ATLA Speed Downgrade: It Is Time

[BrackishBrineBroth]

There's still this calc which got accepted as high hypersonic at max. So having a lightning feat that's one speed rating ahead isn't too much of an outlier. And for those who say it doesn't scale to other characters, comet-enhanced Ozai was able to flee from Avatar state Aang for a while, and Katara, who wasn't enhanced at all, reacted to comet-boosted Azula's attacks.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The main issue is the redirecting part. The only time we see them interact with a natural source in ATLA and Korra is them pulling the energy towards them in an unnatural way, which wouldn't require MHS+ speed.

Oh okay,

If this is a claim then I disagree with the fact that the lightning is being pulled toward them.

Let's look at the Iroh example that was discussed not too long ago. If what you say is true then Iroh wouldn't be actively searching for lightning and moving in position to let it strike him.

The same concept of lightning redirection is not only used on natural sources but on discharge from benders themselves (since there is no shown distinction between bending natural and a fire bender"s lightning). If the concept of lightning bending involves the pull of lightning then Zuko would've just pulled the lightning toward himself rather than sprinting to catch it and benders wouldn't be actively trying to get in the discharge pathway of lightning to redirect it. So all these point to the fact that Iroh actively searched for and stood in the way of the discharge to redirect it.

The counter-argument to the Iroh example claims the lightning to be in an "unnatural" position and uses a shot that "helps" their argument. I responded by saying it doesn't make sense because Lightning moves in a jagged pattern and even if that's not the case there is a clear shot of the lightning moving naturally which I provided.

So while I do agree that pulling the energy doesn't require mhs speeds, I disagree that this was ever done in the verse.


Edit: I think i remember Zuko literally screaming to a lightning storm for lightning to strike him rather than making efforts to pull stray discharges towards himself so he can redirect it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Nothing I've seen in the verse is something that a powerful electrical current could not replicate

The big issue here is the electrical current. Lightning is fast because of current and environmental conditions. Just having a big enough blast to it and you can argue similar speeds.

I simply disagree with the stance that lightning bending should be considered real lightning when its showings are equivalent to what would happen at a voltage of 3k, not 100 million.

Lightning bending can def go above 3k volts when the user wants it to

The counter-argument to the Iroh example claims the lightning to be in an "unnatural" position and uses a shot that "helps" their argument. I responded by saying it doesn't make sense because Lightning moves in a jagged pattern and even if that's not the case there is a clear shot of the lightning moving naturally which I provided.

That shot you provided shows it arcing weirdly before and after it hit Iroh. And when its going for Iroh it drops down to hit him.

Natural lightning also seems to be effected easier. Zuko was sure he could get lightning to hit him by just standing on a cliff which doesn't make sense unless he can draw it towards him somehow.

There's still this calc which got accepted as high hypersonic at max.

An Avatar triggering a volcanic eruption by using a natural source doesn't scale to Aang just using fireballs. There's no cross scaling there.

Stuff like Explosion Man or Korra blocking an explosion would be more useable than that.

To kind of support the contradiction in speed, Naga can run in front of and catch an attack from the equalist mechs which can tag benders like Tenzin and Korra. We’d have to argue Naga runs at mhs speeds.

Yeah, that's my main point. The speed contradicts the series, which is the big glaring issue.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

There's still this calc which got accepted as high hypersonic at max. So having a lightning feat that's one speed rating ahead isn't too much of an outlier. And for those who say it doesn't scale to other characters, comet-enhanced Ozai was able to flee from Avatar state Aang for a while, and Katara, who wasn't enhanced at all, reacted to comet-boosted Azula's attacks.

How does that feat even make sense for speed? Is it trying to say he’s flinging the lava at such speeds? For all we know he just triggered the volcano to erupt then made it come down while it was erupting.

Also who accepted it? I don’t see any comments saying they accept it.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

There's still this calc which got accepted as high hypersonic at max. So having a lightning feat that's one speed rating ahead isn't too much of an outlier. And for those who say it doesn't scale to other characters, comet-enhanced Ozai was able to flee from Avatar state Aang for a while, and Katara, who wasn't enhanced at all, reacted to comet-boosted Azula's attacks.

