AtLA Revisions (Korra too)

[LoudCloud]

well, first it contradicts the plot.
also, korra cant make water out of nowhere.

also, doesnt that game enable to enter giant korra form without its requirements/prep?

i mean, you COULD take SOME of the stuff from the game (which doesnt change anything rly) that doesnt contradict with common sense and the avatar series rules - like she cant spam waterbending with no water, unless she learns ninjutsu...

1. Making water from nowhere is simply a gameplay mechanic to balance out the bending.

2. She enters the giant form in a hallucination caused by the villain. It takes place in her mind.

I've completed the game and yeah, it seems to be canon.

Both the original writers wrote it, they talk about how important making it represent the series was (characters, settings, events etc.) in interviews, the other developers did research to make sure it stayed accurate to the show, character dialogue mentions past/current events (Korra and Mako breaking up, Tenzin's family coming back from the Southern Water tribe on holiday, the White Wolfbats returning to probending after having theur bending restored by Korra and more) etc. It has a suprisingly high attention to detail for a beat-em-up.

The only "inconsistencies" are simply gameplay mechanics like using waterbending away from water and certain enemies having pallete swaps of each other.

 

[The_great_ZZ]

We could consider the LoK video game a What-If story

 

[The_Everlasting]

I agree with LoudCloud. Nothing beyond gameplay mechanics makes the LoK video game non-canon. It's a companion piece in the same way The Clone Wars and Rebels are companion pieces to the Star Wars movies.

 

[Ryukama]

If the original creators wrote the game, people involved took extensive measures to make the continuity fit and is meant to take place between the events of the show then I believe it is safe to consider it canon. This is clearly something much different than the DB or Naruto games.

And of course there will be game mechanics that contradict things as the game needs to be playable. It's the game's actual story that counts. We don't make Mario, Sonic and Kirby 10-C going by what happens during gameplay rather give them their tiers due to the stories.

 

[SomebodyData]

Unless there is a statement in the series referring to it or WoG, I believe it counts as secondary canon, which still works quite well in this case.

 

[Ragazz]

as long as it makes sense, it can be usable,

except for the things that dont make sense

then i agree.

i mean i dont care that much if the plot is canon, what is important for me is that the abilities are canon.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that the game can be considered as canon then.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Here. Higher than expected.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. As usual, you can ask here for an evaluation:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/549708

 

[LoudCloud]

I think base Korra being scaled to Hundun (the final boss of the game) might result in an upgrade. They even mention he was defeated by another Avatar 1000 years prior.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Did that said avatar slip into Avatar mode or not? That is the main question.

Still, I'm not really sure about the calc that I did above. Considering that Korra could barely block an explosion that was moving at Mach 3 or something, the value I got above calc seems rather high?

 

[LoudCloud]

For the Avatar 1000 years ago, it isn't mentioned. But Korra could keep up and harm him in her base, before stomping him in Avatar mode. So I'd say base Korra scales.

 

[GreatestSin]

since this seems to be a general avatar thread i want to point a few things out:

1. why does this guy: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ghaza get building lvl AP? his lava was environment destruction, im sure if someone calced the biggest piece of mass which he melted than we can get a form of AP for him from that, but the current reasoning doesnt seem to make much sense...

2. why is this guy: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Combustion_Ma as small building lvl? the calc that got linked is this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Combustion_Man_destroys_a_bolder and it says that the guy is room lvl, not small building lvl...

3. P,li: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/P'Li got small building lvl AP scaled from combustion man which already has a questionable stat...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'll get to Ghazan later, but room and small building are the same thing.

 

[Ragazz]

now with korra getting an upgrade via scaling - i disagree, what EXACTLY does she scale from? that floating island wasnt dropped on korra's head.

and dont start with the bcs he has such power and korra fought him

here is an example: imagine me bending up that island, some kid suddenly comes and shanks me, i fall to the ground. now a random kid suddenly scales to me bending an island?

he WOULD scale if i used that island against him, like dropping it on him and he survives (durability scaling), or he bends the whole thing away (power/AP scaling)

i can have all the power in the world, but if i dont use all that power on that kid, then he doesnt scale in any way. the only feat that kid gets, is that he is able to pierce skin with a knife. and the only feat for me is that im a sore loser.

also, if you defeat a character, it doesnt mean that ure more powerful than him.

