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AtLA Revisions (Korra too)

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Also, a street boxer, the person doing it in the video, can bend lightning. It's not an elite technique. Just a skilled one.

IIRC it was an elite technique back in the ATLA series, not anymore in TLOK. I suppose since a lot of time has passed, the technique was better developed and a lot more people could learn it.
 
I agree with everything except the speed upgrades as I am on the fence of that.

Excluding the matter on whether or not the Lightning is real, wasnt another reason it wasnt accepted because of it making massive outliers? Since each bender specializes in a different element and like that of said elements, each bender has different fighting styles and upgrading everyone and their mother would result in outlandish results?

Also @Cal regarding your "benders bend all forms of elements"statement such as waterbenders bending blood, earthbenders bending metal, airbenders bending the air out of peope and so on, while that IS true, it doesnt apply to just any average bender of an element. These feats are done by benders who have done extreme amounts of training and bending practice to perform.

For bloodbending, it took Hama like a year to even create the ability in the first place. And both she and Katara needed the power of the full moon in order to bloodbend. Not to mention Amon and Tarlok needing to do even morea advanced training to bloodbend without the moon.

For metalbending, Toph herself while a natural, for others they needed training in order to acomplish the ability and this is assuming they even have the potential to do so. Bolin is a strong earth bender and he couldnt metalbend to save his life. And Korra herself even needed some practice instead of just instantly getting it. Not even Aang was ever capable of doing metalbending. Plus wasnt there a specific clan revealed in LoK in which only they could metalbend besides korra?

For bending the air out of people, that is completely something only Zaheer was ever skilled enough to perform in. If any airbender could do this they would have done it against the fire nation and not become exctinct.

My point is, while it is something benders can do, it can only apply to benders who are highly skilled. If you were including this as a part of your point, my biggest applogies. If not, then....I just pointed it out :p

PS: Aang didnt have a shield when Azula shocked him he was only floating. And Korra wasnt poisoned in the fight, she was given the posion before she even started fighting Zaheer. It only effected her later on.
 
@Scarlet. I mean, the same could be said about metal bending. Toph was nothing truly special except from coming from a wealthy family. She demonstrated just being a darn good earthbender.

@Dragon. Anyone who scales to Zuko

@Kukui. I understand your point. Though I was more speaking of the whole including the higher ups than just everyone on average.
 
ScarletFirefly said:
Wasn't there that episode where Iroh redirected lightning from a storm using his hands? If this was the case, wouldn't it be a supporting proof for this post? I mean, since Iroh can redirect real lightning, he should be bending real lightning.
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The problem with this is that it may be an outlier. I forgot the episode name but in that episode where everyone was being chased by Azula and got no sleep, Azula was able to hit and knock out Iroh in an instant with just a plain fire attack, which surely shouldnt be as fast as chi lighting, especially if its real.
 
That was more of a sucker punch than anything else. And their normal attacks aren't that much slower if I'm claiming that their reactions are like that. Otherwise, no one would get hit by anything but lightning.
 
The real cal howard said:
@Kukui. I understand your point. Though I was more speaking of the whole including the higher ups than just everyone on average.
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If you mean every single bender who's above average by a good degree, then yeah I agree. I just didnt know if you were including benders who are just average fodder and my bad if you werent.
 
@cal: In Legend of Korra Lightning bending became more common, but in The Legend of Aang it was and elite skill. According to Avater wiki this is even mentioned explicitly in the Artbook.

All in all lightning bending is simply a very powerful ability.


As said with the conductivity you have a point.

Was ever something in regards to electrical machines shown in Korra?


@Aparajita: Because lightning more often than not is energy beams.

Air, Earth and water are commonly taken from the sourroundings so there hardly is any doubt about them being real.

The thing is for those four it doesn't matter, since they don't have any stat related properties (except fire colour and heat in which case it would be actually debated wether that is an magical fire or not).

For something stat related we actually have to figure out whether it is supernatural in order to reason to other natural properties. As said the other elements would be debated as well, if there was any reason to.

The fact that the rest of the elements showing element properties isn't impressive as those properties are a lot more basic. More importantly hat reasoning is like saying "a verse showed one ability can produce something with the properties that one would scientifically expect, hence every ability in the verse has those". That is not valid reasoning.