"one speed rating ahead isn't too much of an outlier" my friend that is not how that works.

Also, isn't speed from kinetic energy banned

Oh okay,

If this is a claim then I disagree with the fact that the lightning is being pulled toward them.

Let's look at the Iroh example that was discussed not too long ago. If what you say is true then Iroh wouldn't be actively searching for lightning and moving in position to let it strike him.

The same concept of lightning redirection is not only used on natural sources but on discharge from benders themselves (since there is no shown distinction between bending natural and a fire bender"s lightning). If the concept of lightning bending involves the pull of lightning then Zuko would've just pulled the lightning toward himself rather than sprinting to catch it and benders wouldn't be actively trying to get in the discharge pathway of lightning to redirect it. So all these point to the fact that Iroh actively searched for and stood in the way of the discharge to redirect it.

The counter-argument to the Iroh example claims the lightning to be in an "unnatural" position and uses a shot that "helps" their argument. I responded by saying it doesn't make sense because Lightning moves in a jagged pattern and even if that's not the case there is a clear shot of the lightning moving naturally which I provided.

So while I do agree that pulling the energy doesn't require mhs speeds, I disagree that this was ever done in the verse.


Edit: I think i remember Zuko was also screaming for lightning to strike him rather than make an effort to pull it towards himself so he can redirect it.

Why are you arguing something so ridiculously late?

I already said that if he searched and predicted where the lightning would strike, that would make his feat less impressive. That gives evidence to him not being fast enough to react to the bolt, so he predicts it and begins his stance instead. The fact the bolt is faster than him on-screen supports this.

I don't understand what purpose you're attempting to get at by just further implying Iroh can't react to lightning.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Stuff like Explosion Man or Korra blocking an explosion would be more useable than that.

Got you covered.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Got you covered.

Cool

 

[Arnoldstone18]

That shot you provided shows it arcing weirdly before and after it hit Iroh. And when its going for Iroh it drops down to hit him.

Natural lightning also seems to be effected easier. Zuko was sure he could get lightning to hit him by just standing on a cliff which doesn't make sense unless he can draw it towards him somehow.

That brings me back to my former point which begs the question "why is that weird?"

Lightning has an irregular motion and a specific direction. Sometimes the main bolt can appear really straight or somewhat straight or even make ******* arcs during its travel in a specific direction.

Iroh only directed it outwards and the lightning did its thing basically.

 

[Maitreya12]

Yeah I can definitely use this thread as a basis for RWBY speed downgrades

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

I think fulfilling 3 out of the 6 requirements is pretty solid enough for lightning bending, considering that Iroh himself can bend cloud to ground lightning

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I think fulfilling 3 out of the 6 requirements is pretty solid enough for lightning bending, considering that Iroh himself can bend cloud to ground lightning

He can't bend cloud to ground lightning, just redirect it by making a chi pathway through his body, which is not bending.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He can't bend cloud to ground lightning, just redirect it by making a chi pathway through his body, which is not bending.

You act like Lightning bending has 5 moves. it's just shoot and reflect and you wanna take away the reflect.

What even makes you think its not bending anyway?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

You act like Lightning bending has 5 moves. it's just shoot and reflect and you wanna take away the reflect.

What even makes you think its not bending anyway?

I'm not talking about lightning bending. I'm talking about him not being able to bend natural lightning. Which he can't unless proven otherwise. The only scene in which he could have done so, or where even Zuko could have done so, is a redirection scene where they don't literally drag lightning from the sky to bend it.

The "reflect" is not bending. It is a technique that firebenders can do against lightning because of how their bodies function. He makes a chi pathway and has the lightning flow through it and out. That is not bending, where Chi is actively used to affect the environment or create elements. He is making a path for the lightning, not bending it.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Literally how Iroh describes it. It is not bending where you use your chi actively. You make the pathway and have the lightning follow it out your body. That's why it can literally kill you if you mess up, because it is not normal.

Edit: wrong video, fixed

 

[Qawsedf234]

Lightning has an irregular motion and a specific direction.