 

[LoudCloud]

He was using his powers to lift it, which according to this wiki means they scale (as Link scales to Majora using its magic on the moon).

 

[Ragazz]

He was using his powers to lift it, which according to this wiki means they scale (as Link scales to Majora using its magic on the moon).

did that island affect korra in any direct way?

 

[LoudCloud]

Not really, but neither did the moon in Majora's mask effect Link. It's more about how Hundun has enough power to do a feat like that and Korra still beat him.

 

[Ragazz]

Not really, but neither did the moon in Majora's mask effect Link. It's more about how Hundun has enough power to do a feat like that and Korra still beat him.

exactly, that might go by this wiki's rules, but it goes against logic. i hope that someday this wiki will think over this rule, bcs more and more profiles tend to mislead people.

 

[LoudCloud]

If you can apply so much force with your powers on one thing (the moon/land) why not the other (Link/Korra)? Unless of course, it's shown/stated/implied that those powers don't transfer (eg. some weather manipulators mostly just do environemental damage).

In this case it's either an Earthbending feat (Hundun is an Earthbender) or magic, both of which logically scale as he uses them against Korra in their fight. If Hundun is capable of lifting that much with his powers, why doesn't he use that to defeat Korra?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Isnt that with just lifting strength and nothing else? In fact, I think it should be noted that Earthbending shouldnt automatically be looked at as AP as its merely an ability to control or fight with earthly materials or rather Environemental Destruction. It doesnt, or rather shouldnt, mean anything for their AP unless they used their bending in actual attacks. Examples: .

Even regular average earth benders can cause avalances or mudslides using their bending. Doesnt make them City Block Level does it? Hell, even Toph, who is a far better/stronger bender than average earth benders and is only rated at 8-C, has a feat of stopping a Library building from falling down, (which may be one of the reasons she is 8-C to begin with) yet she couldnt escape from a Wooden Jailcell in The Runaway.

Also, IIRC, lifitng something doesnt mean its the same as applying the same force when striking something and there is no evidence of Hundan being capable of putting equally/stronger force in his attacks then he did when lifting that island.

 

[LoudCloud]

I'm not too sure about the Earthbending thing, but your point about it being lifting strength does make sense.

There's still the Avatar state feats she has though.

 

[Ragazz]

why doesn't he use that to defeat Korra? - yeah, ask him. why didnt he drop it on her head? sense or not, but he didnt.

katara could slice steel, and move ships with her waterbending, ty lee came and soloed her in several seconds. so, can ty lee move ships and cut steel with her jabs? i doubt it, the only thing she can do is chi blocking, olympic agility and normal human str.

the point is, if some1 defeats u, it doesnt necessarily mean that they are more powerful.

korra, who had mastered 3 elements, got soloed by a single chi blocker fodder, does that make the fodder like building or whatever level?.

i will only accept direct scaling.

for example. if one character (x) knocks out an elephant with a single punch, then when x and y have a serious fight and they clash fists and result in a stalemate. then i will agree that character y scales to character x.

 

[Stewrt]

I agree with most of this except the speed. How powerful is the Avatarverse is compared to other Battle anime?

 

[GreatestSin]

I'll get to Ghazan later, but room and small building are the same thing.

isnt there still a difference? 2.092x107 to 1.046x109

and the output of boom-man is at 1.08*10^8 :/

 

[LoudCloud]

I'm just a little confused about the Hundun thing. Aren't characters' AP calculated all the time here by planet-moving feats? So why not an Earthbending/Magic feat when moving that rock? If it only counts as a lifting strength feat then so be it I guess.

And Katara vs Ty Lee is a terrible example. Ty Lee won because of superior speed, hax (chi blocking), Katara's low durability in relation to her AP and the obvious fact Katara didn't have enough water around her to perform feats like her ship-moving ones. The same goes for the chi-blocker fodder, who won because of chi-blocking hax.

