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Awakened Demon Lord Rimuru Tempest vs End God Mode Medaka Kurokami

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When all fiction erases something it is made so that "it never happened". The several statements, the explanation of All Fiction and how it works by ajimu and just general logic lead to it erasing something from the entire timeline.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
When all fiction erases something it is made so that "it never happened". The several statements, the explanation of All Fiction and how it works by ajimu and just general logic lead to it erasing something from the entire timeline.
Click to expand...
@Firephoenixearl, if All Fiction doesn't have the statement then you should not assume it can do Existence Erasure from timeline because like the Existence Erasure page said It can only be judged by what it has accomplished since the means vary from character to character and saying it can would be No Limits Fallacy (NLF).
 
Medaka erases with Causality Manipulation. Just because the obtained result is similar doesn't mean they are the same. That's like someone with resistance to willpower manipulation will resist GER's Causality Manipulation on someone's will.
 
Can it actually erase/affect Rimuru's soul too without a corresponding soul-hax ability? His low-godly is soul-based. Note that only direct attacks against the soul fall within non-physical interaction, but not roundabout ways like through All of Fiction. Can you just by-pass the need for soul-hax like that? We had a similar discussion about the interaction of mind-hax and soul-hax in another thread a few days ago... I hope it doesn't become a 400+ posts long discussion like that, but I'd argue that you Medaka shouldn't be able to hax a soul like that without the appropiate feats she either got herself or can scale to.

In addition there's the imaginary barrier. Yes, it is "imaginary". Rimuru is within a barrier that is, I repeat, imaginary. Now what does "All of Fiction" affect again? It's "real" things. She can turn "real" things into fiction. What is "imaginary"? It's "not real". Based on that it can be said that Rimuru with Uriel shouldn't even be affected by All of Fiction.
 
According to SBA, Medaka doesn't even know what Rimuru looks like let alone anything else about him. Pretty sure she actually doesn't know his name either. She is literally dropped into New York, 4km away from someone she doesn't know, has never seen, and cannot currently see, with just an understanding that she needs to kill "this person". Under these conditions, can she use All Fiction IMMEDIATELY VIA THOUGHT, AS A FIRST INSTNCT? If the answer is no, then my proposed scenario occurs. If the answer is yes, I would like feats and or an explanation as to why.
 
Paul Frank said:
You guys are taking the sba lack of knowledge way too far

The lack of knowledge is they don't know eachother's strengths weaknesses or powers

If they didnt know who they were fighting There would be no fights
Click to expand...
 
@Neo yes by virtue of mechanics. All Fiction as it was said by Ajimu erases both the cause and effect. So what it does is

"Rimuru never had a point when she came to existence, therefore nothing about her exists"

If Rimuru never begin existing, she would logically never have a soul either. We discussed this a while back. Logical assumption make causality based EE erase everything about an individual because "if he never existed, there is no reason he should have a soul, a mind or a body".
 
@Kingofwolves999 They argue that she can do just that because Medaka can gain infinite speed with just a thought (honestly she and Rimuru should both have it activated from the beginning, considering they start off in "battle-ready" states, according to SBA, so if they have basic speed amps, they should have them activated just like magical girls who need to transform start off in transformed from) and then Rimuru would be unable to do anything since she can take an infinite amount of actions while Rimuru wouldn't even be able to do a single thing or even have a single thought which would only result in either a stomp for Medaka (since Rimuru literally can't do anything) or a "paradox inconclusive" because Rimuru never gets to move while Medaka with infinite stamina never "runs out of energy", but can't finish him off, hence a "paradox inconclusive", since the fight continues eternally for that one moment.

That assumes that the "speed amped to infinity" includes thought speed, which I'd like to see some proof for, to be honest.
 
By SBA, she knows she is fighting "someone." Given the distance and range of these characters, unless she can immediately sense Rimuru through his passive no-sense zone barriers, she would need to actively go into New York and find him in order to know where he is or what he looks like.