Lightning has an irregular path, but it doesn't go sideways or suddenly slam down on a shallower target.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Edit: wrong video, fixed

I was so lost

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

The Avatar legends core rulebook groups lightning generation and redirection under the same category and both of them are regarded as a bending subskill. The avatar extras call the scene where Iroh redirects lightning the "first" time we see him redirect lightning. What was the other time? When he fought Azula. The staff makes no distinction between the two.

Literally how Iroh describes it. It is not bending where you use your chi actively. You make the pathway and have the lightning follow it out your body. That's why it can literally kill you if you mess up, because it is not normal.

Edit: wrong video, fixed

No, it can kill you because it can pass through your heart, as he states in the video.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The Avatar legends core rulebook groups lightning generation and redirection under the same category and both of them are regarded as a bending subskill. The avatar extras call the scene where Iroh redirects lightning the "first" time we see him redirect lightning. What was the other time? When he fought Azula. The staff makes no distinction between the two.


No, it can kill you because it can pass through your heart, as he states in the video.

Yeah, its a bending subskill. It is not him literally bending it, it is an extrapolation on it.

He's manipulating his chi to be a pathway for the lightning to follow, rather than forcing the lightning out of himself or controlling it. Hence why it does not scale to his normal bending. It also says that only some of them can do this, further implying it does NOT SCALE TO ANYONE what you redirect.

Your interpretation of them saying "first" to mean "So Azula has the exact same power and speed as a lightning bolt cause he did her next and they said lightning so they're the same!" is more arbitrary than anything else you've said in this thread. They call lightning bending lightning all the time, that doesn't inherently remove the stigma I have for it.

Also a random picture with a number and words next to it means nothing to me. That looks like its from a wiki. Link the actual website or source, not a screenshot.

Yeah, almost like you're not bending it and can't stop it from doing that because the entire point of redirection is you are not bending it, you're letting it flow out of you making it not scale to actual bending.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lightning has an irregular path, but it doesn't go sideways or suddenly slam down on a shallower target.

Wdym? You just said it has an irregular path.

Although it is very possible for lightning to behave this way, I'd rather just let you know that there are literal shots of the lightning coming from above in that scene (We see Iroh pointing upwards to receive it + in the wider shot i provided earlier it shows it came from above as well) So idk why the first shot can't simply be disregarded or interpreted to be bad prespective shot or better... actually acknowledge the fact that the range of motion is possible.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Wdym? You just said it has an irregular path.

Although it is very possible for lightning to behave this way, I'd rather just let you know that there are literal shots of the lightning coming from above in that scene (We see Iroh pointing upwards to receive it + in the wider shot i provided earlier it shows it came from above as well) So idk why the first shot can't simply be disregarded or interpreted to be bad prespective shot or better... actually acknowledge the fact that the range of motion is possible.

"irregular" =/= "can do flips, tricks, loops and bends as it pleases"

Lightning follows a path, and that path makes it jagged because it is irregular. Lightning bending how it does when it goes at Iroh is not natural.

Also, if that's the case, the entire feat is irrelevant and can't even be calculated since the initial shot should be disregarded. So there's nothing to imply Iroh ever moved before he caught the bolt. Meaning that the only feat of actual lightning in the show is null. How does not seeing anything from any perspective but a flawed one even remotely improve the likelihood of him reacting to that bolt of lightning

 

[Arnoldstone18]

"irregular" =/= "can do flips, tricks, loops and bends as it pleases"

The bolt isn't even as exaggerated as you make it seem tho. It just "moved sideways" and made arcs. which is normal regardless of what you and i think.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Well, while I agree with the main point of the thread (lightning bending and especially Zuko running to intercept it) as not working for speed, it isn't because it doesn't meet our criteria. It meets enough to count, it just contradicts the franchise speed-wise and doesn't work with any other speed feat in the series.

Anyway, this is what we should be discussing instead tbh.

