- 1,898
- 989
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Avatar Discussion Thread
- Thread starter SuperStar
- Start date
- 339
- 154
If we're referring specifically to that instance on the boat during the thunder storm
Iroh had moved his arm well before the lightning even came on panel
There's nothing MHS or even HHS in Avatar-verse
- 1,898
- 989
Because he's seeing the lightning bolt coming towards him offscreen? Like I said, he's still getting his arm into position when the bolt is on-frame.If we're referring specifically to that instance on the boat during the thunder storm
Iroh had moved his arm well before the lightning even came on panel
There's nothing MHS or even HHS in Avatar-verse
It's not like he's taking a lucky guess at where the lightning is going to end up. He didn't raise his hand directly upward, thinking it would come from directly over him.
And aside from this feat, there's also Azula's lightning shooting into the sky that I linked above, and all of the almost point-blank explosion dodging feats that Aang, Korra, Zuko, and Toph have.
- 339
- 154
He's drawing it in like a lightning rod, he isn't reacting or catching the lightning bolt. He's not taking a lucking guess but he doesn't have to because the lightning is coming toward him since he's drawing it in
Best case scenario Iroh moves his hand a few centimeters which still wouldn't have him sniffing the crack of HHS let alone MHS
- 2,740
- 2,060
Did a calc
vsbattles.fandom.com
Avatar: The Last Airbender: Zuko redirects Ozai's lightning
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 4,932
- 1,662
Do we actually know how fast the lightning is in Avatar? I’m pretty sure Zuko runs in front of Azula’s lightning at some point.
- 1,898
- 989
I already addressed that argument Here.
- 1,898
- 989
I literally posted the scene earlier.
Apologies for the double post, not sure if you can insert quotes into edits.
- 4,932
- 1,662
The double post is fine.
The scene is still a problem though since that’d mean Zuko has crazy travel speed which is not the case in universe.
- 1,898
- 989
I mean, a calc is a calc. And he didn't travel that far, so couldn't we just classify it as reaction speed?
- 4,020
- 2,608
It would be movement speed, just not travel speed
- 339
- 154
Again, best case scenario he moved his hand a few inches
Also Iroh didn't have to move an inch from his position, so either he got extremely lucky and happened to be exactly where the lightning was going to strike
Or the more likely scenario that Iron was able to act as a lightning rod and draw it in
Seriously between the time Iroh moved his hand when the lightning was off screen, and the time the lightning came back on screen, how far do you think Iron moved his hand? Maybe 6 inches? Maybe a foot?
Lets say he moved it a foot (which is being generous) even if we use the gross over-estimate of the speed of lightning this site uses of mach 1300 (again major over-estimation but I'll humor it) Iroh moving his hand 1 foot before mach 1300 lightning lets say 50 feet rough estimate, would at best be in the high hypersonic range
No he wouldn't lmao what on Earth makes you think Zuko would be able to draw the lightning in because Iroh did when Iroh at this point was arguably the best fire bender on Earth and Zuko was an absolute chump in comparison?
Iroh taught Zuko the motions on how to re-direct lightning, what makes you think Zuko is going to use a technique he's never used in practice before to draw lightning toward him?
Also lets keep in mind that when Iroh re-directed lightning, they were on a large metal boat which would made it easier for the lightning to get close enough for Iroh to draw it in and re-direct it, vs Zuko who was on a cliff screaming and yelling at lightning to come to him
- 339
- 154
No we don't, there's never been any evidence in the entire series of lightning from bending = natural lightning speed
Did a calc
Avatar: The Last Airbender: Zuko redirects Ozai's lightning
Yeah no.....this only works if you operate under the assumption that all lightning bending = lightning speed when there is zero evidence of this
And considering arrows are a threat to characters including Aang himself,
Anyone trying to peddle this crap of lightning speed is going to have a bad time
- 173
- 107
He was actively trying to get hit. If he could draw it to himself he would have.
- 339
- 154
No, because he doesn't have that ability to do so, also with Iroh the lightning came close enough to where he could draw it in
So not only were Iroh's circumstances different, Iroh has a far greater level of skill that Zuko lacks
- 173
- 107
Aang was dodging them with little issue until he was distracted by grabbing frogs. Zuko literally shoots one out of the air. We already have feats that would put them far above the speed of an arrow in terms of reaction speed. This is basically an irrelevant point. I agree with lightning speed being too high, but not because arrows exist.
- 339
- 154
Aang got pinned down and was frantically running for his life, he sure as hell wasn't dodging them with little issue,
If reacting to lightning bending is what you're going to use then you really don't have anything far above the speed of an arrow in terms of reaction speed
- 173
- 107
Nothing suggests that Iroh has the ability either. It's never mentioned or shown in a way that doesn't require headcanon. The most logical conclusion is that he noticed it coming and moved his body into position. The feat just isn't super impressive, but it is still a feat.
- 173
- 107
Aang ran because he's non-confrontational and had a goal. He was never actually hit until he literally stopped moving so he could pick up frogs.
I reject the idea of bender lightning being natural. But the characters have reacted to explosions on a number of occasions, which are quite a bit faster than arrows. There's also the calc from the lava bending feat which we can get attack speed from.
