those characters have shown. At best you could make that argument for maybe reisen (which just opens up more issues with how to tier moon rabbits or just reisen herself) or people taking power from tier 2s (though at that point you might as well just give them a possibly tier 2 rating all together).

Theres just a massive difference between a species with above average youkai strength, and a single youkai who guards a mansion with tier 2s in it.

Meiling is directly stated to be "not particularly strong" by youkai standards. Meaning, youkai that we know ARE perceived as strong (such as underground youkai and stronger tsukumogami like Raiko) absolutely have reason to scale to her.

Fair enough, i think itd be best for you to edit those explanations then. If raiko and kokoro are just exceptionally strong then, i guess other tsukumogami would be small town+?

I think Kogasa being small town+ is fine, but Yatsuhashi and Benben should be about comparable to Raiko since iirc they draw power from the same source. I would need to double check that though.

 

[RethPo]

Im going to bed soon. But could you possibly give the full context for meiling being called not particularly strong? That could scale a lot of characters to her if so.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It's her PMiSS page.

 

[RethPo]

Im guessing you agree with how strong kappa are then? Main point with the threat level is that theyre average despite them being known to still kill humans.

Not sure how i missed that for meiling but it does refer to her not specialising in a specific ability being the reason. "not particularly" more implies shes nothing crazy in power. Also a lot of "dangerous youkai" like you said have their levels of agressiveness taken into account. also meiling did consider the catfish to be a terrifying threat if thats anything to note.

Due to how high end meilings feat is i dont support random youkai scaling, but i do agree with incredibly strong characters at bear minimum. Could even sort out a list of who could scale to her, though thered be some possibly ratings.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Im guessing you agree with how strong kappa are then? Main point with the threat level is that theyre average despite them being known to still kill humans.

Not sure how i missed that for meiling but it does refer to her not specialising in a specific ability being the reason. "not particularly" more implies shes nothing crazy in power. Also a lot of "dangerous youkai" like you said have their levels of agressiveness taken into account.

Due to how high end meilings feat is i dont support random youkai scaling, but i do agree with incredibly strong characters at bear minimum. Could even sort out a list of who could

I do agree with Kappa being the baseline for "average" youkai who aren't quite fodder tier, so we can work most of the scaling around that.

Also since we seem to agree that scaling far stronger (but not tier 2) youkai to Meiling is acceptable, does this mean you're okay with underground youkai scaling? This would probably also apply to youkai like En'enra, but overall it's still a pretty small category.

 

[RethPo]

I do agree with Kappa being the baseline for "average" youkai who aren't quite fodder tier, so we can work most of the scaling around that.

Also since we seem to agree that scaling far stronger (but not tier 2) youkai to Meiling is acceptable, does this mean you're okay with underground youkai scaling? This would probably also apply to youkai like En'enra, but overall it's still a pretty small category.

Underground youkai..... theyre dangerous but their aggressiveness likely plays a role in that. Possibly high 6-A may not be so bad though, but its mostly the fact the underworld is close to the youkai mountain as well.
Tengu can also scale since theyre super powerful... although i noticed on hatates profile that shes low 2-C for tengu being top class (i thought this statement only applied to aya) and momiji and other tengu dont necessarily scale soooo.....

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Underground youkai..... theyre dangerous but their aggressiveness likely plays a role in that. Possibly high 6-A may not be so bad though.
Tengu can also scale since theyre super powerful... although i noticed on hatates profile that shes low 2-C for tengu being top class (i thought this statement only applied to aya) and momiji and other tengu dont necessarily scale soooo.....

Don't we currently justify their tier by saying they're generally considered dangerous even by youkai standards? If it were based on other youkai's perceptions of them, I don't think aggressiveness would play a role since youkai generally attack humans, not other youkai. I think flat scaling to Meiling is fine. Also, the SCoOW passage used to scale Aya and Hatate is just a general statement about tengu like them, though Momiji doesn't scale by virtue of not being a crow tengu. I can see possible Meiling scaling for her though.