So what are the contradictions? @Kingofwolves999 and how many can be solved before we consider the true contraditions (if any left) as the minority.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

MHS+ Avatar was accepted in this old CRT which mentions the calc, and a discussion rule was even created from it:

Do not attempt to downgrade Avatar characters speeds as the characters were shown to normally master and react to natural lightning.

Though it is a weird oversight that the actual calc blog didn't get formally accepted.

I think the only real contradiction is Toph effectively using Seismic Sense to react to opponent movements and attacks via. vibrations.
Weapons and elements can be slightly downscaled from lightning so they shouldn't represent an issue.

And while Iroh's natural lightning feat has the lightning seemingly coming from a weird direction, we also see a different angle of the feat where the lightning bolt is clearly coming from above:

Which is consistent with Zuko wanting to practice his lightning redirection on with cloud-to-ground lightning, in other words he felt he could react to it.

Plus we have plenty of features of real electricity for Lightning Bending. The requirements are met to scale Lightning Bending to the full speed of cloud-to-ground lightning.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

MHS+ Avatar was accepted in this old CRT which mentions the calc, and a discussion rule was even created from it:

Do not attempt to downgrade Avatar characters speeds as the characters were shown to normally master and react to natural lightning.

Though it is a weird oversight that the actual calc blog didn't get formally accepted.

I think the only real contradiction is Toph effectively using Seismic Sense to react to opponent movements and attacks via. vibrations.
Weapons and elements can be slightly downscaled from lightning so they shouldn't represent an issue.

And while Iroh's natural lightning feat has the lightning seemingly coming from a weird direction, we also see a different angle of the feat where the lightning bolt is clearly coming from above:

Which is consistent with Zuko wanting to practice his lightning redirection on with cloud-to-ground lightning, in other words he felt he could react to it.

Plus we have plenty of features of real electricity for Lightning Bending. The requirements are met to scale Lightning Bending to the full speed of cloud-to-ground lightning.

The iroh feat was also just calced to be real lightning.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Anyway, this is what we should be discussing instead tbh.

So what are the contradictions? @Kingofwolves999 and how many can be solved before we consider the true contraditions (if any left) as the minority.

First off, you can't @ users unless you're staff, it doesn't work.

My main issue with lightning speed: How the hell does the Seismic Sense work at all if they're moving at these speeds.

Seismic Sense works by feeling vibrations through the Earth. If thats the case, lightning speed actions would be already hitting the opponent before the vibrations even hit their feet. Tophs entire fighting style revolves around vibrations, so are the vibrations that occur when they take a step faster than lightning? To the point of being basically instant and letting Toph statue them to know what they're doing?

My second issue: They call lightning bending "the worlds first form of electricity," which immediately means it is not the same as a lightning bolt.

Book 2 Episode 9: "Lightning bending: the Avatar World's first form of electricity." This statement is after the statement from "The Storm" of Iroh redirecting lightning being the "first time."

Link to statement, Line 43: https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Extras_(Book_Two:_Earth)#"Bitter_Work"

also more on "why didn't Zuko just bend a bolt down" -->"In this episode, Zuko and Aang have parallel stories. They both have "kung fu block". It's like writer's block. Kung fu is more accurately defined as a skill acquired through hard work." He literally has a block and can't do it.

MHS+ Avatar was accepted in this old CRT which mentions the calc, and a discussion rule was even created from it:

Do not attempt to downgrade Avatar characters speeds as the characters were shown to normally master and react to natural lightning.

Though it is a weird oversight that the actual calc blog didn't get formally accepted.

I think the only real contradiction is Toph effectively using Seismic Sense to react to opponent movements and attacks via. vibrations.
Weapons and elements can be slightly downscaled from lightning so they shouldn't represent an issue.

And while Iroh's natural lightning feat has the lightning seemingly coming from a weird direction, we also see a different angle of the feat where the lightning bolt is clearly coming from above:

Which is consistent with Zuko wanting to practice his lightning redirection on with cloud-to-ground lightning, in other words he felt he could react to it.

Plus we have plenty of features of real electricity for Lightning Bending. The requirements are met to scale Lightning Bending to the full speed of cloud-to-ground lightning.

The iroh feat was also just calced to be real lightning.

