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ATLA Speed Downgrade: It Is Time

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For the avatar state keys, we could just take a similar approach as how they are now and give them "at least MH+".

I'm struggling to think of any currently listed characters whose speed doesn't scale to all the others. Maybe Toph? She never did take on any of the main villains, aside from the times the gAang ganged up on Azula.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
huh? Thought he was off guard (and like shot in the spine area) at those times cuz he had no issue against Ozai and scales to Zuko who reacted to lightning multiple times.
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The one shot from Azula is kinda a problem for aang durability but not speed
Don't know what the other guy is on
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
I'm not talking about lightning bending. I'm talking about him not being able to bend natural lightning. Which he can't unless proven otherwise. The only scene in which he could have done so, or where even Zuko could have done so, is a redirection scene where they don't literally drag lightning from the sky to bend it.

The "reflect" is not bending. It is a technique that firebenders can do against lightning because of how their bodies function. He makes a chi pathway and has the lightning flow through it and out. That is not bending, where Chi is actively used to affect the environment or create elements. He is making a path for the lightning, not bending it.
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Wouldn't using your body to create a path way to redirect the lightning be considered some form of bending. don't dey literally call it lightning bending if I'm not mistaken ,it may not be as critical/ the user lacks complete control over the element they bend but they are still in some way bending the lightning vai their chi
"The reflection is not bending it is a technique fire benders use " bending in avatar is heavily Implied to be made up of different techniques and has different aspect to them.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
"irregular" =/= "can do flips, tricks, loops and bends as it pleases"

Lightning follows a path, and that path makes it jagged because it is irregular. Lightning bending how it does when it goes at Iroh is not natural.

Also, if that's the case, the entire feat is irrelevant and can't even be calculated since the initial shot should be disregarded. So there's nothing to imply Iroh ever moved before he caught the bolt. Meaning that the only feat of actual lightning in the show is null. How does not seeing anything from any perspective but a flawed one even remotely improve the likelihood of him reacting to that bolt of lightning
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Arnoldstone18 said:
We’ve moved on from the topic
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Shusss
 
At this point, we're about to upgrade everyone to MHS+ and we need to figure out who should or shouldn't scale to the value
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Avatar: Zuko Blocks Lightning

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

This calc has been rejected for a LONG time, yet is still on every single profile as justification for Massively Hypersonic reactions and combat speed for the verse. This is a clear oversight from the wiki, and I propose this calc be purged from every profile and an alternative one be created for them to scale to.

Also, some of the scaling for the profiles is circular and makes no sense., or is even just flat out wrong. Aang has his season 1 reactions because he scales to Korra, which is supported no where. But worse than that, Korra's reasoning has no scans or feats for it, and just says she can react to people that react to lightning, which is not what Aang's profile says about her.

Lightning bending must be proven to be the actual speed of lightning, and then a REAL scaling chain should be established for early Avatar characters other than vaguely scaling to Korra for no reason.

Lets get this started.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Zuko and Iroh (who also did it to protect a ship, I believe) channel genuine lightning in order to practice and defend against this kind of stuff? If so, that may be worth calculating.

Edit: It was in The Storm.

Edit 2: I didn't see this post. Nvm.
 
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BrackishBrineBroth said:
For the avatar state keys, we could just take a similar approach as how they are now and give them "at least MH+".

I'm struggling to think of any currently listed characters whose speed doesn't scale to all the others. Maybe Toph? She never did take on any of the main villains, aside from the times the gAang ganged up on Azula.
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Eh Toph can react to Azula and Mai in combat
 
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BrackishBrineBroth said:
Whelp; there goes my point. I think everyone in the verse scales to mh+ then.
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The first link doesn’t actually show Toph reacting to Azula, it was Sokka. Also, in this episode during the invasion, wasn’t Azula more or less just playing around with them? Azula’s whole strategy here was to toy around with them in a running away game to stall their out their time in finding Ozai before the eclipse was over with. Aang even commented on her being “too quick” when trying to catch and immobilize her (without her bending I’ll add)

The only reason Azula pretty much got tagged was because she purposely stopped to fight Sokka after getting him riled up about Suki being captured.

As for Mai, what reason do we have to consider her to scale to this?
 