- 339
- 154
Sure bud, because this naturally how lightning flows, in an arc and it also happened to coincidently land exactly where Iroh happened to be standing
- 339
- 154
Sure, because this is the face of someone who isn't frantically panicking and running for dear life, he seems like he's having a casual time and easily dodging arrows
Look at him go
Which explosions, by all means please show specific examples
- 173
- 107
Being panicky when he gets ambushed doesn't change the fact that he dodged them lol. Also, are we suggesting that he's slower than Zuko who casually shot an arrow out of the air? Just curious.
I don't have a compiled list of every occasion. I'll show what I happen to have saved in places and mention some others off the top of my head.
Here's Korra reacting to one
Zuko throwing up a shield to block the explosion of his ship
Fights against Combustion Man (and P'Li I suppose, though Aang has a pretty explicit speed feat against CM)
Some comic stuff, like Toph blocked an explosion inside a factory or Mako blocked an explosion from some bombs that were set up to kill him.
- 1,898
- 989
Like Wings said, Aang was distracted at the moment by finding frogs for his friends. Both Sokka and Zuko have feats of dodging/hitting arrows, and their attackers were closer to them then Aang's was to him.
And to prove that lightningbending is natural lightning, LightningBolt Zolt's lightning degraded into fire while his bending was being taken away. As shown before, firebenders produce and control natural fire. Why would unnatural lightning turn into natural fire?
Anyways, since this dude is being needlessly antagonistic, I suggest people just ignore him.
- 173
- 107
Honestly, there isn't really a distinction we draw between "natural" and "unnatural" fire. All we really care about is whether it's hot, and how much. So it could easily be "unnatural" fire and just not matter.
- 15,593
- 22,894
Yeah we’re definitely not disregarding alll the verse’s speed feats based on Aang dodging arrows. Ignoring that it’s not even being a real Anti-Feat the arrow showing is simply outnumbered by higher feats.
- 339
- 154
That's the entire point, no one is arguing Aang couldn't react to an arrow but that arrows are still clearly enough of a threat to where he needs to run frantically to avoid getting pegged by one
If arrows are causing that much of an issue I could only imagine what Aang would do if he had a team of well trained snipers with .50 cal gunning for him
There is no such thing as "natural" or "unnatural" electricity, there are natural and unnatural SOURCES of electricty. You need to prove that lightning from bending is as fast as cloud to ground lightning, degrading into fire tells us nothing about how fast bending lightning is
This is a fair take, no one is disputing super-hypersonic reaction speeds
What I am disputing is MHS because of lightning bending
Last edited:
- 1,898
- 989
I submitted a couple of calculation requests if anyone wants to take a crack at them.
- 4,932
- 1,662
The fact is though that Zuko ran in front of a bolt of lighting. That should be travel speed since there’s no reason he couldn’t maintain his sprint for like 10 seconds.
- 339
- 154
Anyway I can put the lightning argument to rest
4:02 Ozai fires lightning at Aang
If you notice the top of one of the pillars gets knocked down and starts falling....it falls completely off screen before Ozai's lightning goes off screen
Comparing it to Aang the tip of that pillar that fell would be around 27 feet, lets just round it to 30 feet. It fell complete off screen so we'd know it would of fell at a bare minimum of 30 feet
For a boulder that's 30 feet tall would weigh around 130 tons, for it to fall 30 feet would take about 2 seconds
Now I'm going to just do a ball park estimate and compare to Ozai and lets say the distance is 2000 feet (and that's being EXTREMELY generous)
2000 feet / 2 seconds would roughly 1000 feet per second, just shy of sonic speeds
TLDR: Boulder falls 30 feet faster than Ozai's lightning traverses 2000 feet which would put it roughly in the sonic speed range
4:02 Ozai fires lightning at Aang
If you notice the top of one of the pillars gets knocked down and starts falling....it falls completely off screen before Ozai's lightning goes off screen
Comparing it to Aang the tip of that pillar that fell would be around 27 feet, lets just round it to 30 feet. It fell complete off screen so we'd know it would of fell at a bare minimum of 30 feet
For a boulder that's 30 feet tall would weigh around 130 tons, for it to fall 30 feet would take about 2 seconds
Now I'm going to just do a ball park estimate and compare to Ozai and lets say the distance is 2000 feet (and that's being EXTREMELY generous)
2000 feet / 2 seconds would roughly 1000 feet per second, just shy of sonic speeds
TLDR: Boulder falls 30 feet faster than Ozai's lightning traverses 2000 feet which would put it roughly in the sonic speed range
- 1,898
- 989
"Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed."
Going by what the rules say, it would be combat speed. I otherwise agree that Zuko can't travel that fast. The feat also hasn't been calced yet, so why don't we wait for that first.
- 8,997
- 9,718
- 173
- 107
Zuko running to catch Azula's lightning? That has been calced already. It's why they have their current ratings.
Bruh
He/Him- 1,485
- 1,409
And wasn't that calc not accepted, the comments under it said as much
- 4,020
- 2,608
Electricity itself is like Mach 1.7 so it would just be a result of incorrect artistic portrayal
- 173
- 107
A calc group member did accept it. That's why it was added to the pages. I guess people changed their minds later about using it, but nobody took it off the page, so idk.
- 339
- 154
Yeah sorry but if we're going to blame everything on "artistic portrayal" then that's setting a bad precedent
It doesn't matter anyway because even if we go with Ozai's lightning being mach 1.7 then that would still only put the verse at super sonic speeds
Definitely a far cry from the MHS wank
Bruh
He/Him- 1,485
- 1,409
I think it was accepted under the assumption that bender's lightning=natural lightning which has since become a point of contention and almost everyone including Therefir think it should not be treated as such