HHS+ is not real lightning, read the actual blog.

And that rule is horrendous, as no feats exist that are natural lightning reactions other than the Iroh one which isn't MHS+. I feel the need to challenge it since the entire basis for it would have to be the Iroh feat which is not the speed of lightning. Hell the waves behind Iroh are moving too, are the waves high hypersonic+? Katara's clothes are swaying in the wind when Zuko catches Azula's lightning, is the wind faster than lightning as well?

Having features of real electricity =/= lightning speed when electricity has its own speed on the wiki. Why not use electricity in place of lightning?

If the wiki is accepting it to be lightning speed based on those bare bones criteria and a contradictory feat, than there's nothing for me to do I suppose

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

And that rule is horrendous, as no feats exist that are natural lightning reactions other than the Iroh one which isn't MHS+. I feel the need to challenge it since the entire basis for it would have to be the Iroh feat which is not the speed of lightning. Hell the waves behind Iroh are moving too, are the waves high hypersonic+? Katara's clothes are swaying in the wind when Zuko catches Azula's lightning, is the wind faster than lightning as well?

Do you have any idea how many other verses this kind of logic could be applied to? I guess we should downgrade Naruto to superhuman cause in one of the novels he rode a motorcycle to catch up to someone.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I’m not heavily opinionated on the MHS ratings, though I have to agree that Lightningbending fits some of the criteria for being equated to actual lightning. Regardless it seems a downgrade is on the way so I’ll help gather notable feats for whatever alternative rating we go with.

Non-Lightningbending feats

• Aang reacts to arrows | The Blue Spirit
• [Travel speed] Aang runs on water | The Warriors of Kyoshi, The Serpent's Pass
• Zuko reacts to an arrow despite facing away from the shooter | The Desert
• Sokka dodges arrows | The Rift, Part 2
• Sokka swats an arrow | The Rift, Part 3
• Aang reacts to an explosion | The Beach
• Zuko reacts to and shields himself from an explosion in an attempted assassination
• Korra reacts to an explosion
  Toph reacts to an explosion
• Azula’s Lightningbending crosses over 1000 meters very quickly - Mach 12 | Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno
• Avatar Kyoshi moves an island via Airbending - Mach 15 | Avatar Day
• Iroh somewhat reacts to actual lightning - Mach 64.14 | The Storm
• Avatar Szeto’s Lavabending speed | The Avatar State

Lightningbending feats

• Iroh reacts to Azula’s lightning | The Avatar State
• Zuko redirects Ozai’s Lightning - Mach 1282.79 | The Day of Black Sun, Part 2: The Eclipse
• [Blatant Outlier due to depicting Zuko with absurd running speed] Zuko sprints in front of Azula’s lightning to intercept it | Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno
• Aang reacts to Ozai’s lightning multiple times during their showdown - Mach 2458 | Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno
• Katara dodges Azula’s lightning - Mach 1330 | Sozen’s Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang
• The Gaang reacts to Azula’s Lightning | Smoke and Shadow, Part 2
• Zuko reacts to Azula’s Lightbending and tries to redirect it, prompting her to redirect it back to hit him - Mach 262 to Mach 277 | Smoke and Shadow, Part 3
• Mai sidesteps Azula’s lightning - Mach 634 | Smoke and Shadow, Part 3
• Amon dodges lightning - Mach 1092 | The Revelation
• Suki ducks under a point-blank lightning bolt | Smoke and Shadow, Part 3

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

• Avatar Kyoshi moves an island via Airbending - Mach 15 | The Avatar State
• Iroh barely reacts to actual lightning - Mach 64.14 | The Avatar State
• Avatar Szeto’s Lavabending speed | The Avatar State

Minor nitpick, but only that last one is from the Avatar State. The first is from Avatar Day, and the second is from The Storm.