Yeah, in Toph's case, she is still remarkably fast for Earthbender standards and she would need to be to make use of her Seismic sense. When I said Earthbenders were usually the least agile, the key word was "Usually" as there do exist exceptions such as Toph. She also has speed blitzed Katara and Aang in the sparring matches shown in the sequal comics. And she did keep up with Mai and Ty Lee as Maverick mentioned yeah.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
The first link doesn’t actually show Toph reacting to Azula, it was Sokka. Also, in this episode during the invasion, wasn’t Azula more or less just playing around with them? Azula’s whole strategy here was to toy around with them in a running away game to stall their out their time in finding Ozai before the eclipse was over with. Aang even commented on her being “too quick” when trying to catch and immobilize her (without her bending I’ll add)

The only reason Azula pretty much got tagged was because she purposely stopped to fight Sokka after getting him riled up about Suki being captured.

As for Mai, what reason do we have to consider her to scale to this?
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In the first scan Toph tackles Sokka out the way of one of Azula’s fire blasts.

Mai herself dodged an attack from Katara and was able to tag her with projectiles on one occasion. Plus she’s generally depicted as a threat to Team Avatar throughout the series.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, in Toph's case, she is still remarkably fast for Earthbender standards and she would need to be to make use of her Seismic sense. When I said Earthbenders were usually the least agile, the key word was "Usually" as there do exist exceptions such as Toph. She also has speed blitzed Katara and Aang in the sparring matches shown in the sequal comics. And she did keep up with Mai and Ty Lee as Maverick mentioned yeah.
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This I get, but the problem however comes down to her Seismic Sense as the OP mentioned since Tophs fighting style solely relies on feeling the vibrations of her opponents movements in order to discern where they are so she can fight against them.

Unless, do we just go with vibrations being MHS speed in Avatar?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
The first link doesn’t actually show Toph reacting to Azula, it was Sokka. Also, in this episode during the invasion, wasn’t Azula more or less just playing around with them? Azula’s whole strategy here was to toy around with them in a running away game to stall their out their time in finding Ozai before the eclipse was over with. Aang even commented on her being “too quick” when trying to catch and immobilize her (without her bending I’ll add)

The only reason Azula pretty much got tagged was because she purposely stopped to fight Sokka after getting him riled up about Suki being captured.

As for Mai, what reason do we have to consider her to scale to this?
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Aang's line there is some massive PIS to be honest, considering we see him using airbending to augment his running speed early in the series (a technique that shows up less and less often as the series progresses and I don't think it shows up at all in Korra.) Azula also has some plot armor to her as well, considering that Toph didn't just encase her feet into the ground when everyone confronted her at the end of The Chase. I've seen a reddit post complaining about how silly Aang's line as well.
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
Aang's line there is some massive PIS to be honest, considering we see him using airbending to augment his running speed early in the series (a technique that shows up less and less often as the series progresses and I don't think it shows up at all in Korra.) Azula also has some plot armor to her as well, considering that Toph didn't just encase her feet into the ground when everyone confronted her at the end of The Chase. I've seen a reddit post complaining about Aang's line as well.
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Fair. And my question for Mai got answered by the way, I wasn’t aware she head reacted to Azulas lightning in the comics
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I think that's a common issue in fiction; some characters have muscles that generate Massively FTL+ sound waves for instance. Vibrations are more or less the same way.
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Good point.
 
I think the last thing to discuss is whether Korra's AS should get an "at least" rating? As we talked about earlier, she's used it at a speed boost several times. Vaatu, Raava, and Unalaq's second and third keys should scale to that. Maybe Tokuga as well.

I don't think Aang's avatar state has shown to give him a speed boost, as comet Ozai was able to avoid him for a while, and Katara was able to dodge comet Azula.
 
I mean, it shouldn't hurt to apply the upgrades, I mean literally everyone is on the same page when it comes to their speed so I don't really understand why we're debating this
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
I don't think Aang's avatar state has shown to give him a speed boost, as comet Ozai was able to avoid him for a while
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The exact moment he goes into the Avatar state he sees Ozai’s attack in slow motion, and Ozai has some trouble dodging his attacks
He should get an “At least” as well. Besides there’s nothing indicating that the Avatar state from Korra is supposedly above Aang’s. They are all the same
 
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