And as I've said there are still the Avatar-state feats she has in the game. I'll request them to be calced.

 

[Ragazz]

superior speed - like athletic human.

same doest logically go for the chi blocker fodder. to get hits in, he has to dominate, korra having like supersonic reactions and ap way beyond fodder, got dominated.

i would be okay for hundun to scale for that island earthbending, but the problem is that you people would be scaling korra to hundun, despite korra not having to deal with the floating island. if hundun lost with all that (potencial) power, then only bcs hes a fool or a failure.

 

[LoudCloud]

Ty lee clearly avoided Katara's attacks so she should scale. Why she only has athletic human level speed on this wiki is beyond me. She easily one of the fastest characters in the original show.

The chi-blocker also dominated Korra and Mako in terms of speed. So they too would scale. Korra's AP is irrelevant since she too slow to hit the fodder in the first place.

Hundun almost defeated Korra but she activated Avatar state last second and roflstomped him. But before that they were pretty evenly matched. Hundun used earthbending (on closer inspection it's probably his magic due to the green glow) to lift the rock they were on so they'd have a smaller area to fight in/Korra wouldn't run away.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I am still concerned in regards to whether we should treat Azula's lightning as having real lightning speeds, as the risk of the feat being an outlier is high.

This is because Korra, an avatar, barely reacted to an explosion, which was calculated to be Supersonic+ or something.

Now, for the AP of a chi blockers, perhaps we can scale them from Korra's physical strength and scale the chi blockers from there. However, since chi blockers rely on hitting specific targets of a person instead of direct force, it could be that they can still disable targets without their AP being as high as said target's durability.

This is because there are martial arts techniques in real life where you don't have to apply that much force in order to incapacitate someone.

Now, where does Korra stand at in terms of physical strength, without any bending abilities?

 

[LoudCloud]

I wouldn't say the chi-blockers scale to Korra AP-wise since chi blocking is basically hax in the avatar-verse. I was just bringing them up to explain to Ragazz how his idea of scaling was a bit off.

As for the lightning the "every other element manipulated in the show is the actual natural element so why shouldn't that apply to lightning?" argument makes sense, but I'd say we need more concrete reasoning than that. There are quite a few similarities between firebender lightning and real lightning:

- Iroh can redirect real lightning with exact same technique he uses to redirect firebender lightining so they probably have the same properties.

- Same goes for the fact that firebender lightning is said to stop someone's heart like real electricty.

- And the fact that it can conduct through a person.

- Mako's lightning is conducted in water, also like real lightning.

- Mako used his lightning to overload the Colossus' core which was being powered by electricity.

- Mako aborbs a Mecha Tanks electricity and uses it with lightning bending.

And mentioning how Korra "barely reacted to an explosion" seems like an anti-feat to me.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Remember that striking strength doesn't always have to match AP, as striking strength usually depends on how hard he/she can hit using his fists/kicks etc.

However, you are right about chi blocking being similar to hax in the avatar verse, as you don't need to have too much strength in order to incapacitate someone using specific striking techniques. Their movement speed would indicate that they should be way above peak human when it comes to conditioning however.

I am just wondering where Korra stands at physically without her bending abilities. Like, can her punches and kicks break through walls and stuff?

 

[LoudCloud]

I am just wondering where Korra stands at physically without her bending abilities. Like, can her punches and kicks break through walls and stuff?

Funny you should mention that. In the video game I was just discussing, there are parts where she's forced to use hand-to-hand combat. She can take on fodder like... chi-blockers. But not much else.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Then you can scale Korra's physical strength to the chi blockers or something since Korra is comparable to the Chi Blockers physically (without bending)

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wouldnt Chi Blocking basically be the Gentle Fist Style of the Avatarverse, only on a lower level?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

With Chi Blocking, unless you have a person with avatar powers, your nlt getting your bending powers back

With the Gentle fist, it only blocks someone's charka points for a certain amount of time

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I think your mixing it up with Amon-only hax. Chi Blocking does not permanently remove bending. They have showcased this many times in the series.

Katara, Toph, Mako, Korra (before she got energybending), and others have had gotten hit with chi blocking and all got their bending back after a while.