 

[Qawsedf234]

MHS+ Avatar was accepted in this old CRT which mentions the calc, and a discussion rule was even created from it:

Discussion rules can be overturned. Some of those rules are also massively out of date for example:

• Do not make Marvel Cinematic Universe revision threads discussing scaling Captain America to Iron Man from their fight in the "Civil War" movie, as this has been discussed many times before, and strongly contradicts the established scale of their respective feats.
• Refrain from scaling characters to the Hadron Enforcer. The weapon was only ever used on Ronan, and the feat has been deemed too inconsistent to be considered anything other than an Outlier. Scaling characters to this weapon would also cause too large inconsistencies throughout the entire verse.

Both things have been overturned

• Please refrain from trying to downgrade DOOM from 2-A via Davoth not being at full power. This has been discussed numerous times across a number of threads, and has been rejected by multiple sources.

Has been changed and for awhile we had out of date OPM stuff.

OP presents new evidence so dismissing it isn't correct.

 

[Emerald]

Zuko redirects Ozai’s Lightning | The Day of Black Sun, Part 2: The Eclipse

I calced that here

Avatar: The Last Airbender: Zuko redirects Ozai's lightning

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Arnoldstone18]

They call lightning bending "the worlds first form of electricity," which immediately means it is not the same as a lightning bolt.

Yes, Lightning is… a form of… electricity…

What is it supposed to be?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yes, Lightning is… a form of… electricity…

What is it supposed to be?

“The worlds first form of electricity”

They are referring to man-made electricity, not natural lightning.

Unless you’re trying to claim Lightning bending predates all natural phenomenon?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The quote immediately after that is talking about using it for light bulbs. It is very obviously referring to lightning bending as man-made electricity like circuitry and wiring, not lightning.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

what does lightning benders using their lightning to power shit have to do with it not being lightning speed

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wondering the same exact thing rn

---

“The worlds first form of electricity”

They are referring to man-made electricity, not natural lightning.

Unless you’re trying to claim Lightning bending predates all natural phenomenon?

Yeah it’s man made cuz a man can literally shoot lightning.

It’s just a comedic relief.

The quote immediately after that is talking about using it for light bulbs. It is very obviously referring to lightning bending as man-made electricity like circuitry and wiring, not lightning.

Again comedy.

Lightning is electricity regardless.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

what does lightning benders using their lightning to power shit have to do with it not being lighting speed

Because electricity has its own speed on the wiki that is way lower than the speed of lightning? So them calling it electricity, specifically in reference to man-made electricity, is a direct counter to the claims that it is actual lightning? Because that explains why it meets some but not all the criteria of lightning because its a weaker form of electrical current?

Yeah it’s man made cuz a man can literally shoot lightning.

It’s just a comedic relief.

Are you serious? Man-made electricity. Cars, lights, power plants, not "a guy made it." This isn't even an argument.

Comedy? That's the argument? Can you back that up? The joke they make is about "finding a lightbulb to power," not that lightning bending is the worlds first example of electricity. Their statement holds more weight than you just saying "nah they're joking" unless you can prove they are.

No duh lightning is electricity. That's not what they are calling lightning bending. The electricity they are referring to with their quote is specifically the electricity created through technology, which is not the same speed as lightning in open air.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

Because electricity has its own speed on the wiki that is way lower than the speed of lightning? So them calling it electricity, specifically in reference to man-made electricity, is a direct counter to the claims that it is actual lightning? Because that explains why it meets some but not all the criteria of lightning because its a weaker form of electrical current?

do you think electricity and lightning are 2 different things? lightning is just electricity in a specific circumstance, that speed value is just the baseline for regular electricity moving through air with no specific factors

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We had far too many discussions about Avatar's lightning, but it has far too much criteria to it being real lightning. Avatar has always consisted of the manipulation, control, and production of real elements so lightning being an exception would be very weird. As for how fast they move compared to the lightning, I will note is often a different story but Iroh absorbing real lightning and then firing it out is also consistent with how lightning bending works and that was more or less how he learned the technique of lightning redirection was by studying the properties of a lightning bolt. But it's also consistent for characters to showcase reaction speeds of dodging lightning bolts at point blank range, so the ballpark should remain consistent. I also don't consider struggling to react to arrows much of an anti-feat as superhuman characters are often capable of throwing objects at similar levels to their combat speed.