I am not twisting SBA to fit my stance; I'm literally just using it as it should be. They are dropped in New York with the base understanding that they need to fight the other person that exists here. She knows of his existence, and knows that he is in New York. THAT IS ALL. The most of his location she could possibly know is that he is 4km away from her. Other than that, she knows NOTHING about Rimuru. Not his name, his height, his powers, etc. My question, as I have been stating, with this limited information, can she erase him via All Fiction IMMEDIATELY as a first thought? Even while bloodlusted, is there some limitation that stops her from leading with this ability from 4km away from someone she has no knowledge of? If the answer to this is no, my scenario occurs and we can continue the debate from there. If yes, then give explanations and feats. I'm not asking for much, just a yes or no answer.
 
"Moving speed amped to infinity"

>Need proof that the thought speed is increased as well

I mean you do know how the proces of "moving" works right?
 
Firephoenixearl said:
@Neo yes by virtue of mechanics. All Fiction as it was said by Ajimu erases both the cause and effect. So what it does is

"Rimuru never had a point when she came to existence, therefore nothing about her exists"

If Rimuru never begin existing, she would logically never have a soul either. We discussed this a while back. Logical assumption make causality based EE erase everything about an individual because "if he never existed, there is no reason he should have a soul, a mind or a body".
Click to expand...
That doesn't work. Rimuru is a reincarnator. His current self, which Medaka would obviously target, was a reincarnated individual. It's literally impossible to target everything about him, like his previous life, without also affecting his soul. And affecting his soul isa big no-no without soul-hax. So... I don't know. It's an odd case, but it shouldn't work so simply. Also Rimuru got sort of deeply interwoven into a stable timeloop scenario. I am not sure his past can just be "erased" either, since it would cause a timeparadox in Rimuru's own world, unless it also affects others, like a High 4-C timetraveler whose timetravel ability has a 2-C range.
 
Infinite speed is not on her profiles so it should not be argument.
 
Elizhaa said:
Infinite speed is not on her profiles so it should not be argument.
Click to expand...
FTL. All Fiction can erase time for Pseudo-Teleportation and Pseudo-Time Stop

Inf Speed Amp is what the Pseudo Time Stop is saying.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Elizhaa said:
Infinite speed is not on her profiles so it should not be argument.
Click to expand...
FTL. All Fiction can erase time for Pseudo-Teleportation and Pseudo-Time Stop
Inf Speed Amp is what the Pseudo Time Stop is saying.
Click to expand...
Rimuru has resistance to Time Stop and has teleportation so I am pretty sure that it should not be a method of winning.

If we are allowing speed amp, Rimuru has Massively FTL+ reaction speed (Because of Thought acceleration his thought processing capability is accelerated by a million to ten million times, which allows him to react to things he normally wouldn't be able to perceive) so again it should not be a method of winning.
 
If it really works as I understand it does and can be used without limit then Medaka should be able to stomp almost anyone other than those who can directly kill her bloodlusted form with their first thought (though I'd argue having it on from the beginning is the pre-requisite for the SBA's "combat-ready" form, i.e. this "single-thought" obstacle condition might not even be neccessary for her) and/or those who have infinite speed themselves (speed equalization would IIRC equalize to the individual with higher speed then).

No I mean that. How can you even do anything whatsoever to someone with infinite speed and infinite stamina if you have less speed than that? Absolutely nothing. I explained it earlier, but even if all her attacks fail, the enemy wouldn't have a victory condition unless they can kill her directly withhin the first euqalized thought-unit (and based on the SBA's "combat ready" description, I'd argue even that wouldn't work). No matter what, the moment when Madoka's speed amp is active, the enemy becomes unable to react forever, unless their speed was infinite or more to begin with. It's broken beyond belief.

So is that just going to be it? Note that if even a single character in Medakaverse was able to move while she used this, then that character MUST have infinite speed too, period. If not it would prove that Medaka doesn't REALLY gain infinite speed. But if there is no such contradiction then Medaka probably shouldn't have all the losses she had. You should "replay" the matches again.
 
FTL. All Fiction can erase time for Pseudo-Teleportation and Pseudo-Time Stop
Inf Speed Amp is what the Pseudo Time Stop is saying.

Rimuru has resistance to Time Stop and has teleportation so I am pretty sure that it should not be a method of winning.

If we are allowing speed amp, Rimuru has Massively FTL+ reaction speed (Because of Thought acceleration his thought processing capability is accelerated by a million to ten million times, which allows him to react to things he normally wouldn't be able to perceive) so again it should not be a method of winning.