Iroh doesn't talk about electrons and protons. He talks about the energies around them, yes, but those energies can, in the given mythological believe of the verse, be the energies of nature, specifically they are yin and yang. The energies of the moon (yin) and the ocean (yang) are for example actively represented of such energies shown in the verse, which can power bending. (in this case they power water bending)

In that sense, that there are balances between yin and yang is also a common concept in series that incoporate such concepts.
 
@DT. There were shock gloves. And those were common in the non-bending fighters, but other than that, don't know.
 
I dont think it was more a sucker punch or anything like that. Im rewatching the scene rn (I can give u a link if you want).

Aang, Sokka, Katara, Zuko, Toph and Iroh are all corning Azula and are all (well Iroh anyway) are in fighting stances to try to counter anything Azula would have done, as well as having their focus and full attention fixated on Azula. In other words they werent looking away, distracted or anything and he still got hit by it without being able to properly react to it. (not to mention, from the way it appears the others also didnt even know Azula attacked Iroh until after he was hit). As skilled as Iroh is he should have had no issues reacting to Azula when he's at least completely focused on her if he could really react to her. In addition, even if we can prove chi lightning is real lightning, what reason would their be for any other bending element to be anywhere near as fast? Lightning bending, if anything, would be the literal only feat in Avatar that would be hypersonic - MHS.
 
Also, DT, could you please humor me and calc Zuko saving Katara from Azula's lightning? I'd love to do it, but I have no earthly idea where to start. Sorry if that's asking too much of you.
 
Found the episode. Season 1 Episode 3. Firebenders generating lightning to create electric currents for the city's industrial district. Can't link it sorry.
 
@Kukui. That sounds like jobbing, because its later implied that Iroh is the only person besides Aang who has a shot at taking down boosted Ozai. Not to mention Azula's not weak.

Because people like Zuko and Aang and Katara can react to the lightning, but can be tagged by other attacks, even fists in Katara's case. Also, with that logic, Lucario wouldn't be MHS too, because his attacks shouldn't be anywhere near Pikachu's lightning.
 
well since it's not real life situation and it's usually done for plot sake I would say you should consider that characters don't always dodge attacks they should have no problems at dodging.
 
The real cal howard said:
@Kukui. That sounds like jobbing, because its later implied that Iroh is the only person besides Aang who has a shot at taking down boosted Ozai. Not to mention Azula's not weak.
Because people like Zuko and Aang and Katara can react to the lightning, but can be tagged by other attacks, even fists in Katara's case. Also, with that logic, Lucario wouldn't be MHS too, because his attacks shouldn't be anywhere near Pikachu's lightning.
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Wasnt that just more hype than concrete? Because didnt Iroh himself say he wasnt sure if he could compare to Ozai? I may be wrong as im just going off of memory. And while Azulai isnt weak, she at that time surely wasnt on Irohs level. He was able to beat her rather easily in the beginning of Book 2 and that was long before Toph even joined the group.

Good point. But wouldnt the difference between Lucario and that is that Lucario doesnt just react to Pikachu's attacks, but he is capable of stomping him too? Like Korrina's?
 
He said (and I'm gonna paraphrase a little) "Even if I defeated Ozai, and I'm not saying that I would,...history would see it as a brother killing another for power." But everyone knew he was the best chance. Goku wasn't sure that he could take down Frieza.
 
The real cal howard said:
He said (and I'm gonna paraphrase a little) "Even if I defeated Ozai, and I'm not saying that I would,...history would see it as a brother killing another for power." But everyone knew he was the best chance. Goku wasn't sure that he could take down Frieza.
Click to expand...
Ahh kk I see. Tho for Goku to be fair he also wasnt sure if he'd ever sporut golden hair and open up a can of stomp onto Frieza :p
 
The great ZZ said:
Didn't someone make a calc on that and the result was subsonic.
Click to expand...
The calc was, yes, but he's able to redirect natural lightning using the same method that he uses to create his own. That was the point of the video.
 
Aparajita said:
The calc was, yes, but he's able to redirect natural lightning using the same method that he uses to create his own. That was the point of the video.
Click to expand...
So redirecting real lightning makes you able to create real lightning?
 
Even if his lightning isn't real the fact that he redirected real lightning is enough to at least support his reactions.
 
If he can redirect real lightning, it means he can control it's flow through his body. It's the exact principle for creating lightning when bending.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I only have one question regarding the redirecting of it since its been a while ive watched Avatar.