But I have too much going on at the moment combined with dealing with repeated topics, so hard for me to show elaboration at the moment.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

We had far too many discussions about Avatar's lightning, but it has far too much criteria to it being real lightning. Avatar has always consisted of the manipulation, control, and production of real elements so lightning being an exception would be very weird. As for how fast they move compared to the lightning, I will note is often a different story but Iroh absorbing real lightning and then firing it out is also consistent with how lightning bending works and that was more or less how he learned the technique of lightning redirection was by studying the properties of a lightning bolt. But it's also consistent for characters to showcase reaction speeds of dodging lightning bolts at point blank range, so the ballpark should remain consistent. I also don't consider struggling to react to arrows much of an anti-feat as superhuman characters are often capable of throwing objects at similar levels to their combat speed.

But I have too much going on at the moment combined with dealing with repeated topics, so hard for me to show elaboration at the moment.

And speaking of that arrow anit-feat, it happened while Aang was distracted anyways; as Maverick pointed out above, both Zuko and Sokka have feats of reacting to arrows.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

My main issue with lightning speed: How the hell does the Seismic Sense work at all if they're moving at these speeds.

It is a low showing, but it basically conflicts with anything several times faster than Mach 1, not just lightning. Any calc of a decent speed feat (ex. reacting to explosions) is likely to surpass it.

My second issue: They call lightning bending "the worlds first form of electricity," which immediately means it is not the same as a lightning bolt.

I think it is one of the joke comments not a serious lore comment:

Recap: When the spirits of yin and yang become unbalanced, a giant koi monster sprang out of the sea. So leave yin and yang to the professionals. Lightning bending: the Avatar World's first form of electricity. Now, if they could just figure out how to use it to power a light bulb ...

And from the context, it would seem to refer to man-made electricity. Natural lightning existed before Lightning Bending for sure.

Also, in the same episode they are commenting on, Zuko calls Lightning Bending "real lightning":

Zuko: Great, I'm ready to try it with real lightning! Iroh: What, are you crazy? Lightning is very dangerous! Zuko: I thought that was the point! You teaching me to protect myself from it! Iroh: Yeah! But I'm not going to shoot lightning at you! If you're lucky, you will never have to use this technique at all! Zuko: Well, if you won't help me, I'll find my own lightning.

And that rule is horrendous, as no feats exist that are natural lightning reactions other than the Iroh one which isn't MHS+. I feel the need to challenge it since the entire basis for it would have to be the Iroh feat which is not the speed of lightning. Hell the waves behind Iroh are moving too, are the waves high hypersonic+? Katara's clothes are swaying in the wind when Zuko catches Azula's lightning, is the wind faster than lightning as well?

A level of inconsistency in animation and art is normal. We don't expect a sonic boom every time something moves faster than sound; maybe it gets added in as a cool effect in sakuga or something.
Here we have scene inconsistency throughout cuts (lightning coming from a weird angle -> lightning coming from above), so I don't think statuing objects for a more realistic depiction of speed was a priority.

Do you argue that the lightning was subsonic in the Zuko/Azula slomo (because clothes are swaying and flames are flickering), and then suddenly became much faster when Zuko fumbled its redirection it to the sky? After all, in the redirection scene we see it crossing the diameter of the Fire Nation Capital in less than a second:

And even if the authors behind the scenes underestimated how fast lightning is, it is fine as authors often make characters faster and stronger than they expected.

Having features of real electricity =/= lightning speed when electricity has its own speed on the wiki. Why not use electricity in place of lightning?

Per the wiki's lightning standards, we are allowed to scale non-cloud lightning magic attacks to the speed of natural cloud-to-ground lightning, given that the magical lightning showed a few properties of real electricity, and the characters are able to output 1.6 billion Joules (close to baseline 8-C) or a voltage of 100 million Volts.

Personally, I don't think there is enough inconsistency or conflict that we shouldn't scale the Lightning Bending to cloud-to-ground lightning speed.

Discussion rules can be overturned. Some of those rules are also massively out of date for example:

Agree, just providing context for why the calc got widely used in the profiles.