No, Elizhaa. They argue that it's not "actual time stop" but only "pseudo-time stop" that somehow is infinitely stronger than regular timestop because it only affects the time of Medaka herself somehow and boost her speed to infinite as an amp, and is therefore not affected by speed equalization. If that's how it works then it's broken beyond repair since it doesn't actually "affect others" so there is nothing to resist and only speeds up Medaka herself instead. With infinite stamina it's broken beyond repair if it can really be used limitlessly.

But I am not sure it can just be accepted like that, since she can move or attack for all eternity with no chance for a counter-attack or even any reaction by thought, basically catching a loop-hole of the whole "speed equalization" idea. It's frankly speaking absolutely ridiculous as an ability.
 
I mean it has to be on her speed section of profiles if she has a speed boost techniques.

Also, from the Versus Thread Rules, her speed boost even if accurate, it would not be allowed.

  • During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character.
 
It's escpacially notable that it creates a "scenario paradox". Logically at some point her "move" should end, but bloodlusted she'd logically never gift her opponent an opportunity if she doesn't have to. So if she uses it against someone whose defenses are unpenetratable for her, the match continues for all eternity because she never dispell her ability. But obviously her enemy in that state is not defeated and might even eventually beat her, but that "never ending moment" just never ends, but it doesn't actually freeze anyone over. She just never stops moving, but again, the enemy never gets opportunity to do anything, but again that enemy is not sealed, BFRed or incapped, she just moves fast, etc.

You see where this is going? It's basically causing a paradox within the VS Battle rules. Rather, it's a scenario that no actual rules appear to exist for yet. It's likely one of the reasons why speed equalization was introduced in the first place: To give finite speed characters an actual chance to have a fight against infinite speed characters (of course not the only reason). But this infinite speed amp with unlimited duration kind of "breaks the game".
 
No one ever reacted to All Fiction in the series.

Also, this thread made me realize that bloodlusted Medaka is basically Kumagawa lol
 
It still gives her infinite speed though

Let's say Medaka runs 30 miles in an hour

She erases her time with all fiction

She now ran 30 miles in 0 seconds which is infinite speed

Speed=D/T

When you erase your time you get t=0 which means that the equation is now S=D/0
 
You can't get resistance to something that doesn't affect you

In addition I think you forgot that no time passes for Rimuru so there is no resistance to be gained
 
I think that whole time erasure ability might need a staff discussion or something, since the possibility of a bloodlusted Medaka causing a paradoxial situation could easily happen, but it shouldn't just be assumed to be an inconclusive if she can't defeat her opponent and just keeps the ability active for all eternity.

No, seriously. This is a broken-beyond-repair loophole in the VS Battle rules. In any battle against anyone who doesn't stomp her within the first "thought unit" (or going by SBA she might even have it active from the beginning) or got infinite speed themselves, then Medaka practically can't lose.
 
NeoSuperior said:
Wait, is it a constantly active amp, or is it something you do after the fact?
Click to expand...
It work like this: She can also make her time zero so that her movements become virtually instantaneous, granting her Pseudo-Teleportation and Pseudo-Time Stop.

It is a weaker time-stop, to me,
 
No, from what I understand it's like Kiritsugu Emiya's Time Accel/Infinite Time Control, just upgraded to an "Accel Infinite" version of that and can be used without limits. It doesn't affect anyone or anything else other than the user's own "internal time" so it supposedly works like a speed amp. Basically it's a loophole within the VS Battle rules.
 
NeoSuperior said:
No, from what I understand it's like Kiritsugu Emiya's Time Accel/Infinite Time Control, just upgraded to an "Accel Infinite" version of that and can be used without limits. It doesn't affect anyone or anything else other than the user's own "internal time" so it supposedly works like a speed amp. Basically it's a loophole within the VS Battle rules.
Click to expand...
I mean it was accepted from here: Major Medaka Box Revisions. It is still a speed amplication. Also, any abilities that works like a speed boost is a speed amplification, NeoSuperior.
 