 

[RethPo]

Momiji should be fine to scale... m-maybe even giant toad 0_0. To be dangerous you obviously need to not be total fodder in strength. But theyre also super agressive which is enough to be considered a danger. Possibly meiling tier should be better for undergrounds due to how vague it is i think. Realistically we should scale them all including kappa to doremy since shes a baku and considered weak despite her universal reality warping

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I can work with a possibly but I do think it's fine for a solid rating considering it isn't exactly less concrete than the other justifications we use for solid ratings. At this point we should probably wait for more input on the scaling though. I'm also against scaling any and all youkai to Doremy as that's a pretty slippery slope to just scaling anyone and everyone to high tier stats. I think treating her as the baseline for high tiers to upscale from is preferable.

 

[RethPo]

Heres the list btw

Lunar capital - City block+ to multi continent level
Giant catfish - Unknown, high 6-A with power absorption methinks
Enenra - multi continent level, powerful youkai that had to be sealed
Reisen - At least small town+, possibly multi continent?
Other Moon Rabbits - At least city block+, likely small town+, possibly multi continent (if you dont wanna scale reisen to moon level straight up)
Giant toad - Depends on whether tengu are afraid of it or not, either an outright or possibly rating
Momiji - multi continent level
Letty - At least small town possibly multi continent? The severity of the incident isnt made clear so...
Yamame - At least small town possibly multi continent
Parsee - At least small town possibly multi continent
Satori - At least small town possibly multi continent
Rin - At least small town possibly multi continentF
Seija - Big enough threat to cause everyone to gang on her so multi continent easy
Benben, Yatsuhashi, and Raiko - If raiko is reliably incredibly powerful then ill be fine with it. The other three you said you wouldnt scale super high tho?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Heres the list btw

Lunar capital - City block+ to multi continent level
Iku Nagae - Shes above kappa because shes powerful, lives above mountains and can take some of dragon gods power. But its super vague and doesnt have much reference to their strength from what i found so im not sure here.
Giant catfish - Unknown, high 6-A with power absorption methinks
Enenra - multi continent level, powerful youkai that had to be sealed
Reisen - At least small town+, possibly multi continent?
Other Moon Rabbits - At least city block+, likely small town+, possibly multi continent (if you dont wanna scale reisen to moon level straight up)
Giant toad - Depends on whether tengu are afraid of it or not, either an outright or possibly rating
Momiji - multi continent level
Letty - At least small town possibly multi continent? The severity of the incident isnt made clear so...
Yamame - At least small town possibly multi continent
Parsee - At least small town possibly multi continent
Satori - At least small town possibly multi continent
Rin - At least small town possibly multi continent
Murasa - Maybe??? Idknowwwwww
Eternity (marvel comics) - Another possibility im unsure about since a lot of their stuff is tier 2 supportive but not quite getting them there
Seija - Big enough threat to cause everyone to gang on her so multi continent easy
Mai and Satono - Theyre were given powers from onika but thats really all i have on them, not sure if theres much basis for meiling scaling
Shinmoumaru - Ancestors were higher. She was mainly building level to begin with due to scaling to yukaris train. But idk if theres any basis for high 6-A scaling
Kogasa, Benben, Yatsuhashi, and Raiko - If raiko is reliably incredibly powerful then ill be fine with it. The other three you said you wouldnt scale super high tho?

Looks good to me for the most part. Benben and Yatsuhashi would be comparable to Raiko due to a shared power source, while Kogasa would just be small town+. I think Shinmyoumaru should stay where she is (with the "likely far higher" still in place), I don't think Murasa has anything worthwhile for scaling so she should stay where she is, same for Eternity. Mai and Satono as well. Aside from those small issues, everything here looks reasonable, though wouldn't underground youkai be just town level from upscaling?

Also we really need to decide on what tier Meiling's feat even is lmao

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Anybody got any ideas? Personally, I would try to go with the lowball rating since it seems like the safest bet for now. At worst, if there is better proof, Fuji could just do another CRT about it-although, maybe something that is in the middle of the road could work? IDK.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Idk why we can't just do a surface vaporization calc or use a pre-existing one. I've gotten a little tired of doing CRTs only for them to get closed without being fully resolved, forcing me to spend time working on more CRTs. My backlog can only get so big y'know :v

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

To answer your question; we sadly just don't have a calc member on hand to do the calc and I have no idea if we can use pre-exisitng calcs meant for other verses. Honestly though..., me wants to just get Cirno & Nitori's ratings to be done for now since they already have reliable calcs that were accepted.