 

[Ragazz]

scaling to katara, that is funny are there any calculations for katara's close combat speed? if not, then its athlethic human at best, to which ty lee scales, but it doesnt mean anything, since ty lee is an athletic human anyway. and she dodged those bcs of her agility, mostly. bending attacks are at the speed of a throwing weapon, anyway.

lets put them into vs battle, what do we get:

katara ap - wall level at her weakest. ty lee durability - street level. damage needed to taker her down? check.

ty lee ap doesnt matter here, since she is a close combat chi blocker - damage needed to take katara down? check.

ty lee speed - athlethic human/slightly superhuman maybe. katara - supersonic+. ty lee never gets close and gets blitzed herself? check. so ty lee cant apply chi blocking? check.

so, ty lee cant get close and katara has enough ap to deal with ty lee? check. ty lee gets fodderised? check. was it so? uncheck. ty lee dodged with her agility, since bending attacks have the speed of a throwing weapons, which also katara couldnt react to. so yeah, scales to athlethic human katara. ty lee is 10-A, and katara is 9-B at her weakest, but got owned.

point is - a character can beat another character despite being weaker/inferior. that happens in fiction SOOO MANY TIMES.

except for dbz, where the only way to win is to be stronger than the enemy. but not all of the fiction is dbz.

now for korra vs chi blocker - peak human chi blocker fodder at best, vs korra, who mastered 3 elements and atleast 3 martial arts, is physically stronger and faster (atleast technically) than the chi blocker and her better reactions.

on a vs battle it would be like this: korra reks him in long range, and even if somehow he survives, and somehow gets close, korra would still beat him in h2h, due to being stronger, faster and better reactions, and even better at martial arts. chi blocking is dangerous, but you have to get the hits in to make it work. against some1 who is stronger, faster and better reactions with better martial arts? no.

if anything scales in those instances, then its only down-scaling wise.

if you dont see my point, then never try saying that korra has any competence in h2h. (althouth i do believe she is reasonably competent)

as i said, hundun is a fool and a loser, but yeah, i do agree korra scaling to a large building hundun.

so that korra couldnt run away - flying is a thing for korra. as i said, hundun is a fool. and many enemies lose bcs of their mindset, arrogance, or being incompetent in general. there are many reasons why characters lose.

korra will only legitimately scale to the flying island when she bends it away or something.

 

[LoudCloud]

Oh man.

"bending attacks are at the speed of a throwing weapon, anyway." - If characters like Korra can block explosions in time but get hit by bending attacks, then no, they're far faster than real-life throwing weapons.

"ty lee durability - street level. damage needed to taker her down? check." - Implying Katara could hit Ty lee with it. And if she did and Ty lee survived, it would make Ty Lee scale.

"damage needed to take katara down? check." - Yes, because chi-clocking is a hax. If there are hax, powerscaling doesn't usually work, everyone knows this.

"bending attacks have the speed of a throwing weapons, which also katara couldnt react to" - But just a second ago you said Katara was supersonic+? So which one is it? You can't just make stuff up to fit your narrative.

"point is - a character can beat another character despite being weaker/inferior. that happens in fiction" - You just compared a character who uses hax and has enough speed to dodge the other ones attacks. She is only weaker by AP and possibly durability, otherwise Ty lee has the clear advantage here. This is a terrible example of a weaker character taking on a stronger one because 99% of fights in fiction don't have hax.

"is physically stronger and faster (atleast technically) than the chi blocker and her better reactions." - If the chi-blocker dodged her attacks so easily, he is not slower than her. Why are you making stuff up out of nowhere? How do you even know Korra is faster because the fight clearly shows otherwise.

"flying is a thing for korra" - In avatar state. Which she wasn't in.

Stop. Making. Things. Up.

Your rhetoric is the equivalent of "Well Superman got beat by Shazam and Shazam is totally weak so that means weak characters can beat strong characters".

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with LoudCloud. In addition, we tend to scale by the highest feats, not the lower anti-feats.

 

[Ragazz]

this is what happens when you dont want to understand