Preparation time: None. That means there is no time between the character knowing there is going to be some battle and the point they may start killing each other. They are, in a single instant, transported to the battlefield from their everyday activities, equipped with their equipment, transformed to the character version they battle in and given the correct state of mind. In the same instant the battle starts and they may attack each other. They are assumed to not be surprised or disorientated from the sudden start.
Considering that, shouldn't any speed-amps be active beforehand? Since it's the "version they battle in". Why would magical girl transformations count, but not an amp they'd obviously start with being activated in their current mindset?

Also I want to note that saying "well he could have theoretically killed her in his first thought!" is non-sense if he doesn't do so in his bloodlusted form. Unless you say he can, in which case he wins by doing just that, since bloodlust = no PIS and no CIS. In addition Medaka doesn't have self-sustenance type 1, so she'd need to pause her ability to breath, unless... let me guess... she can just "All Fiction away her need to breath" or something like that, right?
 
NeoSuperior, not really, because speed amp required activation. Transformation are different because they usally give a higher tier that necessaite a new key that is in turn used for vs fight.
 
If that's the case, then it should really be re-written in the SBA page to reflect what you said.

Oh right, Rimuru can actually take this. I forgot Rimuru got parallel processing, so he can do something else alongside activating thought acceleration, which he can just leave to Raphael. Medaka's speed becomes infinite but at the same time she gets her soul taken. Her soulless husk falls over. The end.

And even if Medaka manages to amp her speed in time, she still can't use her causality manipulation on Rimuru within his imaginary barrier because she cannot sense, nor locate him within. Her lack of spatial hax makes her unable to break in too. Basically she can't do anything. So it would ultimately lead to the "eternal moment paradox" (what I decided to dub it), since she can't beat him but she'll never ever stop the "moment" so it continues forever... unless she runs out of breath, but I am sure it's only a matter of time until someone mentions something about "thinking away her own need for oxygen" and whatnot. Still, the paradox remains.
 
Instant Death : an ability which kill people just by looking at them

Fear Haki: Shion's ability which inflicts insurmountable fear on the target, and kills them on a spiritual level.

Chaotic Fate: Shion's ability that manipulates fate as the attack has cook's ability of "the outcome is rewritten" imbued in it. It is a slash that brings the results that the user wishes for. Even if fate said that something cannot be cut, this ability will still allow the user to cut through it.

Here is the wombo combo

Pick one

Rimuru looking at you means death

Rimuru release His aura means death

Rimuru rewrite the outcome even if fate says no you Will ded
 
GLHF22 said:
Instant Death : an ability which kill people just by looking at them
Fear Haki: Shion's ability which inflicts insurmountable fear on the target, and kills them on a spiritual level.

Chaotic Fate: Shion's ability that manipulates fate as the attack has cook's ability of "the outcome is rewritten" imbued in it. It is a slash that brings the results that the user wishes for. Even if fate said that something cannot be cut, this ability will still allow the user to cut through it.

Here is the wombo combo

Pick one

Rimuru looking at you means death

Rimuru release His aura means death

Rimuru rewrite the outcome even if fate says no you Will ded
Click to expand...
Thats nice and all, but how is that faster than AF? Looking at your opponent is not faster than thinking. Releasing a aura is not faster tgan thinking
 
Seeing as Rimuru doesn't have resistance to Causality Manipulation (which he has in this key apparently but isn't on his profile) and Medaka doesn't have NPI (even though Bookmaker has feats of doing this/All fiction) we should probably put the thread on hold.
 
First Witch said:
GLHF22 said:
Instant Death : an ability which kill people just by looking at them
Fear Haki: Shion's ability which inflicts insurmountable fear on the target, and kills them on a spiritual level.

Chaotic Fate: Shion's ability that manipulates fate as the attack has cook's ability of "the outcome is rewritten" imbued in it. It is a slash that brings the results that the user wishes for. Even if fate said that something cannot be cut, this ability will still allow the user to cut through it.

Here is the wombo combo

Pick one

Rimuru looking at you means death

Rimuru release His aura means death

Rimuru rewrite the outcome even if fate says no you Will ded
Click to expand...
Thats nice and all, but how is that faster than AF? Looking at your opponent is not faster than thinking. Releasing a aura is not faster tgan thinking
Click to expand...
how is faster?

he see medaka and medaka dies
 
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