 

[BlastX]

I gonna go see if I can get someone to calc it.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

To answer your question; we sadly just don't have a calc member on hand to do the calc and I have no idea if we can use pre-exisitng calcs meant for other verses. Honestly though..., me wants to just get Cirno & Nitori's ratings to be done for now since they already have reliable calcs that were accepted.

Sure, as long as we have staff approval. I'm gonna be busy over the next few days though so someone else might need to do the edits.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I can do 'em.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Just make sure to add links for the relevant calcs and references for where they occur. For Cirno's feat use <ref>''Visionary Fairies in Shrine'', Chapter 3 </ref> and for Nitori use <ref>''Urban Legend in Limbo'' </ref> (she can technically do the feat in HM and AoCF but iirc the footage comes from ULiL so :v). I can gather scans for the feats themselves apart from the calc but that might be a little overkill lol

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Gotcha.

 

[BlastX]

From what I asked, it seems the Boros calc should be fine to use since it's generic as ****. Maybe I can try to get one staff or calc member to greenlight it for use.

 

[RethPo]

Sadly we cant get any touhou characters to fight master roshi because hax stomp.

Also should reisen be possibly moon level or just straight up ya think? Im also unsure how to properly justify iku being moon level so maybe she should stay where she is with possibly far higher?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

From what I asked, it seems the Boros calc should be fine to use since it's generic as ****. Maybe I can try to get one staff or calc member to greenlight it for use.

Cool. OPM calcs upgrading Touhou but not OPM is extremely funny so I'm 100% in favor of this.

Also should reisen be possibly moon level or just straight up ya think? Im also unsure how to properly justify iku being moon level so maybe she should stay where she is with possibly far higher?

Hmmmm... I think Iku can stay where she is with a 'possibly far higher' attached. As for Reisen, I think flat moon level is a bit more reasonable based on her status as an incident resolver. However, that does beg the question of if other moon rabbits would be "at least 8-B+, likely low 7-C+, possibly 5-C" or "at least 8-B+, likely/possibly 5-C".

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Sadly we cant get any touhou characters to fight master roshi because hax stomp.

Meiling would probably work if I gave Roshi prep time and prior information. Idk. Will figure something out in the future... could always throw out other 5-C folks.

Cool. OPM calcs upgrading Touhou but not OPM is extremely funny so I'm 100% in favor of this.


Hmmmm... I think Iku can stay where she is with a 'possibly far higher' attached. As for Reisen, I think flat moon level is a bit more reasonable based on her status as an incident resolver. However, that does beg the question of if other moon rabbits would be "at least 8-B+, likely low 7-C+, possibly 5-C" or "at least 8-B+, likely/possibly 5-C".

Agreed. Funniest thing ever, and the fact that this is probably the only way that OPM is ever going to interact with 2hu in this site makes it even more funnier.

And what is bolded is what I think is correct. Namely cuz Reisen does have very decent feats and experience, but it is up to you. BTW. Should update the starting post to reflect what has happened and make it easier for others to know what is happening and agree with this CRT.

 

[BlastX]

Reisen the Moon Rabbit become Moon Tier, that's funny.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Wait

IIRC the standards on lightning feats for AP/durability are being discussed and they might be acceptable now? That could be a good end to scale non-Cirno tier fairies to, if and when that goes through. Reason being that the three fairies could tank natural lightning mid-flight. 9-A+/8-C for the non-Cirno fodder seems a bit more reasonably than just "likely 8-B".

And what is bolded is what I think is correct. Namely cuz Reisen does have very decent feats and experience, but it is up to you. BTW. Should update the starting post to reflect what has happened and make it easier for others to know what is happening and agree with this CRT.

I can do that a few hours from now.