Has Iroh done this more than once?
Click to expand...
Vs Azula.
 
I consider lightning as energy beams, and how can we tell that it moves fast as real lightning, just seems that people want to put Avatar characters on Shonen battle orientated series.
 
Lennystewart said:
I consider lightning as energy beams, and how can we tell that it moves fast as real lightning, just seems that people want to put Avatar characters on Shonen battle orientated series.
Click to expand...
What evidence do you have that it's not natural lightning?
 
After taking a look through that thread again, im still uncertain. For those who are clinging to Iroh's statement on whether the lighting is real or not, here's this I found (quoting others comments):

"Oda also said logia devil fruits are natural elements, but dodging Enel's lightning wouldn't make Nami MHS+. Iroh's statement can't be used here for the sake of fairness to other verses"

Also this in response to that comment:

"Enel and Nami are from One Piece. Enel is a logia devil fruit user who can turn his entire body into lightning. However we don't use Enel's lightning as real lightning for combat, nor we use Kizaru's (a light devil fruit user) laser beam as real light. Otherwise Zoro would be FTL Pre Timeskip if we take Oda's words for granted. We use the same standard for every verse, I'm failry certain Lightning bending in Avatar is the same as Enel's lightning bolts"

That thread also mentioned something about how the elements in Avatar are more depicted as magical than real with both positive/negative energy as, for example, Zuko was no longer able to bend fire because instead of relying on rage (negative energy), he relied on goodness (positive energy). As well as also mentioning stuff about Cinematic Timing and how Avatar Characters were more consistently shown at slower speeds than this, normal people being able to see the characters movements and how upgrading a whole verse based on one feat wasnt logical.

As well as this statement:

"The burden of proof is not on the wiki to prove that the lightning is not actual lightning, it is on the people who wish to edit this wiki to prove that the lightning is real. Just because there is polarity involved in avatar's explanation of lightning does not mean it is actual lightning. Furthermore, lightning is essentially plasma - channeling plasma through your body is a pretty bad idea and non-consistent with how firebenders utilize their own heat. So no, the burden of proof for bending lightning from the body=actual lightning is nowhere close to met. You can say it is electricity maybe, but not lightning."

So what do we make of these?
 
Some of the arguments in that thread were so flawed that it was literally not funny. Keep in mind that this sarcasm and anger isn't towards you.

Take one look at Borsalino's page and you see that we do treat his light as real light. Same with Enel. Just that it's travel speed for them. And the idea that anyone Zoro reacting to it, or anyone, is such a hilarious outlier (mach 200 approx to mach 874030), let alone Nami.

Upgrading a verse on one feat. In advance. Yeah. Sure. Because Pikachu sure had feats nearing Mach 808. DB characters sure had Solar System feats. Mario surely had other MFTL+ feats. Kirby surely had more than one (possibly two) MSS feats. Atomic Samurai clearly had more than one high MHS+ feat. Luffy was easily an island buster prior to his 2 gigaton feat. Clearly Zygarde's Sub-Rel feat was performed by anyone comparable to him.

Normal characters perceiving them. This part is what pissed me off the most. Everyone and their mother can perceive Huey Freeman. Or Popeye. Humans can perceive freaking Arceus. Anyone worth their salt in DB can perceive Goku. Heck, Krillin was even fighting Goku last episode.

Burden of proof. I provided proof, and people found it reasonable. Next. Also I because of my proof, I disproved the energy part of it. Because said energy is tied heavily into the elements and lore of the verse. Unless they want to argue that clearly that earth was energy and not real earth.

Channeling plasma through the body is a bad idea. Flawed argument right there. Freezing yourself is a bad idea. Shooting fire from your hands is a bad idea. Shooting giant planet busting energy beams is a bad idea. Breathing in a towns worth of poison is a bad idea. Fighting higher dimensional characters is a bad idea. News flash. This is fiction.
 
The real cal howard said:
Some of the arguments in that thread were so flawed that it was literally not funny.
Keep in mind that this sarcasm and anger isn't towards you.
Click to expand...
YOU BETRAYED ME!!!

Nah JK ik you werent aiming it at me xD.
 
I seem to recall that when Mako shot lightning in LoK, it was conducted through water to give a shock to an opponent.
 
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